Is RO water too acidic?

ya i did see that it says removes SOME or PARTIAL. that was my point...not all of them. SOME isnt what we want if we do organics, some or lots will kill them all.

Bacteria grow back quick, even if u kill em all.

realy, each time you water you kill it. so how does it grow back. if using that chloramine water??? as soon as the new microbials get added they would be in chloramine water each time. no chance to come back. and then what about the stuff left in the medium each time. chloramine dosent evaporate off like chlorine does so its always in the medium.

Medi 1 said:

realy, each time you water you kill it. so how does it grow back. if using that chloramine water??? as soon as the new microbials get added they would be in chloramine water each time. no chance to come back. and then what about the stuff left in the medium each time. chloramine dosent evaporate off like chlorine does so its always in the medium.

Click to expand...

There isn't enough chlorine or chloramine in tap water to kill anything.

Well I'm sure it kills some things, that's why it's in there. But there's no evidence that it kills soil benies. And chlorine is neutralized by dirt, so...

oh...so how much does mine have then,,and anyopne elses. we all have diff water so to say that is a would guess.,and do you know how much it takes then to kill them???..doubt it..no offence but notghing to back what you claim

then what do they add it to the water fror???to kill bacteria. what is bacteria/...microbial. good and bad. chloramine dosnnt kill 1 and not the other

heres a read for the non believers....


What’s Wrong With Your
Water?

The first step is to determine what’s in your water and then what type of water purification system would be most
beneficialto your garden.
Free water reports areavailable from your municipality or water
company. However, a single water test will not tell you everything you need to know about your water, since
water quality fluctuates greatly throughout an area and over the seasons.
Some hydroponics shops do water testing, and there are many professional labs that can do an analysis. A key indicator of water quality for plants is total hardness as expressed in ppm of calcium and magnesium, or in grains per gallon (gpg). With too much hardness, the nutrient formula can be thrown out of balance, and deficiencies and lockouts can quickly become a major problem.
Any water source over 50 ppm of hardness should be purified. This translates to 3 gpg and is considered soft water, which, unfortunately, few people have straight from the tap.

Don’t Kill Your Microbiology

Organic gardeners using bio-extractionsolutions or compost teas should use purified water. Anyone gardening with living micro-organisms such as beneficial bacteria, fungi, nematodes, mycorrhizae, and trichoderma must have chlorine-free and contaminant-free water in order for those helpful microbes to survive and flourish.

Unfortunately, it’s a rare grower who with a water source that’s perfect for her prized plants. Letting city water sit out overnight may get rid of some free chlorine, but this technique won’t work to reduce levels of chloramines or other contaminants in the water. Water from well or spring sources is often too high in minerals such as calcium, magnesium, sulfur and iron. This water may be fine to drink, but for hydroponics it may be too heavy with these minerals and may contribute to nutrient lockup.

Following is a table that shows the most common contaminants in water, where they come from, and the harmful effects they can have on plants. After looking it over and realizing how many things in your water can do damage to your crop, you may want to grab yourself—and your plants—a nice glass of pure water!

PPM of TDS
Well/SpringMunicipal/ City Water with high PPM of TDS (total dissolved solids) has unknown contaminants that is the key cause of nutrient lockout and deficiencies in plants.

Chlorine Municipal/ City
Biocide that kills beneficial bacteria, fungi and micro-organisms. Any healthy organic or bi hydro garden is chlorine free. If you are using or brewing compost teas or bio-extract solutions, removing the chlorine is essential.

Chloramines Municipal/ City
Biocide that’s a combination of chlorine and ammonia and is much more stable than chlorine. It will not dissipate by bubbling or even by boiling off. Can only be removed by proper filtration. Toxic to beneficial bacteria, fungi, micro-organisms, fish and amphibians.

