Leaf Trimming - To Trim, or not to trim, that is the question!
- Thread starter f6r
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budeboy22
Member
I started a simialer thread a little bit ago the truth is u should not trim if you are just growing a good old natural plant if it doesnt need some leaves they will die off as it grows
now there are many opinions on increasing usable bud production (big buds not little popcorn buds) by trimming off the small popcorn bud sites when starting flowering i would love to see some experiments done on this but it would be tricky if not impossible to prove since there are so many variables in growing anything let alone to identical pot plants to experiment with wich is impossible so i guess the point is trimming is all personal prefrance or just done out of necessity for clearance or mabye even damaged or diseased sections of plant i hope this helps some sorry for the rambling way i write lol...
now there are many opinions on increasing usable bud production (big buds not little popcorn buds) by trimming off the small popcorn bud sites when starting flowering i would love to see some experiments done on this but it would be tricky if not impossible to prove since there are so many variables in growing anything let alone to identical pot plants to experiment with wich is impossible so i guess the point is trimming is all personal prefrance or just done out of necessity for clearance or mabye even damaged or diseased sections of plant i hope this helps some sorry for the rambling way i write lol...
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
Heres a good tip, just cut off all your fan leaves.. if your plant starts dying that means your plants dying.
Tamerlane
Active Member
Let the plant tell you what it needs.... only leaves I ever take off are ones that are more than 50% yellow (as per Jorge Cervantes' book)... you know its ready to be taken off because it falls off the plant like butter when you touch it. If a leave isnt ready to be taken off then it wont come off easily.... If the leaf is green then its increasing the total energy the plant has to work with.
noober doober
Active Member
buds don't photosynthesize, leaves do
Serapis
Well-Known Member
You are right of course, we could always just leave the plant alone and not prune or train it.... I mean look at mother nature, don't those plants get along fine?
Sure they do, but look at the plants in your or a neighbor's yard that is landscaped. Pruning and planning make it look beautiful. You can plant all the roses you want, if you don't prune and keep them in shape, they look like hell and produce fewer flowering buds.
To those that say leaves produce energy, I agree, but not to the point that I'll let my plants suffer. By pruning out the center of plants and keeping the undergrowth to a minimum, you promote air circulation, light penetration and new growth.
I'm not raising a plant to smoke it's leaves. If a leaf or two is blocking what would otherwise be a productive bud site, I'm cutting off the leaves. You can also look at lollypopping or SOG grows.... those plants do just fine without excessive leaf growth. This was the first place I've heard in over 40 years of living, not to cut off a leaf of a plant, and it is just silly.
I will say that you should not be cutting much off after week 3 of flowering. Most pruning and training should be done during the more forgiving vegetative stage.
Rather than get into the debate, or starting similar threads that only end in BS, try it yourself. Outdoor plants I wouldn't bother, as the sun will get where it needs to no matter what you do. Indoor growers with limited grow space should make the most of their space and utilize selective pruning and other training methods to increase the vigor and growth, thereby, the yield of their plants.
By removing upper fan leaves so lower ones receive light, you are not losing any energy. The leaves that are below the cutting will receive light and more than make up for the lost solar panel.
And again, I have to ask you "don't touch that leaf" people, what about cloning and mother plants? Do not mother plants give up many cuttings with leaves and stems and yet they recover with more vigor and new growth? Why isn't the plant dying or producing less if we cut off leaves? Simple answer is, mother nature is awesome. She doesn't need us to baby over her offerings. Just as a cloner can keep taking cuttings, a bud grower can remove fan leaves that block light to bud sights.
It's common sense, no matter what charts and pretty drawings they throw out at you. Think for yourself.
budeboy22
Member
You are right of course, we could always just leave the plant alone and not prune or train it.... I mean look at mother nature, don't those plants get along fine?
Sure they do, but look at the plants in your or a neighbor's yard that is landscaped. Pruning and planning make it look beautiful. You can plant all the roses you want, if you don't prune and keep them in shape, they look like hell and produce fewer flowering buds.
To those that say leaves produce energy, I agree, but not to the point that I'll let my plants suffer. By pruning out the center of plants and keeping the undergrowth to a minimum, you promote air circulation, light penetration and new growth.
I'm not raising a plant to smoke it's leaves. If a leaf or two is blocking what would otherwise be a productive bud site, I'm cutting off the leaves. You can also look at lollypopping or SOG grows.... those plants do just fine without excessive leaf growth. This was the first place I've heard in over 40 years of living, not to cut off a leaf of a plant, and it is just silly.
I will say that you should not be cutting much off after week 3 of flowering. Most pruning and training should be done during the more forgiving vegetative stage.
Rather than get into the debate, or starting similar threads that only end in BS, try it yourself. Outdoor plants I wouldn't bother, as the sun will get where it needs to no matter what you do. Indoor growers with limited grow space should make the most of their space and utilize selective pruning and other training methods to increase the vigor and growth, thereby, the yield of their plants.
By removing upper fan leaves so lower ones receive light, you are not losing any energy. The leaves that are below the cutting will receive light and more than make up for the lost solar panel.
