Is The Conservative Movement Destroying The Middle Class?

50 percent of Americans pay no federal income taxes and a majority of those receive a tax rebate. 1 out of 7 Americans receive government assistance. You know who is destroying the middle class? The millions of Americans and illegal immigrants who are receiving handouts while they drive around with 2000 dollar rims on their cars, talking on their iphones, saying PLEASE Obama give us some more of other peoples money because we cant do anything for ourselves.

BudMcLovin said:

Buffet or Obama for that matter can pay in additional money to the federal government if they really wanted. Obama did say he didn't need the money and wanted to pay more. Why didn't he write a check, let him put his money where his mouth is but he won't.

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Of course they can and so cant you and I, thats not my point. When HUGE corporations are making record profits and YOU and I pay more taxes than they do there is a problem.....I know that the next argument is gonna be "those are the job creators".....I understand that they are "job creators" in title, but not in practice. Look it up, most of those very same corporations that had record profits actually and got tax REFUNDS cut jobs. So they are not creating jobs while thrie profits rise and they get a tax refund, yeah its so fair that most of us posting in this thread paid more in income taxes than say Exxon or GE

capncash said:

50 percent of Americans pay no federal income taxes and a majority of those receive a tax rebate. 1 out of 7 Americans receive government assistance. You know who is destroying the middle class? The millions of Americans and illegal immigrants who are receiving handouts while they drive around with 2000 dollar rims on their cars, talking on their iphones, saying PLEASE Obama give us some more of other peoples money because we cant do anything for ourselves.

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Im fully aware how bad the economy is right now, my business is a "luxury" business in that you dont NEED a tattoo. We are getting by and making $ but nowhere like it was say 6 years ago. I think that you fail to take into account the working poor, you know the people that work full time at Walmart, a restaurant or most any service business.

Im sure that illegal aliens are a part of the problem, but I know they arent the only problem or even one of the more significant problems. Corporate greed that is facilitated by our very government through the retarded tax code.. ...Dont get me wrong, I want to see business' succeed including mine. I just know that it isnt smart to give tax rebates to the biggest corporations while they ship jobs overseas. We reward companies for shutting down production here and shipping those jobs overseas. Not only do we lose jobs but we lose consumers and gain those that need assistance. A triple whammy that our tax code rewards with a tax rebate for the company......take a minute and walk around the kitchen or living room in your home and take out everything thats not made in the USA, you'll get my point real quick if you do.

Thanks to the work of democratic backed unions that demand wages and legacy costs which make USA products cost more than they are worth in the market.

You do realize it is "corporate greed" and these big evil businesses that employee the majority of Americans. I guess the Obama supporters will not be happy until 99% of Americans work for the government doing nonessential crap jobs with their salary being paid for by the other 1% of people that work for themselves.

I was the working poor for 10 years and you know what i did? I got 2 f ing jobs. Sorry people, sometimes you might have to work 16 hours a day. Get over it.

capncash said:

Thanks to the work of democratic backed unions that demand wages and legacy costs which make USA products cost more than they are worth in the market.

You do realize it is "corporate greed" and these big evil businesses that employee the majority of Americans. I guess the Obama supporters will not be happy until 99% of Americans work for the government doing nonessential crap jobs with their salary being paid for by the other 1% of people that work for themselves.

I was the working poor for 10 years and you know what i did? I got 2 f ing jobs. Sorry people, sometimes you might have to work 16 hours a day. Get over it.

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you crack me up. first of all, the market is something you should not be talking about if thou doesn't understand it.

first you should understand that most of the companies exporting jobs were profitable for years after unionized labor got us minimum wage and other wonderful perks not enjoyed in some of our 'supplier' countries...

yep, that's right. nothing about our 'oppressive' unionized tyranny held them back. what held them back was the lack of free trade agreements. which established 'red tape' which made outsourcing a pain in the ass and not worth it.

free trade agreements have passed and jobs have vanished. harley davidsons are assembled in India. lol....

hooray for free trade and de regulation.

ps. if you work 16 hours a day you deserve regular pay for the first 8 hours, and overtime pay for any additional hours worked. if you are on salary, you should ask for reasonable accomodation. it's your rights as a person not to be treated as a SLAVE.

which is what the puppet masters would LOVE to return to. and they kind of have... ever seen the sweatshops in pakistan??? google it. 12 yr old kids making the world cup soccer balls. those puppies sold for around 170 dollars a piece.

that's the market... you know, making sure things don't cost as much as they are 'worth'.... lol...

capncash said:

1 out of 7 Americans receive government assistance....illegal immigrants...

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capncash said:

...democratic backed unions...

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government assistance and illegals and unions, OH MY!

heavens to betsy, you are a good little consumer of fox news, aren't you?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2b5_1280670442&comments=1

The most thorough study on the fiscal and economic impact of immigration was done by the non-partisan Texas Comptrollers’ Office in 2006, which showed Texas earned more in taxes and economic output from illegal immigrants than governments spent to provide services.


