Large amount of solvent getting stuck in my closed loop system.

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Yes both columns are exactly the same size! Not sure what you mean by run multiple volumes? Unfortunately I have a top feed so I dumped for a little bit turn it off let it sit and then dumped again till I have nearly almost emptied my solvent chamber! @Fadedawg would love any advice you can give on how I'm currently running my system

Bvv 5lb with dewaxing column on bottom with mesh screen gasket in between the regular column. I also use a unbleached coffee filter on top of that mesh screen in between. Then below dewaxing column is a reducer down to 2 in to a ball valve. At the bottom of the reducer is a 2 inch screen gasket also and in the reducer I use stainless steel mesh with coffee filter on bottom and top.
For starters, may I note that other than proving the process and Lil Terp equipment, the balance of my R&D has been with active systems using a pump?

I've also never inline de-waxed with a passive system, but let's first talk about how they work and how to figure out pressures, so as to keep things in perspective.

Passive systems move the butane around using differential pressure created by differences in temperature. The Gay/Lussac law says that the pressure of a given amount of gas, held at constant volume, is directly proportional to it temperature Kelvin. P is a constant function of T, so P/T=C, and P1/T1 = P2/T2 = P3/T3........

That makes equipment sizing critical, and too many brothers try to run columns too large for the base. With a 10" X 12" collection pot and 3 X 18 column, you have about a 7.4:1 ration and should be more than adequate.

Kelvin is Celcius minus -273.15 degrees, so at 21C/70F ambient, we are at 294.15K, and the volume of your 10" X 12" pot is 942.5 in/3 at 29.92" Hg, and your columns 127 in/3 each.

29.92:294.15::1:X=19.5K or C /35F temperature differential in temperature needed per inch Hg of vacuum. As you can see, passive systems operate with relatively low pressure differentials, so they don't gracefully tolerate much resistance to flow.

You can also see why water ice and brine give little vacuum for inline filtration, so suggest using dry ice and alcohol.

Predistill your butane and have everything in the system connected and vacuumed to as close to -29.92" Hg as possible to remove all the atmospheric oxygen, and to eliminate any non-condensable gases in the system. After vacuuming, close the valve between the collection and recovery tank and open the recovery tank valve.

Note, if your injection and recovery tank are the same and you can't plumb it to do both without disconnecting it in the process, install a tee fitting in the line between the recovery port and the tank, that allows you to vacuum out the line again after re-connection.

I suggest packing and freezing the material column to ~-18C/0F, and wrapping insulation around it, but installing swiftly and not putting coolant and ice in the jacket.

If it is warmer than -.5C/31F, when the butane hits it, it will vaporize and impede further butane flooding the column, without a vapor vent.

Chill the pre-distilled n-butane to -30C and use an auxiliary hot vapor tank to provide tank head space pressure. You can also use N2 for this, but I prefer hot vapor, so as to not require subsequent burping.

I would put alcohol and dry ice in the de-wax column jacket, and set the collection tank in an alcohol dry ice bath, as well as the storage tank connected to the collection tank by hose.

I would use a screened gasket and a couple wadded up commercial sized coffee filters between the extraction column. You just have to keep the chunks out, as you will be filtering again. I would use a 1 micron 4" X 8" polyester felt sock filter between the dewaxing column and the collection tank. Face filters blind rapidly when filtering wax.

An alternative is a roughing filter, followed by finer face filters, but you need to get down to around 25 microns or below.

I would inject through the material column, into the de-wax column, and let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour, before opening the valve under the de-wax column, and pulling the butane through a 1 micron sock filter.

I would remove the insulation from the material column after injection and when I got ready to filter, I would add warm water into the material column to warm it up and drive off butane.

Open the dump valve and allow the 29.92" vacuum in the collection pot provide the initial boost for vacuum filtration.

Once that vacuum is lost, open valve to recovery tank.

Once the column is drained, I would set the collection pot in ~100/110F warm water, leaving the recovery tank in dry ice and alcohol for final recovery.
 

Aj struhar

Active Member
For starters, may I note that other than proving the process and Lil Terp equipment, the balance of my R&D has been with active systems using a pump?
Thank you!!! Ye

I've also never inline de-waxed with a passive system, but let's first talk about how they work and how to figure out pressures, so as to keep things in perspective.

