Kellogg's organic granular

1337hacker said:

Thanks as always DG. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Got me some EM-1 in the fridge right now... gonna extend it into some aEM, and then get using it. Where do you source your neem meal from? I wanted to get some for my bed but was having trouble finding it.

Somewhere I have a chart of the macro/micro nutrient breakdowns for a bunch of common substances... I'll link it here if I find it for anyone interested in making their own veganic line and cutting out the expenses

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DesertGuru said:

Teas are great, cannot beat them . Yeah we have been using cover crops\catch crops for a long time, alfalfa sends deep taproots down into the soil for soil aeration and conditioning. Alfalfa meal contains great microbes that supercharge your soils microorganisms into make the food readily available to your plants. I would not do a grow without alfalfa if you paid me. Another unique feature of alfalfa meal is a naturally occurring compound called Triacontanol. Triacontanol is a growth hormone that boosts plant growth in just about all species of plants. Its effect is short term and best used as a teas.

Fermented plant extracts work differently. Alfalfa has some great compounds in her, such as triacontanol. if you want to extract the compounds you need to soak the plant material to a point(a tea), but not let it begin to ferment. So my first question would be is what is your specific intended use for it? If your looking for a FPE, for a liquid, plant based fertilizer you can use EM-1 for an expedited extraction and you will end up with a concentrate that will contain all of the elements (not compounds)that are contained in whatever specific plant your usuing.
Having EM-1 in your fermented plant extract with whatever carb source(molasses or your sugar) will speed up the enzyme reactions greatly. If not using EM-1, and just relying on indigenous bacteria it can take a month(30-45 days) or longer for a good fermentation to occur(ph should be around 3 when done). EM-1 is basically lactobacillus cultures, some yeasts, etc. Basically plant material that has been treated with lacto cultures - enough to prevent rotting(hence miso, yogurt, and all the other fermented foods). These anaerobic(not to be confused with aerobic) microbes completely and totally break-down the "molecular" bond of the compounds found in that specific plant.
This is my understanding, the way I have been taught. Extract elements using EM-1. Very fast and will get all of your elements. To keep the compounds from breaking into elements and there sub divisions of secondary units. Then simply brew the plant material in straight water. You don't need or want to add anything else.

Get some alfalfa meal, fish meal or neem meal in there for your nitrogen. Each of them will have secondary uses, if you have fungus gnats use neem meal, they will be gone faster then a lightning bolt(within 1-2 waterings for sure, usually 1). If your looking for growth hormones and help make your nutrients soluble use the alfalfa. Fish.. I just use fish meal cause fish are c*nts lol.

Good growing

time for a smoke
DG

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DesertGuru said:

I order my neem online from http://www.neemresource.com/

Yeah post that link up if you find it. In the mean time you can check this article out "plants in the rescue to plants" http://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=3164873867231346

DG

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1337hacker said:

Ordered up some neem cake and neem oil to give them a try. Would be nice to see how the neem stacks up to dynagro, though I couldn't see how you can get better than 100 % neem in the first place

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Bird Gymnastics said:

My soil mix consists of 30% peat moss, 30% coco fiber, 20% EWC, 10% perlite, 5% kelp meal, 5% compost. I have found my mix to be lacking a little bit of nitrogen so supplementing it with beet vinasse hasn't been so bad.im just tired of spending $30 a liter for my base and $100 a liter for my fermented sugar cane.

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DesertGuru said:

Kellogg's has been around for decades(70+ years ago started in orange county, ca). I heard sometime in the past 2 years or so this company was bought by SunGro Horticulture in of British Columbia.
Sun Gro makes the Sunshine Mixes, Black Gold Potting Soils and amendments, etc. They're the largest packer of soils in North America. Good stuff from what I have seen.
High quality standards and ingredients.

How subcool can call it his soil mix, when he has people using store bought soil as a base? All the guy is doing is adding a few amendments to somebody else mix and calling it his own. Laughable at best.
You make his "supersoil mix", then you let it set for 30 days(just like any organic mix).....at transplant, fill 30-50% of your pot with the supersoil, filling the remainder with base soil (Roots organics, Fox Farm Ocean Forest, etc. wtf?)

Once you learn about organics his mix becomes even more funny. What I find unbelievable is the amount of people that rant about and buy into this junk.

Go buy some Canadian sphagnum peat moss. The best stuff is readily available and very cheap. Most hardware here in AZ have the Premier brand, wallfart has it as well its called greensmix. After that, I would go with something like this:

40% peat
30% perlite or rice hulls(farm store a lot cheaper)
30% EWC (make sure its high quality, not cardboard and newspaper fed worms.)

Once you got that mixed, all of the other amendments would be added based on the total volume on hand of soil\fert. I prefer the Espoma plant tone over the kellogg but both are good(tomato, citrus or vegetable tone).

To each 1 c.f. of potting soil I add the following:
4 - 5 cups of Canadian Glacial Rock Dust or Azomite
1.5 cups of a mix I make up that consists of equal parts of kelp, neem and crab meal.

