LBH's 4 way lst tutorial (w topping sub-tutorial)

no no no, I get that he is using topping and LST to control the canopy. It's a great and effective way to control your height while still getting a good yield off your plants. I am just stating that topping doesn't really give you 2 need main cola's or 4 main cola's. They are only the 'main cola's' because you cut the real main one off and it forces the other cola's to get bigger. I am not trying to dis his advice, it's great advice and very well thought out and written.

Schwag- I completely encourage it,.....tossing this stuff around amongst other growers is how these techniques are born, they are merely accumulations of everyones input.

bamfrivet said:

no no no, I get that he is using topping and LST to control the canopy. It's a great and effective way to control your height while still getting a good yield off your plants. I am just stating that topping doesn't really give you 2 need main cola's or 4 main cola's. They are only the 'main cola's' because you cut the real main one off and it forces the other cola's to get bigger. I am not trying to dis his advice, it's great advice and very well thought out and written.

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I call it the main cola because if you grow the plant out, standard style, that main cola will be the biggest. The point I was trying to point out is that if you top it, it WILL NOT BE 2 colas of the same size that the original one would have been,....they will be smaller. The 2 will generally weigh more than the single but individually, they are each smaller than a single main would have been.

Understand, when I say, if "if you top those MAIN COLAS again, you'll get 4 medium size colas"....I am only still referring to them as the "main colas" so everyone will know exactly which ones I'm talking about. I think your point is,....once you top it twice, split that main stalk into 4,....you've pretty much sacrificed having a "main cola" and you've reduced it to be a normal, happy, med sized buds. Same thing, different wording

Hey LBH, just curious what size pot do you like to flower in? I know I like a large pot with a nice diameter for a canopy spread.

Well, remember, I do it a little differently than many scroggers, I like to get the screen as very low as possible and grow out all that understuff whereas most scroggers go a bit more vertical, trim the undebrush and max out just the tops. With my method in mind, when I was in soil, I used 7 gallon deck pots (the plastic square pots for your deck at lowes that you put a potted plant inside so you can take it out and bring inside if needed) and then went even lower when I found some 7 gallon horse feed buckets that were much shallower and wider, like an oil change catch pan kind of, little higher side.

In hydro, currently, I'm very limited with height, we came up with this method by tossing around ideas to squash the plant down and out reducing height and not yield. The resulting yields were just a big benny. Running 3 flowering screens, 4 plants per screen,avg 3-5.5 per plant, we have more than enough meds to keep myself and (Currently) 4 patients supplied.

So in hydro I am currently using 3.5 buckets w/ 1/2" plumbing in a closet with slanted roofs (3rd floor) but if I had room and were looking to really max out my numbers or space, I'd be in 5gals at least, if not 18g rubbermaids and 1" plumbing. I'll go as big as my space allows, if I were outdoor, I'd be in 350g smart pots.

more root-more bud

I hear that, more root more bud! I'm diggin on the 7 gallon for the greater training possibilities. I totally agree it all depends on space though, everything is built around the space. I do perpetual so i don't screen anything, just super crop and LST each plant individually. The last 7 gallon I did I got about 4 quality zips which is just fine by me. If I can dial it in and duplicate those results every time I will be happy Have you looked at any tubtrugs? Is that what you mean by horse feed buckets?

Shwagbag said:

I hear that, more root more bud! I'm diggin on the 7 gallon for the greater training possibilities. I totally agree it all depends on space though, everything is built around the space. I do perpetual so i don't screen anything, just super crop and LST each plant individually. The last 7 gallon I did I got about 4 quality zips which is just fine by me. If I can dial it in and duplicate those results every time I will be happy Have you looked at any tubtrugs? Is that what you mean by horse feed buckets?

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I run perpetual also, allowed 12/12 so I run 3 screens, 4 plants each, each offset by 4 weeks. 2 of the screens get a 400 each and the third screen is longer and gets a 600 on a mover. 4 per plant is the perfect balance right there and damn skippy if ya ask me. Sometimes you'll get a strain that pumps it out, sometimes you'll run one that spits golf balls, either way, you learn from each and every run. The 600 w/ a mover is the cats meow though. I'm on run 3 with it and the gram/watt has gone up with each run,cant wait to see where it tops out. Looking at hopefully 22-24 ounces for those 4 plants this run, that'll be a personal best for me indoors

Niiiice dude, did you get the idea from Hobbes? I read his thread a while back and learned a lot from it. I wish I had the space and time to do all of that!

No, this is something that I threw out to another boards about 6-7 yrs ago and we threw it around for 30-40 pages and then built the first tutorial which ran for over 400 pages and the end result was this. Since then, I've put it on roughly 1 new board a year or so.

That's sweet, 600 on a light mover is a damn fine way to boost your g/w, especially when you combine it with canopy control. Throw some pics of your nugs sometime would love to see them.

Niice tutorial.

I understand that the method you detailed here is for seeds. What would be the best way to get clones ready for a Scrog grow?

I saw your reply to another post that said clones have a different plant structure, so would it need less topping maybe or somethin completely different?

