Is a CFL cabinet @ 525w (actual) 30,000 lumen in a 18"x22" cabinet too many lumen?

Added co2 allows for higher tolerable temps for the plants, just one quick example: https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/378946-high-temps-necessary-co2-enrichment.html. I will have the same amount of fresh air (like I said before, 8ft cubed cab with a 4" 80 cfm inline fan, venting fresh air via 4" passive intake that can be timed on a separate timer if needed (when/if juicing co2) and an internal 120mm fan for circulation. My first choice will be to get the lights correctly placed (half way done with the new horizontal light rig and should help with cooling)... We shall see in a few hrs...
Stains keep changing at my dispensary. I am looking at a possible OG kush, Pre-98 bubba Kush, Purple Erkle, Mendocino Purps, or maybe LA Confidential.... Just luck of the day I go in I guess... What I really want is some CinX....

I did read somewhere blaze that plants would tolerate temps in the 90's with the addition of CO2. I will say that my temps are better now but I went from 100 degrees down to 50 degrees on more than a few occasions and was surprized that the plants really did not seem to give a crap but I understand that potency is where the loss comes in. Two buzzing PC outtake fans, one PC intake fan, one PC fan just moving air, a Small ceramic heater, and I'm sorta holding steady. (arg)

I just wish to hell I could go to a dispensory and pick up some clones or what have you. No clones here just male order seeds. Just curious blaze how much does a well rooted clone cost? The strain of the day shit sounds way cool. Were still in the freakin stone age here in MA. I thought we were a little bit more progressive. RI, VT, and I think even ME lets you grow and buy. WTF!!!

Rottedroots said:

I did read somewhere blaze that plants would tolerate temps in the 90's with the addition of CO2. I will say that my temps are better now but I went from 100 degrees down to 50 degrees on more than a few occasions and was surprized that the plants really did not seem to give a crap but I understand that potency is where the loss comes in. Two buzzing PC outtake fans, one PC intake fan, one PC fan just moving air, a Small ceramic heater, and I'm sorta holding steady. (arg)

I just wish to hell I could go to a dispensory and pick up some clones or what have you. No clones here just male order seeds. Just curious blaze how much does a well rooted clone cost? The strain of the day shit sounds way cool. Were still in the freakin stone age here in MA. I thought we were a little bit more progressive. RI, VT, and I think even ME lets you grow and buy. WTF!!!

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I re-worked the lights. I was only able to fit 4 into the footprint side by side. So pushing 420 watts @ a little under 28,000lm It has been on for 15 min and seems to hold 81 degrees at about 3" from the lights without a circulating fan, just the passive intake and 80 cfm outtake fan. Once I make a hood/vent director I should be golden. On my old grow when temps went over 90 for a couple of days the growth was severely stunted slowing growth to nothing for about 2 weeks after... 80 was no problem.
Well rooted clones are a 10 dollar "suggested" donation at my "club". The clones are rooted for at least 2 weeks and very healthy around 4-5 nodes high and some already have branching! =) Cant beat that!! West Coast FTW!

What needs tobe said here is that
Lumens DON'T add up.
You cannot get 5000 lumens from even 100x 13w CFL bulbs.
It doesn't work that way.


Almost all Lumen measurements are taken @ ABOUT 6.5" from the bulb.
And due to theInverse Square Law, light diminishes 4x inintensity @ 2x the distance.
So a 40w CFL with 2700 Lumens,
will produce about 2700 @6.5"
625 @ 13"
150 @ 26"
& "supposedly" 10000 lumens @ 3".

Yeah, that hasn't been mentioned on this page yet...