Hardness Well/SpringMunicipal/City
Dissolved calcium and magnesium that forms scale on equipment and tubing. Too much of either of these in your water and you are locking out key nutrients to your plants. Your plants will be unable to feed properly and will exhibit deficiencies. Pipes and equipment can eventually get clogged and fail. Mineral hardness is the key cause of water problems in hydroponics and other gardening systems.
Fluoride Municipal/ City
A hazardous waste product that is present in all municipal water. This is a toxic substance to humans and plants. Thirtyfour enzymes in plants are affected by fluoride as is seed germination. Enzyme additives will not do their job properly with fluoride in the water.

Volatile Organic Compounds
Municipal/City
Some VOC’s are known or suspected carcinogens. Trace amounts of these can end up in the plant’s tissue, flowers, and fruits.

Iron / Sulfur Well/Spring Municipal/ City
Water containing iron or sulfur may have a metallic taste and an offensive odor. Nutrient lockout, algae growth, and equipment staining can be results of too much iron on the water.

Pesticides/ Herbicides
Well/SpringMunicipal/City
Local agricultural areas may be leaching harmful contaminants into the ground water. These can end up in your water supply and in your plants.

Bacteria
Well/Spring
Local water sources may be affected by animal and human waste. These toxic substances can be found in trace amounts in fruits and flowers and can be harmful to humans.

Nitrates Well/Spring Municipal/ City
Runoff from agriculture, animal yards, etc. Toxic substances that contribute to over-nitrification and algae growth. Causes “blue baby syndrome”.

pH Well/SpringMunicipal/City
Water that has either too high or low pH will not allow nutrients to be absorbed properly and can be corrosive to equipment. Adjusting pH may be difficult due to fluctuations in levels.



and from a wiki....

Chlorine disinfection

Main article: Chlorination
The most common disinfection method involves some form of chlorine or its compounds such as chloramine or chlorine dioxide. Chlorine is a strong oxidant that rapidly kills many harmful micro-organisms. Because chlorine is a toxic gas, there is a danger of a release associated with its use. This problem is avoided by the use of sodium hypochlorite, which is a relatively inexpensive solution that releases free chlorine when dissolved in water. Chlorine solutions can be generated on site by electrolyzing common salt solutions. A solid form, calcium hypochlorite exists that releases chlorine on contact with water. Handling the solid, however, requires greater routine human contact through opening bags and pouring than the use of gas cylinders or bleach which are more easily automated. The generation of liquid sodium hypochlorite is both inexpensive and safer than the use of gas or solid chlorine. All forms of chlorine are widely used despite their respective drawbacks. One drawback is that chlorine from any source reacts with natural organic compounds in the water to form potentially harmful chemical by-products trihalomethanes (THMs) and haloacetic acids (HAAs), both of which are carcinogenic in large quantities and regulated by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Drinking Water Inspectorate in the UK. The formation of THMs and haloacetic acids may be minimized by effective removal of as many organics from the water as possible prior to chlorine addition. Although chlorine is effective in killing bacteria, it has limited effectiveness against protozoa that form cysts in water (Giardia lamblia and Cryptosporidium, both of which are pathogenic).

Medi 1 said:

heres a read for the non believers....


What’s Wrong With Your
Water?

The first step is to determine what’s in your water and then what type of water purification system would be most
beneficialto your garden.
Free water reports areavailable from your municipality or water
company. However, a single water test will not tell you everything you need to know about your water, since
water quality fluctuates greatly throughout an area and over the seasons.
Some hydroponics shops do water testing, and there are many professional labs that can do an analysis. A key indicator of water quality for plants is total hardness as expressed in ppm of calcium and magnesium, or in grains per gallon (gpg). With too much hardness, the nutrient formula can be thrown out of balance, and deficiencies and lockouts can quickly become a major problem.
Any water source over 50 ppm of hardness should be purified. This translates to 3 gpg and is considered soft water, which, unfortunately, few people have straight from the tap.

Don’t Kill Your Microbiology

Organic gardeners using bio-extractionsolutions or compost teas should use purified water. Anyone gardening with living micro-organisms such as beneficial bacteria, fungi, nematodes, mycorrhizae, and trichoderma must have chlorine-free and contaminant-free water in order for those helpful microbes to survive and flourish.

