large trim extraction, I WANT GOLD :D

mantle7717

mantle7717

Well-Known Member
I usually run fresh bud or kief, but i have alot of kinda old decent trim, when i blast it and vac it for about 8 hours at 110 i get a hard light amber sap, i dont usually get darker color out of my extractions, i get gold.

basically i need a way to get rid of the shakey flavor and remove fats/lipids,

ive tried the tilt the pan and scoop the fats out with a spoon method and had ok resaults and ive witerized with 99 and 91% iso and everclear, and gotten decent resaults,

what do you do, any advice would be appreciated

please dont spam that one skunkpharm link for polishing extracts(you know the one)
 
Twitch

Twitch

Well-Known Member
the word OLD that you use could more then likely be the reason for this...

also instead of a spoon you use a coffee filter...

and what ever flavor you have will remain in your oil even after winterizing
 
mantle7717

mantle7717

Well-Known Member
Twitch. said:
the word OLD that you use could more then likely be the reason for this...

also instead of a spoon you use a coffee filter...

and what ever flavor you have will remain in your oil even after winterizing
Click to expand...
i know that the age is the problem, and i use coffee filters after winterizing, when i say i use a spoon im talking about pre winterization, by tilting the liquid butane to isolate the fats , [video=youtube;3bkIKAaqlMY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bkIKAaqlMY[/video],

what do you mean by use coffee filters instead of a spoon.
 
SaybianTv

SaybianTv

Active Member
twitch, it's a dead subject. Dewaxing is do what you can form of winterizing. The toughest part being the management of pools of evaporating butane to keep temps low enough that the waxes can't stay dissolved.
It's the latest unspoken tek. Those videos from TTK was him bringing it to the public while those in the know tried to keep it secret and dismiss it as ice. That ended when he made a candle of the so called ice and lit it. Makes a kickass candle of wax.
 
SaybianTv

SaybianTv

Active Member
The end game for dewaxing is to pour that dish into the buchner funnel for a better grab than you can get with a spoon.
Fats_and_Lips.jpgI don't dewax but I do winterize everybatch I make which is a difficulty most can't sustain beyond personal meds. If I dewaxed it would be the same process.
 
mantle7717

mantle7717

Well-Known Member
SaybianTv said:
twitch, it's a dead subject. Dewaxing is do what you can form of winterizing. The toughest part being the management of pools of evaporating butane to keep temps low enough that the waxes can't stay dissolved.
It's the latest unspoken tek. Those videos from TTK was him bringing it to the public while those in the know tried to keep it secret and dismiss it as ice. That ended when he made a candle of the so called ice and lit it. Makes a kickass candle of wax.
Click to expand...
thank you for that :) just hopig i could get some advice, thats why i joined rollitup, to give and get advice
 
SaybianTv

SaybianTv

Active Member
Dewaxing wont help with the shakey flavor, once it taste like wood it taste like wood. I find every evil drop of water I let into the game is 1 more point of plant flavor in the end result. How cold do you extract? I can't outright say it's the magic touch, but from a how much plant waxes and fat's exist your tube it makes a hell of allot of difference. I only get bad flavor when i play funny games with my tube like leaving it to drip in a cup and then purging the small pool of liquid i get the next day.
 
Twitch

Twitch

Well-Known Member
SaybianTv said:
twitch, it's a dead subject. Dewaxing is do what you can form of winterizing. The toughest part being the management of pools of evaporating butane to keep temps low enough that the waxes can't stay dissolved.
It's the latest unspoken tek. Those videos from TTK was him bringing it to the public while those in the know tried to keep it secret and dismiss it as ice. That ended when he made a candle of the so called ice and lit it. Makes a kickass candle of wax.
Click to expand...
what???? whats a dead subject

IMG-20130513-00413.jpgthis is an old picture i had

and it does look like ice, i have seen ice form in the pools of butane just like that

and sorry that doesnt seem to be an effective method of removing wax......
 
Twitch

Twitch

Well-Known Member
SaybianTv said:
I don't dewax but I do winterize everybatch I make which is a difficulty most can't sustain beyond personal meds. If I dewaxed it would be the same process.
Click to expand...
wait so you winterize every batch but not de wax..... i was under the impression it was the same thing

winterizing is putting your bho into a secondary solvent then placing it in sub zero temps for 24 to 48 hours to allow the waxes fats and lipids to separate



i did run into someone on here that though that winterizing was simply making everything your working with cold....
 