Passive systems move the butane around using differential pressure created by differences in temperature. The Gay/Lussac law says that the pressure of a given amount of gas, held at constant volume, is directly proportional to it temperature Kelvin. P is a constant function of T, so P/T=C, and P1/T1 = P2/T2 = P3/T3........

That makes equipment sizing critical, and too many brothers try to run columns too large for the base. With a 10" X 12" collection pot and 3 X 18 column, you have about a 7.4:1 ration and should be more than adequate.

Kelvin is Celcius minus -273.15 degrees, so at 21C/70F ambient, we are at 294.15K, and the volume of your 10" X 12" pot is 942.5 in/3 at 29.92" Hg, and your columns 127 in/3 each.

29.92:294.15::1:X=19.5K or C /35F temperature differential in temperature needed per inch Hg of vacuum. As you can see, passive systems operate with relatively low pressure differentials, so they don't gracefully tolerate much resistance to flow.

You can also see why water ice and brine give little vacuum for inline filtration, so suggest using dry ice and alcohol.

Predistill your butane and have everything in the system connected and vacuumed to as close to -29.92" Hg as possible to remove all the atmospheric oxygen, and to eliminate any non-condensable gases in the system. After vacuuming, close the valve between the collection and recovery tank and open the recovery tank valve.

Note, if your injection and recovery tank are the same and you can't plumb it to do both without disconnecting it in the process, install a tee fitting in the line between the recovery port and the tank, that allows you to vacuum out the line again after re-connection.

I suggest packing and freezing the material column to ~-18C/0F, and wrapping insulation around it, but installing swiftly and not putting coolant and ice in the jacket.

If it is warmer than -.5C/31F, when the butane hits it, it will vaporize and impede further butane flooding the column, without a vapor vent.

Chill the pre-distilled n-butane to -30C and use an auxiliary hot vapor tank to provide tank head space pressure. You can also use N2 for this, but I prefer hot vapor, so as to not require subsequent burping.

I would put alcohol and dry ice in the de-wax column jacket, and set the collection tank in an alcohol dry ice bath, as well as the storage tank connected to the collection tank by hose.

I would use a screened gasket and a couple wadded up commercial sized coffee filters between the extraction column. You just have to keep the chunks out, as you will be filtering again. I would use a 1 micron 4" X 8" polyester felt sock filter between the dewaxing column and the collection tank. Face filters blind rapidly when filtering wax.

An alternative is a roughing filter, followed by finer face filters, but you need to get down to around 25 microns or below.

I would inject through the material column, into the de-wax column, and let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour, before opening the valve under the de-wax column, and pulling the butane through a 1 micron sock filter.

I would remove the insulation from the material column after injection and when I got ready to filter, I would add warm water into the material column to warm it up and drive off butane.

Open the dump valve and allow the 29.92" vacuum in the collection pot provide the initial boost for vacuum filtration.

Once that vacuum is lost, open valve to recovery tank.

Once the column is drained, I would set the collection pot in ~100/110F warm water, leaving the recovery tank in dry ice and alcohol for final recovery.
For starters, may I note that other than proving the process and Lil Terp equipment, the balance of my R&D has been with active systems using a pump?

I've also never inline de-waxed with a passive system, but let's first talk about how they work and how to figure out pressures, so as to keep things in perspective.

Passive systems move the butane around using differential pressure created by differences in temperature. The Gay/Lussac law says that the pressure of a given amount of gas, held at constant volume, is directly proportional to it temperature Kelvin. P is a constant function of T, so P/T=C, and P1/T1 = P2/T2 = P3/T3........

That makes equipment sizing critical, and too many brothers try to run columns too large for the base. With a 10" X 12" collection pot and 3 X 18 column, you have about a 7.4:1 ration and should be more than adequate.

Kelvin is Celcius minus -273.15 degrees, so at 21C/70F ambient, we are at 294.15K, and the volume of your 10" X 12" pot is 942.5 in/3 at 29.92" Hg, and your columns 127 in/3 each.

29.92:294.15::1:X=19.5K or C /35F temperature differential in temperature needed per inch Hg of vacuum. As you can see, passive systems operate with relatively low pressure differentials, so they don't gracefully tolerate much resistance to flow.

You can also see why water ice and brine give little vacuum for inline filtration, so suggest using dry ice and alcohol.

Predistill your butane and have everything in the system connected and vacuumed to as close to -29.92" Hg as possible to remove all the atmospheric oxygen, and to eliminate any non-condensable gases in the system. After vacuuming, close the valve between the collection and recovery tank and open the recovery tank valve.

