Iraq

Now here's a subject that everyone has an opinion on. I say Cut and Run! I support every one of our troops and want them to come home safely. The only reason we're still there is that no politician wants to admit they made a mistake and we should leave. George Bushes humongus ego won't allow him to admit a mistake and the spineless politicians (none of which ever carried a weapon to war)( I have and luckily never had to use it, they had the draft when I was a youngster) won't oppose him. This is pure insanity. The place is in Civil war and is creating way more terrorists than we are killing. If you think we are doing Gods work in Iraq, your flipped! I say, pack up today, not tomorrow, and hit the road to kuwait. Let the Sunnis and Shiites kill themselves off and rid the world of stupid people. If people are stupid enough to kill each other over Religion, I say let them. As far as the oil, who are they going to sell it to, the oil companys, so what's the difference. We could blockade the port ( the only one they have) and monitor the oil supply to our oil company's advantage. (isn't that what the whole thing's about anyway?) To continue to spend treasure and blood in Iraq (because of Bush's Ego) is the purest form of insanity a country can exude. Just one voters opinion, what's yours? I realise that this thread in no way encompasses the totality of corporate greed and power in Iraq, (Haliburton etc.), it's just a plea for sanity!

Hmmm ... would the free world be better off with a democratized Middle East, or Middle Eastern countries all run by Mafia types with nuclear weapons? Which would make for a safer world?

Do your really feel OK about millions being slaughtered in the Middle East? Were you one of those in favor of our pulling out of Viet Nam? What was the aftermath of that little excursion, fomented by the Democrats, by the way?

Vi

Are you joking, those dirt eaters in Iraq have no clue what democracy is and don,t care either. Why can't we (U.S.A) leave other countries alone and let them sort out their own problems. You better believe that I was against the war in Viet Nam, My brother was a prisoner of war there, I was a vietnam era soldier, I luckily, saw no combat, but could have, Tell me about your great contribution to the safety of this country! And about Millions killed in Viet Nam, We killed a thousand times the amount killed by the vietnamese. Yes they killed the collaboraters, maybe a couple thousand, how many did we needlessly kill to see the same result as if we were never there, plus 56 thousand American lives. I don't know where you get your information, maybe from Fox news. That is the best right wing tabloid going, certainly not a news organization. As far as the nuclear (not nucular) weapons, I'm sure our intelligence apparatus will fully inform our leaders of their location and vulnerability. Untill we are sure that a foriegn power has the capability to deliver a nuclear weapon to our shores, we should leave the fuck alone and use sanctions or (heaven forbid) diplomacy to usurp those intentions. I feel the Bushies mounting the Iran war as we speak. A conventional war with Iran would decimate our military and for sure necessitate a draft, this not being feasible as to timing would lead to nuclear destruction of Iran and possibly the rest of the world, armageddon as the Bushies like to call it. Bush sees this as his calling, to be the president at Armageddon. I hope you are not ignorant enough to not see this. This asshole (BUSH) thinks he is doing Gods work. He is one scary asshole. Maybe he believes the Mayan calender that ends in 2012 and wants to get a Jump on it!

No troops needed in the firstplace, we have smart bombs and nukes.

medicinaluseonly said:

Untill we are sure that a foriegn power has the capability to deliver a nuclear weapon to our shores, we should leave the fuck alone and use sanctions or (heaven forbid) diplomacy to usurp those intentions.

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An altruistic political stance, that allows diplomatic antagonizing rule over rational military strategy is obsurd when it involves an enemy country building a nuke. Having a nuke is not a global right, it's a respected and envied curse.

Other than that I totally agree with you.

Lets see......... I see the world in a VERY large battle (world war-Russia, China, Arabs, Germany, US, Canada..all the gang) by the end of the year.

I will bet a joint on it............lol. and I am high right now also.........

Its hard to say. Its a lot easier to say we should not have gone but now that we are there what do you do now? I think thats the only reason Bush got re-elected. Basically to finish what he started and putting someone new in would only make things worse. I dont know if we should stay or go. I would think they would have their government (that we made) setup already. But I would of thought they would have given Sadam a fair trial by now also. Are they just going to keep him a prisoner forever?

It pretty much boils down to this: are you a people person or a property person. People persons adore peace and tranquility while property persons adore property, and always want someone elses. This leads to war and agression. I'm not quite a turn the other cheek person, but I believe the person is more valuable than the property unless he's trying to take mine, then I'll just shoot the bastard!

You didn't say Cambodia! That was an entirely different inspired set of criminal circumstances. Get your facts straight, Pol Pot had nothing to do with the Viet Nam war. I agree that he was a monster, and we (U.S.A.) did absolutely nothing to stop him. Yes He killed millions, and maybe if we hadn't waged war on Viet Nam He wouldn't have, did you ever think of that? War doesn't solve hatred, it only broadens it. If someone kills your brother. aren't you going to be thinking about revenge. Just like Viet Nam, we have stirred up a hornets nest in Iraq, sunni kills shiite then shiite kill sunnis brother and on ad-finitum. The only sane answer is to leave as quickly as we can and let them sort it out. Making a Democracy in the middle east? Talk about smokin some wierd shit! Even on my worst acid trip I couldn't have come up with that!

So, if we just left the folks who want to kill us alone, the terrorism here in the U.S. would stop? Your ideas please.

