I've Wondered This For Quite A Few Years Now...
- Thread starter NietzscheKeen
- Start date
smokeytokeybear
Well-Known Member
well hmmmm, i think eventually we wpuld.make communication,
or have a breakdown
or have a breakdown
psilocybindude
Well-Known Member
It's funny that you bring up this question, quite a while ago i came up for this question for my self and the only answer i could seem to come up with is that with out language we would be animals, don't get me wrong here i've never been one to put the human race above animals so this didn't come as much of a shock to me, but there are a lot of people who seem to think that we are far above animals, when i say we would be animals with out language what i mean is that we would be almost purely instinctual in nature...
yoitsstoopkid
Member
That's an interesting thought man. I really find it impossible for humans to not have languange, it just doesn't make sense. Language is the reason we are human. It's in our DNA it's in our instincts. Being about to communicate to other beings through body language, eye contact, facial emotions, is the reason why we evolved. It's how we know how to act around others, what other's think of us, and guide us through or everyday decision making and human interaction. The reason man was able to survive as eveolving hundreds of thousands of years ago, without posing any danger to predators, is by communication. Without communication and living in packs/villages there is no way we would have ever developed intellect or any type of emotional intelligence. If you mean living life without any vocal language, I could see it happening in the far far future if we still exist. I new generation, the generation were 3 year olds have new ipads, is really the experimental batch of kids that will live life in a virtual world having their life impacted by the internet from birth. Growing up the kids consumed with having easy resources and tools always at their disposal will not develop their cognitive functions like we have been through evolution. If this outburst of technology and inovation continues there is no telling how human interaction will have changed in 300-500 years. We have really only been an intelligent species, what I would consider a "modern human" for 30000 - 40000 years and in near future we could see the downfall of our species. Never to be remembered again. This is all speculation and just my opinion, but I just don't see the hatred in the world decreasing in the world to a point to were chemical/nuclear/whatever else type of warfare will never stop decreasing. Think about what we did in 1945, with the atomic bombs. To put it in perspective, we didnt even get to the moon until 14 years later, and now think about what our technology has increased to. Human warfare and technology are on a crash course to our demise, and we have only ourselves to blame for it...
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
About a decade ago I read a pretty cool book written in 1976 entitled, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by Princeton University professor Dr. Julian Jaynes. It was a fascinating read. Jaynes attempted to take a look back through history to see from whence consciousness sprang. One of the most interesting ideas was that humans did not start off being conscious, and had to develop into consciousness, as consciousness requires language sophisticated enough to generate metaphor and analog models. Metaphor (using a known thing to describe something unknown) and analog models (i.e. making a map of a territory to represent an actual, much larger parcel of Earth), he stated, were a great development as a shortcut to learning and as tools to free up enough 'mind space' for consciousness to develop. He also showed that language is primarily a tool for thinking, not for communication. Without words, he contends, consciousness would not be possible. Words are all short representations of things in the actual world or abstract concepts, and concepts allow us to group things to classes (i.e. the concept of round - the moon, a wheel, my lover's pupil, etc. are all round). I think of it like having many data on a pc, but not being able to organize it into files and folders. It would be nearly impossible to locate useful data randomly in order to get anything done. Being able to think in words and concepts greatly reduces the time and effort it would take otherwise in a one precept or one noun at a time type way. And according to Jaynes (and I tend to agree) without them, we would not be thinking consciously at all...
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
I always thought it was a fascinating concept, to think about what it actually felt like, to be the first hominid to utter a sound that was not just a grunt, with the intent to describe an object outside of itself. In other words, the very first word. I wonder what it was, but most importantly, i wonder what it FELT like.
Dislexicmidget2021
Well-Known Member
Having no language whatsoever,I would imagine it to be a very bland existence.Our thoughts wouldnt have the variety or complexity for us to proceed as an intelligent species.It would seem to me that mindless autonomy would be the paradigm of our race,no thought corraboration,or ideas could be shared amongst ourselves,self beliefs may become far more accepted as reality -which would be potentialy dangerous-, as we would have no other reference of information other than our own minds and what we perceive things to be in reality.Its ultra important to have other points of view to learn from in existence,but without language there can be no relaying of ideas.I very much doubt that our ability to think rationaly would be in tact, as it would only be one tract of thought process circulating from our very own all the time.It would be terrible IMHO
psilocybindude
Well-Known Member
I couldn't tell you what it felt like but i can probably tell you what it was, and if you think about it its almost perfect, very basic and yet so much more "BOO BOOO BOOBS!"
MyPetSkunk
Active Member
To add to that: If a person is born blind, what do you think their dreams consist of?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I'd love to see some stoner philologists play Charades, and the target word is "the". cn
NietzscheKeen
Well-Known Member
Sounds, physical sensations, smells and tastes. You know how dreams often seem like real life to you? Well, imagine walking around doing stuff in your dream, but with your eyes closed. It probably wouldn't be much different than going about your daily life with your eyes closed; that sorta experience, but in dream form.
huklburryfin
Active Member
I've thought about this a little bit. It seems like words are a small part of thinking, but they may be what makes complex thoughts possible. We build up concepts through our senses, our ability to see patterns/associations and predict things, and then our psychology produces thoughts that are relevant to our current situation, and also our past experience. Animals can do all these things, but they probably don't hear the "voice in our head" [language] that we do, or at least in the same way. It seems like the "voice" is mostly there for communication. Words are labels for concepts, but they also seem to organize our thoughts, so I do think they help us think more efficiently about complex concepts.
I barely peeked at the wiki about that book by the scientist, but I saw that it talked about our minds having "2 chambers." That seems like a good explanation, from my observation, our brain produces the "real" thought, then turns it into the "voice" format, and the words make our thoughts communicable. Have you ever noticed that thinking about something is kind of like having a conversation with yourself? That kind of makes me think that the "voice" there mostly to turn our thoughts into something that can be expressed to another person, and doesn't necessarily make our thoughts "better", but I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.
I barely peeked at the wiki about that book by the scientist, but I saw that it talked about our minds having "2 chambers." That seems like a good explanation, from my observation, our brain produces the "real" thought, then turns it into the "voice" format, and the words make our thoughts communicable. Have you ever noticed that thinking about something is kind of like having a conversation with yourself? That kind of makes me think that the "voice" there mostly to turn our thoughts into something that can be expressed to another person, and doesn't necessarily make our thoughts "better", but I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.
MyPetSkunk
Active Member
You would also think that the older the blind person got, the better grasp he would have on what a lot of basic things looked like, as far as basic shapes. I guess the problem with being able to at least dream about the shapes, would be the fact that the person has never seen any colors to manifest to the shapes. Would definitely be a bummer.
Nutes and Nugs
Well-Known Member
Apes have the opposable thumb too but it's that one gene.
NietzscheKeen
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Can you imagine a new color? There is a thought experiment titled something like "Mary's Room", you should check it out.
Here is a video about it. I've never seen the video, so I don't know if it is any good.
[video=youtube;bX6NF8QYcmY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX6NF8QYcmY[/video]
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Was it a white room with black curtains near the station? cn
psilocybindude
Well-Known Member
Interesting...