And again, I have to ask you "don't touch that leaf" people, what about cloning and mother plants? Do not mother plants give up many cuttings with leaves and stems and yet they recover with more vigor and new growth? Why isn't the plant dying or producing less if we cut off leaves? Simple answer is, mother nature is awesome. She doesn't need us to baby over her offerings. Just as a cloner can keep taking cuttings, a bud grower can remove fan leaves that block light to bud sights.
It's common sense, no matter what charts and pretty drawings they throw out at you. Think for yourself.
you just made everything so clear tome as humans we are prone to over analize even the dumbest things 
i actually prune and trim roses trees shrubs for a living (landscaping) i dont know y i didnt just think of pot as anyother plant i would trim...lol but you make some good points man + rep man
TaoWolf
Active Member
Hey Serapis I wanted to send a link to you in regards to this topic but it said you don't/can't accept PMs so here's the link anyway:It's common sense, no matter what charts and pretty drawings they throw out at you. Think for yourself.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202005000100015&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en
...and hope you see it.
It's about 5 years old and conducted on mustard plants but probably worth a read by anyone that has a strong opinion in the great defoliation debate. The first part is in Spanish - skip it and the rest is in English. And if short on time or patience, skip on down to the Results and Discussion sections.
Serapis
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tao, and your request was approved. Thanks for adding me.
I've just read that article. It is no surprise to me that plants that were defoliated by 50% of their leaves had increased stomatal activity, higher photosynthesis and an increased yield. This is proven under scientific conditions.
Budeboy, I used to be a landscaper, that's where I came up with the roses analogy. Unkept roses, like unkept pot plants, get out of control and end up producing less buds. Roses love to be pruned back for new growth. They thrive on it. Marijuana has shown to benefit from defoliation as well. There is a guy on the forums that has some beautiful pics of plants that were defoliated that had huge yields.
The old timers and know it alls will tell ya otherwise. If you cut a leaf off, a part of them dies. LOL
Just try it yourself. My last harvest of 5 plants, I had about 2/3 oz from secondary lower sites that I made sure received light but cutting off fan leaves. Thats a couple hundred dollars of smokable bud that I would not have had to harvest without selective pruning. Just keep in mind, you can overdo it. I would also never remove 50% of a plants leaves, but some do, and with great results.
Photosynthesis takes place within the chloroplasts of plant cells, but because photosynthesis is critical for survival, the entire plant structure is often adapted to optimize this process, not just the leaves.
I've just read that article. It is no surprise to me that plants that were defoliated by 50% of their leaves had increased stomatal activity, higher photosynthesis and an increased yield. This is proven under scientific conditions.
Budeboy, I used to be a landscaper, that's where I came up with the roses analogy. Unkept roses, like unkept pot plants, get out of control and end up producing less buds. Roses love to be pruned back for new growth. They thrive on it. Marijuana has shown to benefit from defoliation as well. There is a guy on the forums that has some beautiful pics of plants that were defoliated that had huge yields.
The old timers and know it alls will tell ya otherwise. If you cut a leaf off, a part of them dies. LOL
Just try it yourself. My last harvest of 5 plants, I had about 2/3 oz from secondary lower sites that I made sure received light but cutting off fan leaves. Thats a couple hundred dollars of smokable bud that I would not have had to harvest without selective pruning. Just keep in mind, you can overdo it. I would also never remove 50% of a plants leaves, but some do, and with great results.
Photosynthesis takes place within the chloroplasts of plant cells, but because photosynthesis is critical for survival, the entire plant structure is often adapted to optimize this process, not just the leaves.
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
Heres your answer : Only trim if you Honestly believe your Yield will Increase by 20Grams + or your plant will Harvest Sooner. Cutting plants for any reason is Lame to me, for the Impatient. Unless your Topping the plant let it be. LUMENS penetrate leaves ppl. Cutting a HUGE FAN LEAF to Provide more light. its like needing to lose a little extra weight to run faster, so you decide to Trim your toes.
Serapis
Well-Known Member
Where do you come up with these comparrisons? LOL That is ridiculous.... no one is cutting off toes to run faster....
If you want to dispute what has been provided here as evidence that defoilation works, how about keeping it in scientific terms that can be discussed. Your toes analogy is whacked....
Ok I took 5 plants same strain under 1k hps with lots of air and did 5 different trims and one not very much. The one that was left alone made the most bud and all the way down to the worst one that was trimmed the most.. Conversely if you have 1500ppm of co2 during lights on you can trim the shit out of them and still get great results. I mean basically trimming them into a single cola that is the length of a mans forearm.. Without co2 you will need all the leaves and all the light you can get... If you have to much light, yes I said to much light, you will waste your money on electricity. What does to much light mean? it simple means if you trim up your plants a lot and think that a huge amount of light will make them big think again. You will have to have lots of co2 and I mean 1300 to 1500 ppm or the light will just bounce off the trimmed up plants... They must have co2 to grow and if not you will need lots of leaves to yield well... And leaves suck... I can now grow 50 plants at 1oz each that take up no more than 6.5'x7'x7'h. Before co2 I could only get in around 20 and it was a nightmare of forest green trimming from hell at harvest to get the small 30oz yield... GL.......
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
Hahaha no wonder you hate me.. you see what I post. >:]
fraiserblaze
Active Member
I've been steady reading for what seems like years and its my opinion that losing some fan leaves does not seem to negativly affect the plant but there is so much conflicting info I would suggest making it a personally choice what works for me might not work as well for others !