Landrace Indoor Anyone???

I am a product of the sixties...My introduction to pot was the sativa types that came to my campus environment first from Mexico then Columbia Thailand and Hawaii...My introduction to MJ horticulture came in those days from growing the bag seed from the "four finger $25 lids" of Acapulco Gold, Panama Red, Thai and Maui Wowii.

Back then could camouflage a grow in sugar cane fields in South Florida.

So what is the point of this thread??? Indoor Landrace Grow Thoughts & Techniques"

I miss the buz from the the old daze...I miss Steppenwolf, Jerry Garcia & Water Buffalo Sandals too.

I now live in a non-MMJ state so my grows are indoor and I have had several runs of landrace African and Asian strains...These strains have long-long flower times, relatively low yields, manageability & plant size issues..Not exactly hard to grow but cultivation, at least for me, headaches.

Sooo...Here is how I did the last one, Malawi Gold, indoors...Soil grow in seven gallon smarties which I believe is small judging from the size of the bound up root ball and the number of nute problems over a 24-26 week grow...Two harvests based on trichome "withering". The nute problem was salt build up over the long grow...Bi weekly flush and rebalance...Lifting soaked seven gallon pots with a four foot tree out of a tent in my basement not my idea of a good time.

My method is to cut the leader at 6-7 node depending on inter node distance then trim undergrowth about halfway to get a "peach tree" kinda look to even out the canopy.

Then eight weeks veg at 20/4...One week 18/6...Two weeks 14/10 and then 12/12...I have my own theories on hormone photo activation...Not important here and now.

Flowering...Wish I had taken pics...Interesting in that the flowers start out very fine texture, thin sparse then thicken get denser but not dense, wispy. Not what you might be used to seeing in a sativa hybrid...Not much bag appeal when viewed next to Super Silver Haze or an indica hybrid.

I am not good at reporting on the effects of meds I consume but the stimulation is cerebral, somewhat psychedelic for me...More important, again to me, is the time travel the OLD TIME LANDRACES provide to the contentment and euphoria I felt when my neckties were worn as headbands and most of my attention was focused on growing pot and my Fu Man Chu.

Really wish I had an outdoor opportunity now...Columbia Gold or Jamaican Blue Mountain would top my list.

So please share why you do OR don't bother with pure strains...Please add techniques/references too if you have them...FWIW

To be clear, you're talking about landrace sativas. Landrace indicas are no trick to grow indoors.

Have done it (you can see my grow report on Mexican schwagg below as one example). . .these are my thoughts.

-You need space, probably a bare minimum of 3-4 vertical feet for most of these. This is not for "microgrows".

-To help reduce ridiculous stretch one trick is to take rooted clones, then put them directly into 12-12. Since they're mature, they'll go right into flowering and this can save you 1-2 vertical feet in height.

-You'll want to top the plants and train them to grow sideways for a while. . .how you do this (SCROG, tying down, "LST") doesn't matter so much, just that you do it.

-You shouldn't expect great yields from the more "exotic" lines.

-Hermies are common enough that you should be surprised if you DON'T have any. Shouldn't make a lick of difference if you're only growing one plant, and even less if you're really living in the 1970s and like seeded buds, but this could make say, trying to grow one landrace in a room full of clone hybrids prohibitive.

-Some of these lines don't ever want to "finish" flowering. Turning down the hours of light below 12-12 can help there.

Hang your bulbs vertically and you don't need so many tricks growing tall plants (a couple bulbs = 5-6ft tall plants well covered no problem).

I think I'd want to supplement the entire light spectrum too to ensure best results. UVB etc.

Good luck.

1. Who as Columbian gold s33ds? (OK OK I noticed Gage as them)
2 Growing landrace is more down to pheno hunting and ability to train.

As most true landrace are IBLs with many phenos you could get one that fills an 8 ft cupboard fast and one that fills it normal.
You could also fill in a screen of green, sativas love this method, I imagine a pure sativa in 15l pots could wrap itself around a 1Meter/2

Jogro said:

To be clear, you're talking about landrace sativas. Landrace indicas are no trick to grow indoors.