Note, if your injection and recovery tank are the same and you can't plumb it to do both without disconnecting it in the process, install a tee fitting in the line between the recovery port and the tank, that allows you to vacuum out the line again after re-connection.

I suggest packing and freezing the material column to ~-18C/0F, and wrapping insulation around it, but installing swiftly and not putting coolant and ice in the jacket.

If it is warmer than -.5C/31F, when the butane hits it, it will vaporize and impede further butane flooding the column, without a vapor vent.

Chill the pre-distilled n-butane to -30C and use an auxiliary hot vapor tank to provide tank head space pressure. You can also use N2 for this, but I prefer hot vapor, so as to not require subsequent burping.

I would put alcohol and dry ice in the de-wax column jacket, and set the collection tank in an alcohol dry ice bath, as well as the storage tank connected to the collection tank by hose.

I would use a screened gasket and a couple wadded up commercial sized coffee filters between the extraction column. You just have to keep the chunks out, as you will be filtering again. I would use a 1 micron 4" X 8" polyester felt sock filter between the dewaxing column and the collection tank. Face filters blind rapidly when filtering wax.

An alternative is a roughing filter, followed by finer face filters, but you need to get down to around 25 microns or below.

I would inject through the material column, into the de-wax column, and let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour, before opening the valve under the de-wax column, and pulling the butane through a 1 micron sock filter.

I would remove the insulation from the material column after injection and when I got ready to filter, I would add warm water into the material column to warm it up and drive off butane.

Open the dump valve and allow the 29.92" vacuum in the collection pot provide the initial boost for vacuum filtration.

Once that vacuum is lost, open valve to recovery tank.

Once the column is drained, I would set the collection pot in ~100/110F warm water, leaving the recovery tank in dry ice and alcohol for final recovery.
Thank you!!! Yes I am passively recovering. For now I don't have the big enough freezer to do what you're talking about but I do use dry ice and denatured alcohol. I did figure out with burping the system at the top and at the bottom help drain the system almost 100% T fitting is a great idea as I will have to go to an HVAC supply and grab one. Another question for you is on that sock/Where to put it and also helping to clarify the product? Do I not use the stainless steel pads ? I just did my first ever Nug Run and it came out Amber but the taste and smell is on point. Just wondering if that's how some strains will look or if I can get it clear
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Thank you!!! Yes I am passively recovering. For now I don't have the big enough freezer to do what you're talking about but I do use dry ice and denatured alcohol. I did figure out with burping the system at the top and at the bottom help drain the system almost 100% T fitting is a great idea as I will have to go to an HVAC supply and grab one. Another question for you is on that sock/Where to put it and also helping to clarify the product? Do I not use the stainless steel pads ? I just did my first ever Nug Run and it came out Amber but the taste and smell is on point. Just wondering if that's how some strains will look or if I can get it clear
The sock filter goes under the valve, under the dewax column. You don't need a stainless wool roughing filter with a sock, but if you were running a large amount of material, it would extend the life of the sock.
 

KLITE

Well-Known Member
I would use a screened gasket and a couple wadded up commercial sized coffee filters between the extraction column. You just have to keep the chunks out, as you will be filtering again. I would use a 1 micron 4" X 8" polyester felt sock filter between the dewaxing column and the collection tank. Face filters blind rapidly when filtering wax.
I do have to say this is the shit. Im running passive so i use the 5 micron duda diesel filter and it works like magic. My trim runs pass for nug runs and the nug runs even a seasoned dabber like myself cant handle them too well, its fucking potent.

A question for you though, the chamber in which you have your filter sit is it a dewaxing spool?
Ive been doing it in a dewaxing spool but its awkward to add dry ice with the system ihave wondering if some of the forzen particles would warm up and homogenize to the solution again?
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
I put mine in a 6" X 12" sanitary spool, which clamps on the bottom of the dump valve, with the dewax column on the top of the dump valve, and the extraction column on the top of the dewax column.

Yes, some of the wax can go back in solution if it warms up.
 

Aj struhar

Active Member
The sock filter goes under the valve, under the dewax column. You don't need a stainless wool roughing filter with a sock, but if you were running a large amount of material, it would extend the life of the sock.
What type sock and where can i get one? Also how do I go about mixing propane in with my r-600 n-tane? That will help with the slurry and cold temperatures and color and quality correct?
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
What type sock and where can i get one? Also how do I go about mixing propane in with my r-600 n-tane? That will help with the slurry and cold temperatures and color and quality correct?
They come in different sizes, but I use a 4" X 8" polyethylene felt sock from Duda Diesel.