Unfortunately, it’s a rare grower who with a water source that’s perfect for her prized plants. Letting city water sit out overnight may get rid of some free chlorine, but this technique won’t work to reduce levels of chloramines or other contaminants in the water. Water from well or spring sources is often too high in minerals such as calcium, magnesium, sulfur and iron. This water may be fine to drink, but for hydroponics it may be too heavy with these minerals and may contribute to nutrient lockup.

Following is a table that shows the most common contaminants in water, where they come from, and the harmful effects they can have on plants. After looking it over and realizing how many things in your water can do damage to your crop, you may want to grab yourself—and your plants—a nice glass of pure water!

PPM of TDS
Well/SpringMunicipal/ City Water with high PPM of TDS (total dissolved solids) has unknown contaminants that is the key cause of nutrient lockout and deficiencies in plants.

Chlorine Municipal/ City
Biocide that kills beneficial bacteria, fungi and micro-organisms. Any healthy organic or bi hydro garden is chlorine free. If you are using or brewing compost teas or bio-extract solutions, removing the chlorine is essential.

Chloramines Municipal/ City
Biocide that’s a combination of chlorine and ammonia and is much more stable than chlorine. It will not dissipate by bubbling or even by boiling off. Can only be removed by proper filtration. Toxic to beneficial bacteria, fungi, micro-organisms, fish and amphibians.

Hardness Well/SpringMunicipal/City
Dissolved calcium and magnesium that forms scale on equipment and tubing. Too much of either of these in your water and you are locking out key nutrients to your plants. Your plants will be unable to feed properly and will exhibit deficiencies. Pipes and equipment can eventually get clogged and fail. Mineral hardness is the key cause of water problems in hydroponics and other gardening systems.
Fluoride Municipal/ City
A hazardous waste product that is present in all municipal water. This is a toxic substance to humans and plants. Thirtyfour enzymes in plants are affected by fluoride as is seed germination. Enzyme additives will not do their job properly with fluoride in the water.

Volatile Organic Compounds
Municipal/City
Some VOC’s are known or suspected carcinogens. Trace amounts of these can end up in the plant’s tissue, flowers, and fruits.

Iron / Sulfur Well/Spring Municipal/ City
Water containing iron or sulfur may have a metallic taste and an offensive odor. Nutrient lockout, algae growth, and equipment staining can be results of too much iron on the water.

Pesticides/ Herbicides
Well/SpringMunicipal/City
Local agricultural areas may be leaching harmful contaminants into the ground water. These can end up in your water supply and in your plants.

Bacteria
Well/Spring
Local water sources may be affected by animal and human waste. These toxic substances can be found in trace amounts in fruits and flowers and can be harmful to humans.

Nitrates Well/Spring Municipal/ City
Runoff from agriculture, animal yards, etc. Toxic substances that contribute to over-nitrification and algae growth. Causes “blue baby syndrome”.

pH Well/SpringMunicipal/City
Water that has either too high or low pH will not allow nutrients to be absorbed properly and can be corrosive to equipment. Adjusting pH may be difficult due to fluctuations in levels.



and from a wiki....

Chlorine disinfection

Main article: Chlorination
The most common disinfection method involves some form of chlorine or its compounds such as chloramine or chlorine dioxide. Chlorine is a strong oxidant that rapidly kills many harmful micro-organisms. Because chlorine is a toxic gas, there is a danger of a release associated with its use. This problem is avoided by the use of sodium hypochlorite, which is a relatively inexpensive solution that releases free chlorine when dissolved in water. Chlorine solutions can be generated on site by electrolyzing common salt solutions. A solid form, calcium hypochlorite exists that releases chlorine on contact with water. Handling the solid, however, requires greater routine human contact through opening bags and pouring than the use of gas cylinders or bleach which are more easily automated. The generation of liquid sodium hypochlorite is both inexpensive and safer than the use of gas or solid chlorine. All forms of chlorine are widely used despite their respective drawbacks. One drawback is that chlorine from any source reacts with natural organic compounds in the water to form potentially harmful chemical by-products trihalomethanes (THMs) and haloacetic acids (HAAs), both of which are carcinogenic in large quantities and regulated by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Drinking Water Inspectorate in the UK. The formation of THMs and haloacetic acids may be minimized by effective removal of as many organics from the water as possible prior to chlorine addition. Although chlorine is effective in killing bacteria, it has limited effectiveness against protozoa that form cysts in water (Giardia lamblia and Cryptosporidium, both of which are pathogenic).

Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the good info.....question about the chlromaine.....you say that it kills mirco org. I do a passive hydro with house and garden nutes...Im assuming that the chlromine wont effect my nutes because its not an organic grow correct?? which leads me to my next question.......I also you a Tea concocstion now is that tea be equalized by the Chlromine then?? is there no point in adding tea if im using tap water??

FootClan said:

Hey thanks for the good info.....question about the chlromaine.....you say that it kills mirco org. I do a passive hydro with house and garden nutes...Im assuming that the chlromine wont effect my nutes because its not an organic grow correct?? which leads me to my next question.......I also you a Tea concocstion now is that tea be equalized by the Chlromine then?? is there no point in adding tea if im using tap water??

Click to expand...

Even pure bleach doesn't kill ALL bacteria and other microorganisms. They reproduce at an exponential rate so even if chloramine is killing off a good percentage of the beneficial bacteria, which I highly doubt it is, their numbers should recover rather quickly. Bacteria are hearty little critters!

in hydro there isnt even a medium to hold them in. im sure they could intake some right away but seems a waste to use something that dosent do as its intended to. and ya your tea isnt getting the full bennefit either.


doc im sure some do make it, but this is more to show some why they see no bennefits to the foods they use and say its voo doo juice and is shit. and we cant realy compare every cleaning agent to this, not all are equal. apples dont taste like oranges but both are a fruit. so i dont see bleach and chlorine and chloramine the same either. and if some do survivie why would i pay top dollar for a nute that has this in it to be killing even hakf of it off.

I am a newbie here and just wanna say Hi to everyone. I am Daniel from Pennsylvania, US.


__________________
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Medi 1 said:

in hydro there isnt even a medium to hold them in. im sure they could intake some right away but seems a waste to use something that dosent do as its intended to. and ya your tea isnt getting the full bennefit either.


doc im sure some do make it, but this is more to show some why they see no bennefits to the foods they use and say its voo doo juice and is shit. and we cant realy compare every cleaning agent to this, not all are equal. apples dont taste like oranges but both are a fruit. so i dont see bleach and chlorine and chloramine the same either. and if some do survivie why would i pay top dollar for a nute that has this in it to be killing even hakf of it off.

Click to expand...

You are correct, these chemicals are not the same but they are similar, in fact undilluted bleach solution would probably be much stronger than the weak concentrations of Cl and Chloramine present in most tapwater. My point is the science just isn't there. There are ZERO reliable studies that tell us what percentage of beneficial bacteria are killed off. I can't say one way or another, but it stands to reason that most of the beneficials would survive the relatively weak concentrations of Cl or Chlroamines. Small amounts of Cl are necessary for nearly all known forms of life. There are many people who grow soil and hydro and use chloramine treated tapwater with no apparent ill effect. Their plants grow just fine and no discernable difference noted when switching up their water to r/o or DI. Part of the problem is the number of variables. It takes large sample sets to get more accurate data and most of us closet growers just don't have the space to do a scientific, properly done experiment. It would be interesting to see an accredited scientific body do an experiment to see once and for all what damage actually occurs when using Cl/Chlroamine treated tapwater.

well i may just be able to help with that science, we work with a soil biologist for our own brand of organic soils, so next time hes in town ill drill him more in detail on this. ive gotten into this in the past witgh him but most went right over my head. next time ill take notes....lol
and we can still grow nice plants without the microbials to.