Have done it (you can see my grow report on Mexican schwagg below as one example). . .these are my thoughts.

-You need space, probably a bare minimum of 3-4 vertical feet for most of these. This is not for "microgrows".

-To help reduce ridiculous stretch one trick is to take rooted clones, then put them directly into 12-12. Since they're mature, they'll go right into flowering and this can save you 1-2 vertical feet in height.

-You'll want to top the plants and train them to grow sideways for a while. . .how you do this (SCROG, tying down, "LST") doesn't matter so much, just that you do it.

-You shouldn't expect great yields from the more "exotic" lines.

-Hermies are common enough that you should be surprised if you DON'T have any. Shouldn't make a lick of difference if you're only growing one plant, and even less if you're really living in the 1970s and like seeded buds, but this could make say, trying to grow one landrace in a room full of clone hybrids prohibitive.

-Some of these lines don't ever want to "finish" flowering. Turning down the hours of light below 12-12 can help there.

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Jogro...Will check out your bag seed grow, thanx, you may have addressed this question there but will ask anyway...First, yes sativas, I find the indicas well behaved too..The question; when taking the rooted clone and going to the 12/12 light cycle what size container? Do you transplant during flower? My transplants are done in veg as a rule. I think you know I am into lots of roots and big leaves to get big buds but at some point I hit diminishing returns. That's the reason for the thread...I am an old dog looking for new tricks.

I do a modified LST with hybrid sativas usually for four large colas so I am into bondage...The kinda tree form I did with the Malawi takes up about 3x3 in a 5x5 flower tent...That's the diminishing return barrier I was referring to...Not to mention almost 6mo TLC for a 5oz return...Quality over quantity.

Not gotten "hermies", same sex flowers, but had monecious "nanners" sprout on fems...Just gotta keep an eye out, they are pretty easy to spot get them early.

Can't really adjust lights cause in the flower tent with other strains...Thanks, looking forward to your reply...FWIW

OGEvilgenius said:

Hang your bulbs vertically and you don't need so many tricks growing tall plants (a couple bulbs = 5-6ft tall plants well covered no problem).

I think I'd want to supplement the entire light spectrum too to ensure best results. UVB etc.

Good luck.

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Hey OGE, I do a continuous harvest type grow of several strains at the same time...I have a 3x3 veg tent and a 5x5 flower tent...In the veg tent I run a "Hydrogro 189X convertable LED" and 1000w "Growlite OG" in the flower tent. The landrace grows were a trip down memory lane for two hippies turned yuppie...I would really like to try plasma supplemented with LED vertical grow but that is for another thread perhaps when more money grows on trees (g).

Have you tried a landrace sativa in vertical?

Thanx

canna_420 said:

1. Who as Columbian gold s33ds? (OK OK I noticed Gage as them)
2 Growing landrace is more down to pheno hunting and ability to train.

As most true landrace are IBLs with many phenos you could get one that fills an 8 ft cupboard fast and one that fills it normal.
You could also fill in a screen of green, sativas love this method, I imagine a pure sativa in 15l pots could wrap itself around a 1Meter/2

Click to expand...

Hi canna, World of Ceeds and Holy Smoke have heritage stuff...I have not shopped for landrace for a while...I got the Malawi from Afropips but that was almost four years ago. I think they went tits up. There was a guy around several years ago called "Reservation Labs" I followed on International Cannagraphic. He dropped out of sight and I saw today that he (supposedly him) posted on another thread here on RIU...I know nothing about him other than what I read. He had a following there, on IC, though...FWIW

Natural Gas said:

Hey OGE, I do a continuous harvest type grow of several strains at the same time...I have a 3x3 veg tent and a 5x5 flower tent...In the veg tent I run a "Hydrogro 189X convertable LED" and 1000w "Growlite OG" in the flower tent. The landrace grows were a trip down memory lane for two hippies turned yuppie...I would really like to try plasma supplemented with LED vertical grow but that is for another thread perhaps when more money grows on trees (g).