Vi

Hey my senior member, I don't have all the answers. I'll just say this: The whole fault of creating terrorists lies with the American foriegn policy. No Bush didn't start bad American foriegn policy, it's been in effect since the greed of capatilism expanded to foriegn shores. The thing about the Bush admin. is the pure arrogance they exude when dealing with foriegn govts. As far as homeland terrorists, how could you have stopped Timothy McVeigh. I think we need to be vigilant at home and get the hell out of other countries affairs, present a better face to the world, and try and work with the governments of the middle east to bring a lasting peace to the region. We have to address the Palastinian situation first. We must give palastine a secure homeland, one that would be equitable with the Jews ( they would have to give something up), otherwise the countries of the middle east will never consider peace with isreal or the U.S. Then we will have a chance to send in Nuclear inspectors to Iran to secure the advance of weapon grade plutonium. We must secure the nukes in Russia and surrounding countries. We must secure our ports and chemical and nuclear facilities. We must control our borders, there is a long to-do list before we are safe, I'm just saying the Bush regeme has been lying to us from the gates, they have been pushing their agenda for the rich and fuck the rest of us. Do you remember when Bush was at a gazillionaire dinner, 100,000 per plate and he stood up and said: " now this is really my base", he wasn't kidding. I'm sorry if that offends you, but being working class all my life, it really offends me, so maybe we are too different to ever see eye to eye. I've worked physically hard all my life since age 8 (lived on a farm untill age 14) then left home and worked in a gas station (lied about my age),Army at 19 and on and on. I'm now retired and would like a few peaceful years to enjoy my grandkids and hope they never have to go to an Iraq or Iran and die. I can't understand why your not pissed off about the loss of American lives. This was a war of choice, and Bush chose it! peace!

Have to go. A nice lady is awaiting my arrival to take her to a fine Chinese dinner. Back atcha tomorrow.

Vi

Hope you had a nice dinner! peace.

The only reason we are still there is to protect the pipelines that the insurgents keep trying to blow up. All this under the guise of getting Iraq back on it's feet. Don't make me laugh. We destroyed that great country. Iraq wasn't poor and the people certainly weren't dirt eaters. Don't confuse what we did to the Iraqi people with terrorism and Osamah Bin-Laden.

Iraq was a beautiful country before we got there. Like our two countries it had made a couple of mistakes along the way, not without our knowledge I might add, but it had blossomed into a beautiful, forward-thinking country.

Saddam had softened in old age, ruthless yes, but this is the bane of all dictators. We should have allowed him to conquer the East, this was his mission. We went along with him at first as our mission was merely to get access to all that oil. Once we had it we sucker-punched him and told him to stay away from kuwait as we had interests there. No need to mention those interests. We all know what they are. Saddam was, and still could be, our greatest ally in the East.

There you go, stealing my ideas again, with a couple of small exceptions, I agree with you whole heartedly, but you must admit the Bushies don't want to admit defeat. Like I've said, we could blockaid their port and force them to sell the oil to our oil guys. We don't need an army there to control the oil. If they try and offload the oil somewhere else, we just bomb the site and wait. Eventually they'll see the light and pump the oil our way. I know this sounds ridiculous, But in the interest of the American consumer, the oil companies could even mandate the price of oil to say, $25.00 a barrel. This would force the price of oil down all around the region, Like I said ridiculous, the greedy oil companys would never go for this, unless they could buy for $25.00 and force it on us for $65.00, Just think at 2 million barrels a day, thats 80 million dollars profit a day, buy oil stock! It wouldn't take long to get rich at that profit margin. And in case you forgot, the only oil Sadam was allowed to sell after gulf 1 was oil for food. We realize that he cheated and sold oil on the black market, but the full pontential of those oil fields never reached our ports. Some went to China, Packistan, Turkey etc. but not to the U.S., only a controlled amount.

medicinaluseonly said:

Hey my senior member, I don't have all the answers. I'll just say this: The whole fault of creating terrorists lies with the American foriegn policy.

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I see. Here's a list of known terrorist organizations and their stated goals. Most do not list American foriegn policy as their reason for existence.

Terrorism - Terrorist Organizations


Vi

What the hell are you, a neo-con, a CIA spy, The head of NSA, A board member of Halliburton? All leaders of jihadest states express this as the prime reason they Hate America, You might be intelligent, but you're sure as hell not smart! American foriegn policy has fucked the world since the Capitalists took over. IE. if you can't make any money on it then fuck it or fuck them. Don't even try and justify American policy. You're either as I've said said, A corporate criminal or a Govt. spy. No-one can sit back and look at American foriegn policy with an open eye without seeing the ravages we have placed on the third world, for what, so some capitilists could rape and plunder their resources, Install a puppet govt., make a few people rich, and create a dictatorship. The only problems come when the dictator turns on the U.S. and tells them to fuck off. Rich capitilists see their money dwindling and we send in troops> so go fuck your self. I can't continue a dialogue with someone as Ignorant or one way as you. Who said Capitilism is the chosen way, Certainly wasn't Jesus!! I worked hard for my Money, and never knowingly fucked another man out of a nickle. You Capitilists have your dicks so far up the worlds ass it's pathetic. Don't even try with the who gave me a job crap, every job I had, including a couple of small businesses, I gave them more than I got. Every employer made money on me and in my businesses, I gave value for money. It's the evil capitilists that give America a bad name, and Americas foriegn policy sucks!

Well, at least you have the ability to stay calm over it. *lol*

So, I'd be interested in exploring your idea of what a perfect economic system would be. If you were King of the realm, how would your country look?

Vi

Stay tuned!

I can hardly wait!