According to the Comptrollers’ office, state and local governments spent $1.16 billion to provide services like education, health care and safety, but raised an estimated $1.58 billion in tax revenues. Based on the data, the Texas taxpayer made a $424.7 million profit on its illegal immigrant population in 2006.


Fiscally, illegal immigrants contribute mostly to state and local coffers primarily through sales and property taxes, which are mostly unavoidable. A majority of illegal immigrants pay federal, state and local income tax as well - 50% to 75%, according the Congressional Budget office.


Figures found in studies such as Texas’ 2006 study, or another 2007 study by the CBO, which did a survey of all data for the past 30 years and concluded that fiscal impact of services provided to illegal immigrants “is mostly modest,” stands in contrast to political rhetoric that fueled the passage of Arizona SB1070.


“The additional economic activity and tax revenue that undocumented workers provide to state and local governments simply overwhelms the fiscal cost to provide services,” said Dan Griswald, an immigration policy expert with the libertarian think tank CATO Institute.

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that is the CATO institute saying that, not exactly a bastion of liberalism

i bet you might have missed this...

http://wonkette.com/448250/crops-rotting-in-georgia-since-illegal-alien-farm-workers-fled-state

WHOOPS: Georgia’s legal promise to crucify any illegal immigrants it could get its hands on did, in fact, have the intended effect of scaring away the state’s undocumented workers. So, lo and behold, there are no workers left to harvest all of the state’s crops. Is America ready for forced labor again? Maybe this will solve the obesity epidemic? Georgia farmers are currently 11,000 workers short, and a failure to fill the ranks will cripple the state agricultural industry. Haha, there will be no food, this will solve the obesity problem, too!


The state has been trying to encourage some of the state’s unemployed probationers to join chain gangs harvest crews before ALL the crops rot in the fields, but probationers have not so far worked as quickly or as hard as the space aliens do with their magical powers.

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i wonder where those 11,000 workers they need would come from? there has to be at least that many people out of work in georgia. where is that red state work ethic?

redivider said:

ps. if you work 16 hours a day you deserve regular pay for the first 8 hours, and overtime pay for any additional hours worked.

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he should probably thank "union thugs" for that, too

capncash said:

Thanks to the work of democratic backed unions that demand wages and legacy costs which make USA products cost more than they are worth in the market.

Oh yeah the "evil unions" are to blame for the business making a record profit and cutting jobs at the same time. You realize they are making RECORD PROFIT, they arent losing any money right?

You do realize it is "corporate greed" and these big evil businesses that employee the majority of Americans. I guess the Obama supporters will not be happy until 99% of Americans work for the government doing nonessential crap jobs with their salary being paid for by the other 1% of people that work for themselves.

I was the working poor for 10 years and you know what i did? I got 2 f ing jobs. Sorry people, sometimes you might have to work 16 hours a day. Get over it.

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Cry me a fucking river about having to work 2 jobs, did it for years myself. Do the math, if you work for minimum wage (pretty fucking likely if you live in Texas thanks to Rick Perry) working 2 jobs at 40 hours isnt gonna pay shit. I couldnt even pay my mortgage and property taxes on that shit. Maybe youre young, but it wasnt too long ago if you worked 2 full time minimum wage jobs you could do better than the average American does now. Wages have been stagnant for 98% of our country as record profits have risen and corporate profits are at an all time high.

I just wanna make sure I have this correct, you think that its fair for you as an individual to have a heavier tax burden than GE?

middle class has to go.
they are never accountable as they them selfs are the MIDDLE man. (useless)

0011StealTH said:

middle class has to go.
they are never accountable as they them selfs are the MIDDLE man. (useless)

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yes, let's diverge into the wealthy, ruling elite and the peasants.

guess which side you'll be on?

ink the world said:

Cry me a fucking river about having to work 2 jobs, did it for years myself. Do the math, if you work for minimum wage (pretty fucking likely if you live in Texas thanks to Rick Perry) working 2 jobs at 40 hours isnt gonna pay shit. I couldnt even pay my mortgage and property taxes on that shit. Maybe youre young, but it wasnt too long ago if you worked 2 full time minimum wage jobs you could do better than the average American does now. Wages have been stagnant for 98% of our country as record profits have risen and corporate profits are at an all time high.

I just wanna make sure I have this correct, you think that its fair for you as an individual to have a heavier tax burden than GE?

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Maybe you should get a house that you can actually afford. I bet you have a car payment too, dont you? And then you cry that its the evil corporations fault that you cant afford the debt you racked up. suckers

90% of "democrats" don't realize what a conservative is and Bill Mahr is one of those people, they put the stereotypes on them, and group them into one, If bill ever sit down to read something like hayek it might rock his world, I do agree with bill in the entire breadth of this argument that the "Republicans" have screwed us but the republicans are not real conservatives. Bill should also realize one other thing, he is a libertarian, most people who claim they are democrats are actually left leaning libertarians, most people are libertarians.