Have you tried a landrace sativa in vertical?

Thanx

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No, but I have done several highly sativa dominant hybrids that are stretchy as hell with good results. My concern with landraces is the spectrum of light, especially with sativas. Actually, almost exclusively with sativas as they are all equitorial and it's difficult to replicate that kind of spectrum indoors. The plasma idea might be worthy. I'd be interested to see how that worked out for you, but yeah, kind of pricey.

OGE, I agree with you on equatorial light replication...There is no substitute for the sun straight over head all year. Kind explains why they take their sweet time to flower...However... http://www.innovativegrowlights.com/gavita-plasma-fixtures-1/ ... Steve, at the Innovative link I posted is another "Evil Genius" but with light configuration...I have talked with him about vertical with plasma and LED...Steve wants to do it (plasma + LED) incorporating an "Omega Garden"...I can only go as fast my pocket book...I think I will make the jump to LED in my 5x5 with 3 more Hydrogro 189s adding the one from the veg tent and replacing that one with a 600w Cooltube...Maybe that will happen this year.

Are you familiar with the airy, wispy bud I described in the opening thread? When I travel to MMJ states I hit some med shops looking for landrace and to check out various hybrid bud looking for a strain with the characteristics that might be a little more manageable...What are you working with now?

The outdoor growers, 4, that I know in NC and Va are doing their own pollen chuckin' or growing the latest "High Times" cup winner...I am spreading the left over ceeds from my past landrace grows among them...I am hesitant (means I am not going to) to follow them into the woods to check on a plant but this coming November it will beat having nothing...Thanx for the reply...FWIW

Natural Gas said:

When taking the rooted clone and going to the 12/12 light cycle what size container? Do you transplant during flower?

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This isn't as straightforward as it seems. Container size should be proportionate to final plant size and that's a function of how much space and light you have. Since I'm growing super-small, what works for me may not be optimal for you.

I think a rule of thumb that many people use is that you want about 1 gallon of pot size per foot of final plant size, though I think you can do perfectly fine with somewhat less than that. Obviously, really small pots will limit plant size, so there is a practical minimum there, but typically the limiting factor with these types of grows is controlling the vertical height. Second limiting factor is amount of available light. With a 5 foot high tent and a 1000W light, I think you've got more than enough wattage and space to run one of these from ceed-to-flower without too much trouble.

No, as a general rule, I don't transplant during flower; I try to get the plant into the final pot before I go to 12-12. That said, you do what you have to do. If you need to move to a larger container during flower, it shouldn't hurt much, especially if you're transplanting at the very beginning of a long sativa-type flower. The question is really, what are you trying to accomplish?

On the bag seed grow, that entire grow report was somewhat of an afterthought, so I didn't really provide the same sort of pictures/details that I did with the other reports I had.

What I did there was plant the ceed into a cup, then once I had a few sets of leaves transplant into a 3 quart container. Then while still soft and bendable, I "spiral trained" the plant to run around the pot perimeter by sequentially tying it down with twist-ties. This created maybe 5 or 6 tops and reduced plant height by about 8" or so. Then, I transplanted into a 3 gallon container and put a SCROG on top to spread out the tops further. Plant got maybe another 1-2 weeks veg time to grow into the new container, and then I flowered. Stretch on flower was considerable, the plant really started shooting up for about 2 weeks after going to 12-12 the way a lot of these do.

Now, I'm not really sure that you could properly term this plant a "landrace". Don't know if commercial grown Mexican from the late 1990s qualifies or not, and the truth is, while I'm wild-ass guessing that my plant was Michoacan, the truth is I have no idea where it was grown or what its genetic background is. But I can definitely say it was a mostly (or maybe entirely) sativa plant, and it went for a full 13 weeks. As OGevilgenius says, the same rules that apply to sativa-heavy hybrids apply to landraces; you just have to deal with a little more stretch and a little longer flowering times.

Transplanting during flower isn't something that I'd consider, but I have seen it recommended to help keep plant size down by some who grow a lot of landrace varieties. To me, the extra stress (especially since some have intersex characteristics) wouldn't be worth it.