SaybianTv

SaybianTv

Active Member
Yes so imagine dewaxing netting you a yield of a 16 hour secondary solvent trip to the freezer. It's a best in lieu filter at source solution that's become the new brand label on instagram " if that has any worth"
I've gotten my winterize to the point where I don't believe I'm loosing flavor and I'm eliminating 99% of remaining fat's and waxes from an already sub zero extraction which left most of the waxes in the coffee filters.
I'm not advocating for dewaxing just explaining the irregular results that people get, and wagging my finger at marketing of misinformation going on cuzz people are genuinely trying to learn. I don't pools of liquid butane I don't like the idea at all.

I personaly don't use butane so dewaxing doesn't work for my solvent, I have to winterize with a second solvent. I found it economical to buy a refrigerated cold trap so I could winterize in 1 hour instead of 48. That's out of the average extraction artist reach, but with the solvent recovery it allows me to do it's paid for itself in the amount of times I've avoided halting production.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
I don't like the whole "dewaxing" concept..I've spoken on it before and it doesn't work theoretically
why would fats and waxes drop out of butane (both non polar and love each other) and you expect thca(most likely unless you decarb before extraction, but even if...) to not fall out? Thca is "so polar" it it won't readily cross the blood brain barrier.. if you had saturated butane at room temp and froze it (same process as winterizing but using opposite polarity solvent.) You would expect the opposite to happen as winterizing in a polar solvent...the reason winterizing works is the decreased solubility as temps lower... but when lowering the temps of a non polar solvent you know the polar constituents will fall out first being less soluble......because thca is much less soluble in butane than wax and fats I would expect much of your psychoactive compounds to be dropped if nothing else, some dropped with fats and wax...not to be condescending but this is basic chemistry/extraction knowledge....now some fats and stuff may fall out because as you lower temps solubility will decrease for larger heavier compounds..but still... thc isn't all that light ....of course I could be wrong (hasn't happened yet though, on a bit of a streak you could say)
Saybian..you should stop trying to learn off instagram YouTube etc. Stop reading it in general...just saying man...I've never seen anyone knowledgeable on a site like those
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
mantle7717 said:
I usually run fresh bud or kief, but i have alot of kinda old decent trim, when i blast it and vac it for about 8 hours at 110 i get a hard light amber sap, i dont usually get darker color out of my extractions, i get gold.

basically i need a way to get rid of the shakey flavor and remove fats/lipids,

ive tried the tilt the pan and scoop the fats out with a spoon method and had ok resaults and ive witerized with 99 and 91% iso and everclear, and gotten decent resaults,

what do you do, any advice would be appreciated

please dont spam that one skunkpharm link for polishing extracts(you know the one)
Click to expand...
It is the monoterpenes that give good extract its aroma and flavor, and the shortage of them that makes shake smell shakey. If you've read "that one link", then you know about winterizing, and the rest is more about salvaging a screw up, than making bragging quality extracts.

You can't "polish" good aroma and flavor into an extraction, and a good extraction should mimic the aroma and flavor of what it was extracted from.

You can minimize loses of the existing monoterpenes, by extracting at subzero temperatures, so that minimal waxes are extracted in the first place, and winterizing is not required.
 
SaybianTv

SaybianTv

Active Member
qwizoking said:
I don't like the whole "dewaxing" concept..I've spoken on it before and it doesn't work theoretically
why would fats and waxes drop out of butane (both non polar and love each other) and you expect thca(most likely unless you decarb before extraction, but even if...) to not fall out? Thca is "so polar" it it won't readily cross the blood brain barrier.. if you had saturated butane at room temp and froze it (same process as winterizing but using opposite polarity solvent.) You would expect the opposite to happen as winterizing in a polar solvent...the reason winterizing works is the decreased solubility as temps lower... but when lowering the temps of a non polar solvent you know the polar constituents will fall out first being less soluble......because thca is much less soluble in butane than wax and fats I would expect much of your psychoactive compounds to be dropped if nothing else, some dropped with fats and wax...not to be condescending but this is basic chemistry/extraction knowledge....now some fats and stuff may fall out because as you lower temps solubility will decrease for larger heavier compounds..but still... thc isn't all that light ....of course I could be wrong (hasn't happened yet though, on a bit of a streak you could say)
Saybian..you should stop trying to learn off instagram YouTube etc. Stop reading it in general...just saying man...I've never seen anyone knowledgeable on a site like those
Click to expand...
I don't have the english I did before, im still waiting to see if my brain speed is going to go back to normal, so I cant argue with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zxzIRqMDUE
If your calling mario juanna fuckery's "warning i've learned as much from him as I have from you" I will have issue with you later when i can defend myself.