You pump the propane and butane into the holding tank one at a time by weight. Adding propane allows you to run at colder temperatures and still have reasonable flow.
 

cookie master

Well-Known Member
how does the 4x8 filter get installed into a 6 inch column? And, do you use the regular pe filter or the welded?
 
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Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
I designed a case for the filter, which I would share with you, but am currently in a lawsuit over who owns Graywolf Creations and Wolfwurx IP, so can't share it with you.

Take a look at the commercial cases for those filters, and and the filter itself. It is easy to design your own around a sanitary spool.
 

cookie master

Well-Known Member
I brainstormed and can add a sock filter to the stub extending off the bottom of my lid with a stainless clamp.. The base is 12 x12 so plenty of space in there. Ive put 10-12 lbs of tane in it and it looks like 2-3 inches deep so the 8 inch long filter would just hang above. I can even add a contraption like a stainless wire cage to hold the sock filter near the top to make sure it isnt soaking in butane. Other than that I was considering a circlip to hold it in the end of the dump valve, but im not sure how strong thatd hold.
 
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cookie master

Well-Known Member
that simple sock filter on a nub replaces over 100 in parts of the typical filter stack dewaxing. Even more considering the extra ball valve which is no longer necessary. And it sounds like it does a better job.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
that simple sock filter on a nub replaces over 100 in parts of the typical filter stack dewaxing. Even more considering the extra ball valve which is no longer necessary. And it sounds like it does a better job.
If I'm reading you right, you have the sock filter installed in the collection tank, clamped to the bottom of a shortened down tube, so the filter is suspended above the pool. The proof is in the testing, but I have some concern that having the liquid spray in all directions through the filter, could en-train liquid into the relatively high velocity pump intake port, if this is an active system.
 

cookie master

Well-Known Member
I havent bought the filter yet but im gonna try it this way. Its a passive system and Im setup with a dewax column but hadnt bought the filter plates yet. Im gonna get some 4x8 and some 7 inch wide filters too so it wont have to hang too deep.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
I havent bought the filter yet but im gonna try it this way. Its a passive system and Im setup with a dewax column but hadnt bought the filter plates yet. Im gonna get some 4x8 and some 7 inch wide filters too so it wont have to hang too deep.
It should work OK passively.
 

Aj struhar

Active Member
They come in different sizes, but I use a 4" X 8" polyethylene felt sock from Duda Diesel.

You pump the propane and butane into the holding tank one at a time by weight. Adding propane allows you to run at colder temperatures and still have reasonable flow.
Thanks. Figured it was something simple like
They come in different sizes, but I use a 4" X 8" polyethylene felt sock from Duda Diesel.

You pump the propane and butane into the holding tank one at a time by weight. Adding propane allows you to run at colder temperatures and still have reasonable flow.
There's so many to choose from on that website which one do you use?
 

Aj struhar

Active Member
I designed a case for the filter, which I would share with you, but am currently in a lawsuit over who owns Graywolf Creations and Wolfwurx IP, so can't share it with you.

Take a look at the commercial cases for those filters, and and the filter itself. It is easy to design your own around a sanitary spool.
Well good luck with everything! Would this be a good sock? The plastic ring is okay??
 

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Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Well good luck with everything! Would this be a good sock? The plastic ring is okay??
For my design, I used the one you have the screen shot of, but Sweet leaf used one with a simple metal ring in the top, so it snaps into position.

I made a seat for the one with the plastic ring, and held it against the seat with the lid.
 

Aj struhar

Active Member
For my design, I used the one you have the screen shot of, but Sweet leaf used one with a simple metal ring in the top, so it snaps into position.

I made a seat for the one with the plastic ring, and held it against the seat with the lid.
Perfect thank you
 
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Aj struhar

Active Member
For my design, I used the one you have the screen shot of, but Sweet leaf used one with a simple metal ring in the top, so it snaps into position.

I made a seat for the one with the plastic ring, and held it against the seat with the lid.
So I received my filter in the mail today and I'm a little bit skeptical about this plastic ring on the top??? Do you cut that off? Also how do you wash it? Thanks for all your advice! I really appreciate your time.
 
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