for all the HPS or MH people, this is not a thread to debate what your own personal thoughts on lumen are. IMO 6900+6900+6900+6900=27600 lumen. The specs of the bulbs changed from my title post. Being a photographer, understanding light and how it acts is part of the gig... Yes the inverse square law takes place here, just as it does with ANY OTHER LIGHT. If you looked into the cab walls you would see a difference between one bulb and 4. Trust when I say it is def 4 times as bright. If you look at an individual bulb shining at the wall, with 4 bulbs shining on it you see that it IS much brighter... I literally need sunglasses when playing with the config or I get sun spots on my eyes and cant see what im doing outside the cab in a normally lit room...
HPS or MH is not a magic light that manages to "penatrate deeper" at the same Lumen (note I did not say Watts it will take more watts for cfl to match HPS in lumen). Lumen are lumen are lumen no matter how you look at it. 27600 lumen in CFL is 27600 lumen in HPS. The major difference is the wattage, heat, wiring, and angle of view given. (ie stock cfl have no reflector). Which is why you need reflectors with cfl unless you are trying to spread out the light 360 among many stalks.
Some reading for you who don't believe the cumulative nature of light and how the beam pattern effects dispersion: http://www.luminousdiy.com/FAQ.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=kxICp6t-CDAC&pg=PA769&lpg=PA769&dq=Are+lumens+cumulative?&source=bl&ots=yVfsYmYgLm&sig=VGI2nkLfr2cvVPC5tbR30rva5_E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Gi8dT8a-NrH8iQKaz9XOCA&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Are lumens cumulative?&f=false

I run CFLs.

thats wat im sayin blaze. if ur cab is brighter then if u had 2 less cfls, then lumens are adding up. they may not add up due 2 the laws of light but the intensity of the light definitely is adds up. whos to say the plant cant recognize or add up lumens. im sure a plant grown under 1 cfl will grow slower then 1 with 2 cfls and so on. and i can guarantee you will pull more then an oz. all the people who claim lumens dont work that way will sit back wondering how u got 2 zips with only 5000 lumens while there pulling the same numbers with alot more lumens. get my point , lumens are definitely adding up, cuz u cant harvest shit with only 5000 lumen.

No, lumens don't stack. Silly Billies! HID bulbs offer INTENSITY, nothing else. I have used CFL's to grow. The confusion is beam direction. 2 CFL's will work better because 2 sides of the plant are receiving light instead of one. Using more bulbs covers more area, but does not increase intensity. Why do you think premium headlights for automobiles are one bulb of a different design, instead of 3 standard bulbs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminance

Furthermore, relying on appearance is asinine! The human eye sees a bit of what the plant sees. Plant available radiation is where it's at. I've measured both types of bulbs. CFL's are actually a bit superior on the spectrum angle, but fail with intensity. That's why CFL buds are light compared to HID buds.

Having said that, CFL's and T5's CAN produce a bountiful harvest. The key is keeping the bulbs very close without burning them. Ventilation, water, and nutrients MUST be on point, as the light WILL be the limiting factor in this grow. I built a cabinet for a friend once. I used 9X55 watt CFL's mounted to wardrobe fixtures (Those bars above mirrors that hold 3 bulbs), One on each wall. This allowed the plant to be surrounded by light, and received it at the bottom as well as the top. This is key with ANY light set up, but especially with CFL placement. At 500 watts, it is more efficient than a 600MH, and disperses the same intensity, just not as far, but is irrelevant, because the plants are surrounded by light.
ANY ONE WHO TELLS YOU CFL BULBS AND HID LAMPS OPERATE OR BEHAVE THE SAME IS SMOKING MORE THAN CANNABIS!!!

Lumens aren't the deciding factor in plant growth, they are simply a measure of brightness and brightness does not equate to growing power.

PAR is what you need to measure when it comes to plant growth.

http://www.lumigrow.com/demystifying-lumens-lux-par/

Adding CLFs will give you a brighter grow space, which means the usable PAR is being spread more efficiently with better penetration. Lumens are great when you're calculating office lighting and taking pictures, but that's not what makes plants grow.

electronug said:

Lumens aren't the deciding factor in plant growth, they are simply a measure of brightness and brightness does not equate to growing power.

PAR is what you need to measure when it comes to plant growth.

http://www.lumigrow.com/demystifying-lumens-lux-par/

Adding CLFs will give you a brighter grow space, which means the usable PAR is being spread more efficiently with better penetration. Lumens are great when you're calculating office lighting and taking pictures, but that's not what makes plants grow.

