Is it possible to create purely fem IBLs?

Discussion in 'Breeders Paradise' started by redfrogs, Jan 8, 2013.

  1.  
    redfrogs

    redfrogs Member

    Hi all, I m toying with the idea of making IBL seed stock purely from fems. I have a fair few females from regs and would like to experiment with CS. I m also doing some hobby breeding atm so i've got the plant numbers to play with. I have read that a male x fem and a fem x fem cross do about the same thing, just that fem x fem =fem only. I have read many different viewpoints on this subject like: fem x fem=hermie, fem x fem=bad for genepool etc...i m just not sure what to make of it. I will also be doing the male x fem cross of the same strain as backups.

    For example, if i crossed a NL fem x a Bubblegum fem then worked to F5 or later. Would this line be stable if the P1/F1 gen are hermie free? I would love to lock down some stable nice genetics that were always fem for when the time comes and i ll have to go back to micro grows and small plant numbers.

    Hence:
    -P1 NL fem x P1 BG fem= f1 NLBG fem
    -f1 NLBG x f1 NLBG(different plants, not trying for s1s)= f2 NLBG
    -f2 NLBG x f2 NLBG(different plants)=f3 NLBG

    Anyone that can shed some light, would be much appreciated!
  2.  
    eastcoastmo

    eastcoastmo Well-Known Member

    I think you would be better off backcrossing to the original parents if you want to stabilise the strain...but i could be totally wrong..
  3.  
    redfrogs

    redfrogs Member

    Not sure about bxing man. The IBLs i plan to make are either already an IBL/landrace reg line or true F1s reg lines made with IBLs/landraces...so traits should be quite dominant without bxing.

    Well, it looks like no one knows...I'll just do it and see... :fire:
  4.  
    EvlMunkee

    EvlMunkee Well-Known Member

    Interesting question. I think eastcoastmo has a point. The fastest way to stabilize would be to bx, but you would have to choose one of the parents to bx, so the subsequent generations would more closely resemble that parent. If you are looking for a progeny that is more of a 50/50 mix of the 2 parents, you would need to create a first generation, select breeding stock from them and then backcross repeatedly to your favorite. bongsmilie
  5.  
    eastcoastmo

    eastcoastmo Well-Known Member

    Could you take the best F2 and back cross it to the mother, find the best again and back cross it to the father? Dunno just talkin out my ass here :lol:

    I do see how you are potentially stabilising the strain by inbreeding down to F5 as you'd be choosing the best male and female from each progeny, unless you're using 1000+ males and females each time though to find the traits, you could just end up with a stable line of traits you dont want...ive always said you cant polish a turd and in that case you'd be very much hoping the traits you want come out in just a few seeds you pop...just my 2c mate, i'm no expert at all :)
  6.  
    redfrogs

    redfrogs Member

    Thanks for the replies...I cant find anything on this even on ganjadigger.

    Well it looks like I will try out the BX. But I do feel that it should only be done if the F2 seed stock are not up par with the P gen. I will try it out and see what happens keeping the BX option in mind.
  7.  
    polyarcturus

    polyarcturus Well-Known Member

    oh well nobody really knew your answer.

    well the answer is yes, but its not the ideal way to go about it since all of your genetics may possible inherently be carrying gentic lack of resistance to hermpmaphidism that can express itself dominantly in later generations.
  8.  
    Trousers

    Trousers Well-Known Member

    Fem seeds are as likely to "herm" as their parents.

    I have no experience with multiple generations of fem seeds in breeding.
    I will say that no one can tell the difference between a feminized female and a regular female. I doubt you could tell the difference with some sort of dna test.
    I am not convinced that they are different genetically.


    We have been through this.
    You and every person I have encountered that uses this term can not explain it to me.

    Can anyone tell me what the hermie trait is?
    To me it sounds like something someone read and repeats without really thinking about it.
    Have you bred fems in multiple generations?
  9.  
    racerboy71

    racerboy71 bud bootlegger

    poly, i'm shocked with you on this one.. fem's don't have a hermie trait if they're not made using a hermie plant to begin with.. if you have a stable female plant, and use a chemnical like collodial sliver to FORCE it to grow male flowers, there is no hermie trait in that plant.. the only reason it grew male flowers was the introduction of the cs.. if you take away the cs, the plant wouldn't hermie on it's own...
    that would be like saying if you cut off your arm and you have kids, your kids are going to have a one armed trait in them when we all know you only have one arm because you got drunk one night after getting in a fight with your babies momma and took a chainsaw to your arm.. so long as your kids don't get drunk and take a chainsaw to their arms, they will all have two arms... same deal as using a chemical to force a plant to grow male staminete flowers..
  10.  
    polyarcturus

    polyarcturus Well-Known Member

    yes correct im always thinking in terms of natural occurrence, no chemical forced hermis to lessen chances of generation of male seeds. but then again Cs is a pretty fool proof way to do so. of course selective breeding chemical intervention would of course lower chances of undesired results too sooo. with that said i agree hermie problems can be avoided.

    so i suppose i will take this into account. breeding multiple generations of fems is entirely possible, i am still correct there at least. but this hermie shit makes my head hurt sometimes, because all female cannabis is essentially a hermie this makes me want to think about how this plays into cannabis genetics and especially during an F3 generation of an otherwise stable cross from stable parents.
  11.  
    polyarcturus

    polyarcturus Well-Known Member

    as usual my shitty choice of words leads to some bullshit....
    there is fixed it to say what i meant.
  12.  
    Trousers

    Trousers Well-Known Member



    All female cannabis is potentially an dioecious XX hermaphrodite.
    Nice, thanks for making me think of it that way.

    Again, I have no idea what will happen down multiple generations with fem seeds.
    For all we know, some respected breeders have been doing it for years and selling the results.

    I would love for someone to try and share the results.
  13.  
    polyarcturus

    polyarcturus Well-Known Member

    i attempted but gave in shortly due to the ease of working with males over herms. i have a few fem progeny i could attempt this with.
  14.  
    redfrogs

    redfrogs Member

    I shall try this out and one day report what happened. I'm 3 weeks into flower and on the look out for potential P1s...

    Did a bit more research and it seems that when a fem line is heavily inbred(or selfed upon selfed, S2s and beyond) and even if then bxed or outcrossed to fem plants(clone only e.g. pre-98 bubba) to make more fem seeds(with the possibility of this offspring being inbreed as well). After some F generations you should start to see males reappearing from a worked fem line in a low numbers(5%???); it has do to with recessive combination or something to that degree. Also, two S1(i.e. S1(P1/F1) x [S1(P1/F1) x northern lights]) lines produce only males.

    So from that deduction; I suppose that one could work to stablise a fem only line as well as maybe recreating a reg line from a possibility clone only variety.

    Thanks all...:weed:
  15.  
    eastcoastmo

    eastcoastmo Well-Known Member

    Hmm interesting :) i guess when it comes to chromosomes if a plant has both but with one more dominant, the other will eventually rear its head....good luck dude, cant wait to see your results :)

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