The sativa hybrids I'm growing stretch 300%. Sannies Sugar Punch/Killing Fields. I've got some NLxHaze that I want to stick in the tent soon too - they are probably way too large though at this point. Got a little over anxious on the bean popping.... going to take some clones of those and grow em out a couple weeks and then fill the room I think.

Sugar Punch can have some more indica dominant phenotypes, but they are all still predominantly sativa in my experience with 6 girls. The last two I harvested were very clear headed and really didn't have any notable indica influence IMO. It's a great hybrid, I have a long review in the smoke report section you should check out if you're interested.

I'd say Killing Fields is a clearer more functional smoke, at least the phenotype I found that I liked. Probably a bit harder to find "the one" in a pack of Killing Fields than it is in a pack of Sugar Punch IMO.

Killing Fields is perhaps the most beautiful plant I've ever grown however and is a real winner for daytime.

Heavy Yielder too. The KF. Sugar Punch has some heavy yielding phenotypes as well.

Yeah I use to smoke all that stuff, columbian gold, panama red etc. Seemed incredibly trippy and for me quite narcotic as well. I know you don't hear sativas refered to as narcotic. That's usually reserved for indicas, but I use to get so High I would be laying on the floor not able to get up after smoking a quantity of it. And by quantity I don't mean that much, stuff was potent as hell, but real friendly too.

However I've yet to see any pure landrace exotic sativa grown indoors, that performed anything like I remember smoking.

I've tried these long term sativas indoors again and again. And from what I've seen it's never really worth the wait.

I think you need to be growing hybrids indoors, they seem to perform much better.

I recently grew out, some Afghan Peshwar and some Bhutanese. The Bhutanese had a ditchweed flavor to it, I wasn't very impressed with it. But still it was a superior product to the 400 dollar an ounce rock hard crystal nugs you see floating around on average. But then I'm not very impressed with most bud I see anyway...

But I think there is better fare to be had. I liked Dinafem's Blue Hash much better. It was 11 weeks flowering and a good yielder, with strong flavor and a good buzz. Flowering time was a bit long on the Blue Hash at 11 weeks. But the Bhutanese was 16 weeks flowering...

OGEvilgenius said:

Transplanting during flower isn't something that I'd consider, but I have seen it recommended to help keep plant size down by some who grow a lot of landrace varieties. To me, the extra stress (especially since some have intersex characteristics) wouldn't be worth it.

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I agree with that entirely. There are many things you can do to keep overall height down; don't see why you'd need to deliberately shock plants with transplantation as one of them. I'd add also that stressing plants can not only induce intersex flowers, but also prolong flowering times.

Vincent VonBlown said:

However I've yet to see any pure landrace exotic sativa grown indoors, that performed anything like I remember smoking.

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I think this is a real issue.

By definition, landrace strains are acclimated to growing in a particular geographic location over hundreds of generations. These plants WANT to grow outside. . .and not just "any" outside, but the specific outside where the came from.

You're just never going to be able to replicate the exact soil pH and nutrient content, temperature variations, UV-light conditions, humidity, etc, in your grow tent. Consequently, even if you a great job as a grower, you still may not be able to replicate exactly what's special about these landraces at home.

For what its worth, some think that seeded bud has different cannabinoid ratios than unseeded, and that this factor may partly explain the unique effect of old-school landraces. Are you going to deliberately open-pollinate your indoor grow bud? Most growers won't do this, I don't think.

I think if you want a sativa/haze effect, then you'll probably be happier finding some hybridized sativa plant better suited for indoor growing.

To paraphrase breeder Reeferman here on the topic, most growers who THINK they want to be growing landraces, ACTUALLY want to be growing good hybrids.

Jogro, you are like a MJ genius. You leave a lot of good stuff on these boards.

I have found most sativa will give a good narcotic indica effect when over indulged?