Yours would look like per 1 c.f
3-5 cups of mineral Glacial rock dust or azomite
1-3 cups kellog or espoma plant tone

Water on most days with a weekly application of some botanical tea - Comfrey, Yarrow, dandelion.
Nutrient teas are welcome as well, kelp, alfalfa, etc..
Actively aerated compost tea(ACT\AACT) once in veg, once at the beginning of flower for your microbes

Youll be more then rocking and on your way as long as you got your light and air circulation taking care of.





Im still confused why people are using more expensive, inferior products to what they could make themselves for pennies on the dollar.

Hope to have helped some.

DG

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DesertGuru said:

Everything is pretty much information.. You can get as simple or as crazy complex as you want. I like simple and cost effective. I learned growing (vegetables, herbs) from family when I was young. Internet and friends in Oregon have taken my knowledge further.

Soil - If you look at what comprises any soil in the world at is very essense it is rock dust or crushed rocks, composted/rotting organic material (Dead animals, plants materials, turtles, humans lol, worms) nothing more. Anything else in the soil is considered an amendment.
So if you go to Africa and grow or decide to live in Alabama, you will understand what is going on.
two most important things:
First, the most important dire part of your soil is your compost (humus source). Good compost, thermal compost that went through a hot/cooking period or HIGH quality earth worm castings. This is the cornerstone of organic growing, again your humus source. The compost is a pile of life, and if you can make your own it's better . If you get your compost source correct you will have little to worry about. Check craigslist to source some real worm castings if need be. Grow shops lol.. yeah. Your new shopping place will become farm/feed stores.

Basically the composted organic matter has fulvic and humic acids in it. These acids control water ph among other things. If the science did not work that way and food growers had to tend to their crops like cannabis growers have been fooled into, they would be paying 10x as much for any given fruit or vegetable.

After that, the second most important and crucial part is soil preparation. You mix your food mix, like Espoma Plant Tone or any other high quality organic food, with your base soil mix. My soil mix is: 40% peat, 30% rice hulls and 30% homemade ewc. Then this mix is set for anywhere from a few weeks to a couple months; in organics, this period is called nutrient cycling. This is important for the microbial activity in the soil, like bacterias, fungi, and so on with the food chain. Generations of these microbes come and go. The key is that the nutrients never leave, staying in one form or another and waiting to get gobbled up by your plants.
Once you take care of those two components you're good to go. The microbes in the soil work with the roots the plants exudative acids. They send out chemicals that signal the right microbes to the mycorrhiza area to fulfill the plants nutrient desires. Its the system that outdates me, you and the rest of the nutrient companies.
With new garden beds you need to establish a good, fertile soil structure before you can expect good results with the no-till/mulch method.

You can supplement waterings with whatever you feel your plant needs. Some organic growers will use humic acid to keep the levels high, but ther's no real need if your humus source are covered. Adding a top dress of worm castings after every 2 waterings can get depleted acids back in.

Lol if you filled those beds with fox farm ocean forest again yuck. 17 dollars per 1.5 cf. you need 14 bags for 21 c.f. hmm.. $238 before tax and gas to the hydro store. So lets say you get the nice guy, bend over the barrel hydro store discount. You get them for 15 dollars a bag on bulk $255 for 20 cf.

or... example of 20 c.f. super duper alleyooper ocean sky forest you can make mix

BASE MIX & COMPOST
40% 2 bales (8 c.f.) of premier peat(same makers as sunshine mixes) moss 2.2 cf compressed, 4cf uncompressed from home depot $20
30% 2 bales of rice hulls from the feed store $ less the 20
30% worm castings or thermal compost- free for me. Craigslist has them for cheap 20lbs is 5-20 bucks

FOOD & MINERAL MIX
Espoma plant tone home depot $20 for two 8lb bags
44lb bag of azomite from the hydro store( AIEEEE!!!! LoL atleast you get to look at all the fancy dancy labels and price tags) $40
1 gallon aloe vera juice for a wetting agent+ more benificials $8
hmm...
Add in food mix 1-2 cups of espoma per cf of soil 20cf =20-40 cups
1-5 cups of azomite per cf 20-100 cups

Mix and let it sit for a few weeks. Apply an AACT (Actively Aerated Compost Tea) to the pile. So far better from ocean forest or any other dead anerobic (no oxygen, bad microbes) bagged soil. As for the cost... hmm $128 bucks before tax and gas. If you pay 20 bucks for 20lbs of worm castings. That leaves me .. 110 bucks for 55lbs alfalfa meal, 55lbs kelp meal, a nice bottle of Dynagro Protekt (silica), which is similar to Botanicare Silica Blast, but not watered down to have money made on it, and probably not at the hydro store. Look at real nurseries.

What soil you working with right now? Smart man not going with that stuff lol. I would just topdress it with some earthworm castings and espoma plant tone. Bubble up some aact tea and treat your soil with it for microbes if your working with something half way decent. Don't use chemical salt ferts or bottles it upsets all the microbes and kills them.

I feed the soil and microbes, which feed the plants. Most growers are feeding just the plants roots having to chase ph and hope they get the food the plant needs with a dead lifeless medium.

Good growing

Be safe
DG

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