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I use candles! Explain that! Just kidding.

afrawfraw said:

No, lumens don't stack. Silly Billies! HID bulbs offer INTENSITY, nothing else. I have used CFL's to grow. The confusion is beam direction. 2 CFL's will work better because 2 sides of the plant are receiving light instead of one. Using more bulbs covers more area, but does not increase intensity. Why do you think premium headlights for automobiles are one bulb of a different design, instead of 3 standard bulbs?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IlluminanceFurthermore, relying on appearance is asinine! The human eye sees a bit of what the plant sees. Plant available radiation is where it's at. I've measured both types of bulbs. CFL's are actually a bit superior on the spectrum angle, but fail with intensity. That's why CFL buds are light compared to HID buds. Having said that, CFL's and T5's CAN produce a bountiful harvest. The key is keeping the bulbs very close without burning them. Ventilation, water, and nutrients MUST be on point, as the light WILL be the limiting factor in this grow. I built a cabinet for a friend once. I used 9X55 watt CFL's mounted to wardrobe fixtures (Those bars above mirrors that hold 3 bulbs), One on each wall. This allowed the plant to be surrounded by light, and received it at the bottom as well as the top. This is key with ANY light set up, but especially with CFL placement. At 500 watts, it is more efficient than a 600MH, and disperses the same intensity, just not as far, but is irrelevant, because the plants are surrounded by light.ANY ONE WHO TELLS YOU CFL BULBS AND HID LAMPS OPERATE OR BEHAVE THE SAME IS SMOKING MORE THAN CANNABIS!!!

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whos to say the plant dont stack up the lumens? if you say that lumens dont stack up neither does intensity why would you build your buddy a cab with 9 55w pushing wat 3-4000 lumens because according to everyone all 500w watts only gave you 3-4000 lumens. makes no sense. lumens/ intensity is getting combined somewhere weather its in the cab or in the plant.

glockdoc said:

whos to say the plant dont stack up the lumens?

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You put 9 bulbs in to create an even distribution of light.

yea i know all that brotha man. do u get wat im saying thou. why distribute anything if it wont add up. distribute 9 bulbs @ 3000 lumens only to get 3000 lumens? thats like sayin u only use 1 bulb at 3000 lumens will yield the same as a plant with 9 of the same bulbs not spread out. the one with 9 will yield alot more the the plant with 1. how coulthat be if lumens dont add up.

Jesus christ.

9 bulbs allows those 3000 lumen to be spread evenly and reach further (penetration) than a single bulb would.

HID's are supplying a large number of lumen from one source, CFLs are spreading lumen from numerous sources.

It's pretty straight-forward and I'm sorry if you can't wrap your head around it.

glockdoc said:

whos to say the plant dont stack up the lumens? if you say that lumens dont stack up neither does intensity why would you build your buddy a cab with 9 55w pushing wat 3-4000 lumens because according to everyone all 500w watts only gave you 3-4000 lumens. makes no sense. lumens/ intensity is getting combined somewhere weather its in the cab or in the plant.

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Who says!? Physics and Botanists everywhere. And why use several points of light? To evenly distribute those 5,000 lumens around the plant instead of JUST at the top. AGAIN, lumens don't stack. Even if you want them to. And whoever told you a 500 watt HPS or MH only throws 3 to 4K lumens lied to you! I think your confused. A 600 watt throws 5000 lumens AT 2 FEET! It's more like 60,000 at the bulb. I record 9000 lumens at a foot away. So your "Super lights" are only casting around 1000 lumens at 12 inches away, while mine are throwing 9,000 at the same distance. Sorry, that's how our universe works.

Maybe this will help...

electronug said:

Jesus christ.

9 bulbs allows those 3000 lumen to be spread evenly and reach further (penetration) than a single bulb would.

HID's are supplying a large number of lumen from one source, CFLs are spreading lumen from numerous sources.

It's pretty straight-forward and I'm sorry if you can't wrap your head around it.

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People are used to summing up amperage for circuits. Me thinx this is why people do this. Light is energy. Electricity is energy. Light is not electricity. Electricity is not light. Oh my Newton!!! Where's bill nye?

electronug said:

Adding CLFs will give you a brighter grow space, which means the usable PAR is being spread more efficiently with better penetration. Lumens are great when you're calculating office lighting and taking pictures, but that's not what makes plants grow.

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Simple fact ... why don't you see massive CFL grows? Because HID lighting produces more grams of herb per watt used and CFL lighting.

People can attempt to validate the reasons for whatever lighting they choice and justify their pick until the cows come home. But facts are facts ... HID lighting, on a gram produced per watt used, is far more efficient than CFLs.

Don't get me wrong, they rock for veg. But preferred lighting for flower? Nay.