I keeping thinking about grabbing some Mrnice Walkabout. I have read a few times some really amazing plants pop up. Only problem is if I found my new favorite I wouldn't even know what it is unless Shanti was able to positively identify it for me? Small problem in exchange for a great plant?

althor said:

Jogro, you are like a MJ genius. You leave a lot of good stuff on these boards.

Click to expand...

I don't know about the first thing, but I try to make a contribution. You're welcome.

Bigtacofarmer said:

I have found most sativa will give a good narcotic indica effect when over indulged?

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Are you asking if other people have had this experience? I've never tried "overdosing" on any real landraces, expect the schwagg, and I don't think it ever gave me a true narcotic-like effect.

I think common side effects of overindulgence in the real sativas include racing heart and paranoia. . .and yeah, I've had that.

Typically the pure sativas are described as "no ceiling". . .the more you smoke, the "higher" you get, and when you get really high doses, you can start to get a psychedelic like trippy effect.

Ultimately it comes down to which cannabinoids are in there and also in what proportion/ratios. The "narcotic" effect is usually associated with CBD mixed in with the THC.

Typically the tropical/equatorial landraces that people talk about (Thai, Malawi, etc) that people talk about don't have much (or any) CBD in there.

THCV (which is found in African strains, among others) is the one that's the most "psychedelic".

I keeping thinking about grabbing some Mrnice Walkabout. I have read a few times some really amazing plants pop up. Only problem is if I found my new favorite I wouldn't even know what it is unless Shanti was able to positively identify it for me? Small problem in exchange for a great plant?

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As a matter of practice, its unlikely he'd personally identify it for you.

If you got good pictures and posted the on the Mr. Nice forum *maybe* you'd get a good response from one of the poster there, but even then, I don't know.

If you found your new favorite, at least maybe YOU'D be able to recognize it in your next batch of ceeds. If you were careful, you could also try to re-veg/clone this plant so you could grow it again.

THCV I believe was demonstrated to be non psychoactive, but when in combination with THC, could produce profound effects.

Shanti is actually pretty good about responding to PM's and stuff so I'm told on his board. He might help you out. I have a pack of Walkabout kicking around as well. Pretty interested to see what it contains eventually.

Jogro said:

If you found your new favorite, at least maybe YOU'D be able to recognize it in your next batch of ceeds. If you were careful, you could also try to re-veg/clone this plant so you could grow it again.

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I always save a backup clone, learned this lesson long ago.

As for the narcotic effect comments I have never smoked any true landraces other than what I may have found a shipment of commercial (I have had some amazing unidentified commercial import), and I suspect most import these days isn't true landrace so much as the same seeds we can buy. So my comments are more about sativa dom hybrids, I apologize. I guess by narcotic I mean that drilled into your seat, maybe I could get up but why try feeling, which can be trippy too.

I'd love to have the ceiling room to really explore the sativa side of things, I have started to make room for some queen size sativas though. So far I've ran Escobars blue sativa, MrNice Skunk haze, and two of Neville Grail (oaxocan and munimbly). I'm hooked on the Oax and I have only ran 2 seeds of that on so far so I expect good thing from the other 8.

Bigtacofarmer said:

I always save a backup clone, learned this lesson long ago.

As for the narcotic effect comments I have never smoked any true landraces other than what I may have found a shipment of commercial (I have had some amazing unidentified commercial import), and I suspect most import these days isn't true landrace so much as the same seeds we can buy. So my comments are more about sativa dom hybrids, I apologize. I guess by narcotic I mean that drilled into your seat, maybe I could get up but why try feeling, which can be trippy too.

I'd love to have the ceiling room to really explore the sativa side of things, I have started to make room for some queen size sativas though. So far I've ran Escobars blue sativa, MrNice Skunk haze, and two of Neville Grail (oaxocan and munimbly). I'm hooked on the Oax and I have only ran 2 seeds of that on so far so I expect good thing from the other 8.

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It is great when a good thread takes off with knowledgeable folks...I am enjoying the read...Would like to contribute...No good friends of mine showed up with St. Pat's Day brownies...Moderation has never been my strong suit...Please, please keep it going...FwIw