Medi 1 said:

in hydro there isnt even a medium to hold them in. im sure they could intake some right away but seems a waste to use something that dosent do as its intended to. and ya your tea isnt getting the full bennefit either.


doc im sure some do make it, but this is more to show some why they see no bennefits to the foods they use and say its voo doo juice and is shit. and we cant realy compare every cleaning agent to this, not all are equal. apples dont taste like oranges but both are a fruit. so i dont see bleach and chlorine and chloramine the same either. and if some do survivie why would i pay top dollar for a nute that has this in it to be killing even hakf of it off.

Click to expand...

Its a Passive hydro i use 60/40 sunshine mix and course perulite....i only water once every 3 days the tea has plenty of time to get soaked into the roots my question is will the chlromanine kill the tea??

Dosent really mater anyways i checked the local water sources web site for the list of things in the water and my city isnt even using chlromaine yet.

we dont know if they get that tea...does it take 10 min to kill or days????

so then if your still using chlorine just let it sit out 24 houir and its basicaly evaporated off

Medi 1 said:

we dont know if they get that tea...does it take 10 min to kill or days????

so then if your still using chlorine just let it sit out 24 houir and its basicaly evaporated off

Click to expand...

Ya thats what my dad said he workds for a local water company hes the one who directed me to the website.. It gave a list of EVERYTHING even lists of bacteria that they had showed positive for in small amounts....Its showed what was in the water and what the PPM of everyting...Chlroine was tested throught the day everyday and the highest level they tested was 1.54ppm and the lowest was .75 ppm and that was in a years span of time....They had all the records for the last 10 years listed for the public its pretty cool actually....

cool. all cities have that info online...well mostm, ive been trying to get mine here fro a while and the dam sites been down. mine is great for the most part from the tap but im usre we sue chloramines here. mine is 7.04 and 0 - 20 ppm from the tap. now through the sytem i use im at 0 ppm and 6.5 pH. i just use a filter set up as i dont need the R/O and ive upgraded to the right filter for all the chloramines. my pH went way up when it was new, like to 9.4 but i called them and was told with the upgrade filter i needed to run off more water to clear it compared to the factory filter it came with. so it did work after about double the asked for amount in the manual. now id like to test it to see what is left if anything in the water.

Medi 1 said:

cool. all cities have that info online...well mostm, ive been trying to get mine here fro a while and the dam sites been down. mine is great for the most part from the tap but im usre we sue chloramines here. mine is 7.04 and 0 - 20 ppm from the tap. now through the sytem i use im at 0 ppm and 6.5 pH. i just use a filter set up as i dont need the R/O and ive upgraded to the right filter for all the chloramines. my pH went way up when it was new, like to 9.4 but i called them and was told with the upgrade filter i needed to run off more water to clear it compared to the factory filter it came with. so it did work after about double the asked for amount in the manual. now id like to test it to see what is left if anything in the water.

Click to expand...

My dad said i didnt need a R/o to filter out the Chlromanine/chlroine and that a carbon filter would do the job....He also suggested getting one that was in tandam with a sediment filter aswell............I saw the "small boy" de-chlorinator & sediment filter online $106.00 and im thinking of buying it......anyone ever use them?? my dad said its not as good as R/O but if all i want to do it filter out chlorine and Mag and cal. that this filter would work just great and cost alot less.......

thats the toy i use here..small boy with the upgraded KDF 85 carbon filter. im not sure the diff on this to the factory one, but according to them and the charts i have from work it shows the factory only removes some or partial. and this does all..so they claim. maybe its just more packed carbon or a diff pourosity carbon. i need to call again and ask them this. like i said it did take a shit ton more water through it to get the numbers back down to good so its deffianlty diff than the factory one.

and comapared to other costs i see for that filter thats a good one. id grab it

couple of shots of my set up, ive added the float shut off valve and do recomend it as ive overflowed it a couple times already...stoner moments, for i think 20 buck i got that shut off.

and sorry for the thread jack here.....

holly shit, why does this site have issues with attaching images using the insert image button. what a mess...sorry guys