Im hoping someone else can take points from the video and debate on. Im regretting i tried to write at all, i don't know anything about seizure side effects and I can't read the internet well.
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Butane has less ability to dissolve and hold waxes in solution as the temperature falls, and an evaporating butane pool at atmospheric pressure can easily hit -27C, at which point previously dissolved waxes will precipitate out of solution and float about in the pool.

That is only the waxes that precipitated out, not all that are there, so winterizing does a far more complete removal.

The fish trap exists only because of the fish, and you can catch the fish more than one way. Using a Terpenator, we soak the butane holding tank in -70C alcohol and dry ice before extracting, so that we don't extract excessive waxes in the first place.
 
Sirdabsalot462

Sirdabsalot462

Well-Known Member
Well.....

Dude, I hate to be that guy ... But I feel it's a necessity.

Please do not take offense, as I'm merely concerned for the well being of the concentrate community.

It seemed as though you were indoors in a rather enclosed space, with a massive pool of butane.

Stainless steel spoon could possibly be an ignition source.

My props to you on having that much material, you seem like a smart dude. Lots of cool shhit, I'm jelly of. :)

Please, go outside brother, I beg of you.

Imagine losing all your belongings, some flesh, hurting yourself, or worse those innocent around you.

No amount of oil is worth the pain of severe burns, possible death, destruction of your belongings.
Ok I'm sorry rant over.

Peace
 
Twitch

Twitch

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Butane has less ability to dissolve and hold waxes in solution as the temperature falls, and an evaporating butane pool at atmospheric pressure can easily hit -27C, at which point previously dissolved waxes will precipitate out of solution and float about in the pool.

That is only the waxes that precipitated out, not all that are there, so winterizing does a far more complete removal.

The fish trap exists only because of the fish, and you can catch the fish more than one way. Using a Terpenator, we soak the butane holding tank in -70C alcohol and dry ice before extracting, so that we don't extract excessive waxes in the first place.
Click to expand...
there is always more then one way to skin a cat....
 
blackforest

blackforest

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Butane has less ability to dissolve and hold waxes in solution as the temperature falls, and an evaporating butane pool at atmospheric pressure can easily hit -27C, at which point previously dissolved waxes will precipitate out of solution and float about in the pool.

That is only the waxes that precipitated out, not all that are there, so winterizing does a far more complete removal.

The fish trap exists only because of the fish, and you can catch the fish more than one way. Using a Terpenator, we soak the butane holding tank in -70C alcohol and dry ice before extracting, so that we don't extract excessive waxes in the first place.
Click to expand...
Well said Fadedawg.

ff to 1 min: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYDzLUH1NE
 
Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Active Member
Fadedawg said:
You can minimize loses of the existing monoterpenes, by extracting at subzero temperatures, so that minimal waxes are extracted in the first place, and winterizing is not required.
Click to expand...
FD stupid question here but why do non-polar solvents extract THC-A when it is polar? Am I wrong? or is it only partially polar?
BTW I saw that the Skunkparm website had a subzero extraction pic and it looked very nice. I think you are on to something there. Do you have any plans to do a full tutorial on it in the future?
 
mrcryce

mrcryce

Well-Known Member
Sirdabsalot462 said:
Well.....

Dude, I hate to be that guy ... But I feel it's a necessity.

Please do not take offense, as I'm merely concerned for the well being of the concentrate community.

It seemed as though you were indoors in a rather enclosed space, with a massive pool of butane.

Stainless steel spoon could possibly be an ignition source.

My props to you on having that much material, you seem like a smart dude. Lots of cool shhit, I'm jelly of. :)

Please, go outside brother, I beg of you.

Imagine losing all your belongings, some flesh, hurting yourself, or worse those innocent around you.

No amount of oil is worth the pain of severe burns, possible death, destruction of your belongings.
Ok I'm sorry rant over.

Peace
Click to expand...

Your concern is very appreciated. To whom are you directing these comments? Fadedawg is using closed loop system where butane is not exposed to the atmosphere and Saybian's choice of solvent is d-limonene.
 
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