And he is right again the problem is people following these fake republicans that do not represent the people, for one thing war and anti-gay marriage is not truly conservative stance(just a few very specific examples), Again I agree with everything Bill says in this but I would word it a bit differently and perhaps he chose his words as he did because it was on live television, The "Conservative" Media and The Republicans are the ones "Ruining America" not the conservative people.

Also, the conservative media is just as bad as the liberal media, they both play on peoples emotions. The people that fall for the republicans shit and there are also people who fall for the democrats shit. Its all bullshit.

hazorazo said:

Oh, you have a house, a car, fishing gear, solar panels. So much for the possessionless life.

We liberals make the laws that protect you, the movies and television you watch, the music you listen to. And I doubt your solar technology would be where it is today without the work of LIBERALS. If it were up to conservatives, your home would be run by gasoline and oil, and you would be paying for it, instead of getting solar energy that pays for your property taxes.

So fun to hear you explain your life, and how much you depend on us liberals to make that life work for you.....LOL.

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The problem is HE DOES NOT NEED YOUR HELP! WE DON'T WANT YOUR HELP. We are tired for paying for all your "HELP".

Refer to my chart for american politics, find out where your candidates lay, its at the bottom sucking pfizer, wal-mart, and Jp Morgans dick, while the people sit up top far away from the politicians, the politicians are down on the bottom sitting in between the 2 inch gap that seperates John Mcain from Hillary Clinton.

Take the quiz yourself , google worlds smallest political quiz, bet your a libertarian.

capncash said:

Maybe you should get a house that you can actually afford. I bet you have a car payment too, dont you? And then you cry that its the evil corporations fault that you cant afford the debt you racked up. suckers

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LOL, I NEVER complained about my finances, if it matters I double up on EVERY mortgage payment, the wifes SUV, my car and Harley are ALL PAID off too punk.
You really wanna get into a financial pissing contest? Im game, I earn $125 an hour wiseass, you?
eat a dick

PetFlora said:

Whose to blame... conservatives, liberals, yes and no.

The fact is we (the human race) have long lived in a third dimensional paradigm known as Duality. By its' nature Duality pits one against another. Thankfully, we are moving out of third dimension Duality and into fifth dimension Unity Consciousness. Look for an entirely different world society once that happens- roughly 12/21/2012. The 3 dimensional power structure (dems & cons) is not at all happy about the shift as they are addicted to the "power" they have had over us.

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Are you kidding?

NoDrama said:

LOL Republicans are 100% to blame for the terrible economy? Partisan BS, both parties are equally responsible. You don't destroy the largest economy in the world in 3 years folks, it takes generations!

You could tax every rich person 100% and you still won't even come close to paying the debt! It is unsustainable and impossible to clear!

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Yep. I agree.

NoDrama said:

BTW the quote says nothing about nirvana being about having NO POSSESSIONS, it is a warning to not make your life about things, but relationships and knowledge. I could have very well quoted "Money can't buy me love" instead.

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I prefer...
"The things you own end up owning you."--Tyler Durden Fight Club

ran into a story that exemplifies how the whole 'cut the budget small government' approach to our society is screwing the poor.

court appointed interpreters.

http://news.yahoo.com/feds-states-dispute-over-court-interpreters-160137216.html

a very racially charged issue, i know

who do you think suffers more when the court doesn't get an interpreter?? a rich chinese guy, or the poor woman in the story?? do you think a rich chinese guy wouldn't pay for an interpreter??

but he can afford it!!! < that's what conservatives will say. not being able to afford somebody to translate what's happening in court doesn't provide justice in our view of the law. well, that's how it used to be... conservatives are kinda convinced that we should think, so?? their fault!!

but that's not how our nation worked for the past century. you know, when our nation wasn't just great, it was the best. now this nation is descending into a shithole with a government which finds itself less able to provide services...
.

redivider said:

ran into a story that exemplifies how the whole 'cut the budget small government' approach to our society is screwing the poor.

court appointed interpreters.

http://news.yahoo.com/feds-states-dispute-over-court-interpreters-160137216.html

a very racially charged issue, i know

who do you think suffers more when the court doesn't get an interpreter?? a rich chinese guy, or the poor woman in the story?? do you think a rich chinese guy wouldn't pay for an interpreter??

but he can afford it!!! < that's what conservatives will say. not being able to afford somebody to translate what's happening in court doesn't provide justice in our view of the law. well, that's how it used to be... conservatives are kinda convinced that we should think, so?? their fault!!

but that's not how our nation worked for the past century. you know, when our nation wasn't just great, it was the best. now this nation is descending into a shithole with a government which finds itself less able to provide services...
.

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I don't get how this falls in the political realm what so ever. Small government advocates are for protecting the constitution:

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

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"Aside from all else, &#8216;due process&#8217; means fundamental fairness and substantial justice. Vaughn v. State, 3 Tenn.Crim.App. 54, 456 S.W.2d 879, 883." Black&#8217;s Law Dictionary, 6th Edition, page 500.

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