I'd totally be down for seeds but clones are a lot easier and cheaper for me to get. I've seen other Scrog grows with clones, but I like your style and want to know your input on it.

clambaker said:

Niice tutorial.

I understand that the method you detailed here is for seeds. What would be the best way to get clones ready for a Scrog grow?

I saw your reply to another post that said clones have a different plant structure, so would it need less topping maybe or somethin completely different?

I'd totally be down for seeds but clones are a lot easier and cheaper for me to get. I've seen other Scrog grows with clones, but I like your style and want to know your input on it.

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First of all,...love the name. I'm an ex clam digger here in RI (quahog's) I used to load trucks at ups from 4-8 in the morning and then hit the bay and scratch up a couple bags and then call it a day,...or go hit some stripers/blues, whatever.

ok, so back on topic, this exact method is only possible from seed like you read and if I were to give any advice about scrogging ANY other way, I would redirect you to the scrog thread by woodsmantoker in the advanced section. Lots of different methods are discussed but the standard scrogging style is the main body of the discussion and some of those guys have it down quite well. I do clones once in awhile but don't have a rhyme or reason to how, I just get the plant to a size I want and then just get it under the screen and start pulling arms through the holes. Nothing fancy or specific but again, some guys have their ways, and their results are, quite frankly, better than mine when I attempt to grow their style. 4-way is the way for me with screens but if you don't have beans and clones are available, don't hesitate to get your hands wet there first. You'll want to try both ways eventually anyway.

Good luck and sorry I couldnt be much help but if you have more Q's, I'd be happy to try and answer them

hahah thanks man. im on the west coast and i am gonna try my hand in lobster hunting this upcoming season (think it starts in october). i live pretty close to the water so im down by the beach all the time.

& thanks for the tips.
planning to get my scrog grow set up by the end of the month, im gonna go hydro but i still have to build my box--waiting on my paycheck.

im sure ill have some more questions as i go, im new to these forums but im planning on starting a journal once i get going

great thread!! but how do i know where to top a clone sense the nodes aren't symmetrical? thank you!!

Great informative thread, Thanks for taking the time to explain everything out Helps Me and others out alot!!!

Motomom,This method is for "from seed" only. No clones or autos

Glad it helped Green!!

motoxmom said:

great thread!! but how do i know where to top a clone sense the nodes aren't symmetrical? thank you!!

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Clones are a feel, you have to play around and go with the flow. Once you do it enough it will be a cinch!

Shwagbag said:

Clones are a feel, you have to play around and go with the flow. Once you do it enough it will be a cinch!

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Please read my previous reply For this to work, you need to pull the 4th/5th node and there is no 4th/5th node with a clone or an auto

LBH said:

Please read my previous reply For this to work, you need to pull the 4th/5th node and there is no 4th/5th node with a clone or an auto

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What I was trying to say is that there is basically no exact method to clones for me personally. Its mostly going with a feel and giving them a "haircut" from time to time. Hope you don't mind if I share a couple pics since you get this question a lot. My plants seem to be stretching excessively in flower, I think because of a bulb past it's prime, but this gives an idea. This clone was supercropped constantly, topped several times and given a few "haircuts" to keep growth even and consistent. Pics went up screwy, pics 1 & 3 is end of veg, pic 2 is at 10 days into flower.

Those came out perfect for a screen! I didn't mean you can't scrog with clones, just that u can't do the 4 way lst. If you ARE going to use clones in a screen, take the time to veg them up like swag did and you'll be happy with your results. For me, the time involved in veg, being a perpetual, a clone only gets to be one nice arm by the time I need to move it to the screen where's from seed, with the 4 way lst, I can move them to flower a little quicker with similar to same results

How much time invested from cut to flower swag, just so the folks can have an idea of the time diffference. She's gonna kick you a real nice harvest man, good luck!

LBH said:

Those came out perfect for a screen! I didn't mean you can't scrog with clones, just that u can't do the 4 way lst. If you ARE going to use clones in a screen, take the time to veg them up like swag did and you'll be happy with your results. For me, the time involved in veg, being a perpetual, a clone only gets to be one nice arm by the time I need to move it to the screen where's from seed, with the 4 way lst, I can move them to flower a little quicker with similar to same results

How much time invested from cut to flower swag, just so the folks can have an idea of the time diffference. She's gonna kick you a real nice harvest man, good luck!

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Its cool, I knew what you meant... I wish I could tell you honestly lol. This clone was given to me and looked like a bean pole all stretched out when I got it. I worked her a lot, even root bound her to slow her down and gave her a couple nice haircuts. There is a lot of veg time on that one, I would have liked to flower much earlier but I have a major bottleneck going on. I also veg under T5's which is slow as it is. So to answer your question, I have no effin' idea how long she vegged but it was probably 60+ days of veg half of which was probably spent root bound to keep her small until I was ready for her to move into flower. I will see if my herbiq has any info and edit. I can def see that seeds would be faster, especially considering my slow cloning results.

Thanks for the compliments, I'm hoping for about 3-4 zips off her if all goes well. The strain is bubblegum, which I found to be average when I did it before, hope this is more potent!