homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Hydroponic growing is delivering the same mineral salts to your roots as soil, but in a much more efficient way. I'd love to see a link to where you read that statement.
increased yield but reduced potency
- Thread starter ecofrog
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randomseed
Active Member
You can start with damn near every book related to growing ever written. Throw in the obvious fact that hydro food is extremely bland compared to its organic counterparts. Its pretty common knowledge that hydro delivers the obvious life sustaining materials to the plants but to think thats everything that matters is very short sighted. There are entire ranges of compounds that the plant can and will absorb that alter many characteristics other then how much flower the plant will produce.
In many regards the creation of terpenoids in cannabis is still largely not understood but it is obvious allot more comes into play then the base macro and micro mineral salts that we all know and love.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I don't see a link in your post anywhere, maybe I missed it?
For starters, organic compounds cannot be used by the plant and need to be broken down. Secondly, those compounds that the plant finally uses are the same ones readily available in 'synthetic' fertilizers which can be used in the dirt or in hydro. I have 10 years experience in the dirt (organic and inorganic) and about 4 in hydro and the same ignorance comes up every time when comparing these growing methods/mediums. It's fun to write about 'terpenoids' but when referring to them in any other sense other than their role in aroma is just unfounded.
The best results you'll ever get is from feeding your plants what they need, when they need it, in the amounts that are needed. In addition, keeping plants green, lush and healthy from start to finish will insure that you're getting the most out of your genetics. You downplay the role of the essential elements but I'd love to see your attempt at growing a plant without them. Theory and unsighted references aside, it sounds like you have little to no experience in hydro.
randomseed
Active Member
Oy, Im not even getting dragged into this.
You guys have fun with the waterworks.
Happy new year!
You guys have fun with the waterworks.
Happy new year!
Brick Top
New Member
When someone talks about terpenoids it can become very detailed. The one word is used in a blanket form, all encompassing when it comes to aroma, but it really breaks down much farther than that and terpenoids do account for more than just "aroma."
As is said in the second piece below; "The bottom line is that all of the reported different effects of
different varieties of Cannabis are reputed to be from the Cannabinoids. But besides the effects from THC and very occasional small amounts of CBD found in herbal Cannabis, all of the different reported subjective effects are in fact from the Terpenoids/THC."
More from IC mag
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the post Brick and Im aware of the role terpenoids can play in the aroma, taste and in the perceived affects. What the poster was implying is that the difference that the OP is seeing in his crops is somehow related to terpenoids, or lack thereof, basically opening up a soil vs hydro debate. Im in dirt and hydro and do both very well. I have my opinions about this matter based on 10 years actual experience and if someone is implying that certain essential elements dont play a role in essential oil production, or that fermented organic matter cant be added to hydro feeding schedules increasing essential oil production, well theyre dead wrong. Does the growing method, the growing medium, or feeding outside the 16 essential elements even make a noticeable difference? Grow hard for ten years in a variety of mediums and methods and youll find your answer. What the poster was subtly implying is that he lacks experience with different growing mediums and thats ok. Perpetuating ignorance based on ones growing preference is not.
Brick Top
New Member
If it comes down to a pure hydro question I would not be the one to answer it. My 38 years of growing experience, well, nearly 39 years now, have all been in soil but never with hydro.
My point was simply saying terpenoids is like saying cannabinoids when in a circumstance what really needs to be referred to would be the various different cannabinoids and their various different precursors rather than just using a simplified sort of one word for everything way of discussing the issue.
mr.smileyface
Well-Known Member
Yo its all about the diff. Temps in the day vs temps at night.
In a sealed room there isnt much air flow. I have grown both way and this is from experiance.
In a sealed rooms temps are more crutal. Where as growing in a well ventilated room temps arent as big as an issue.
Try getting your night time temps to at least 20c and your day time temps no more than 27.
Remember co2 doesnt change the strains potentcy just make more bud. It may change the looks of the bud and size but it doesnt change the strain.
Its all about Temps and skill. Each 1000w needs about 4000 btus in a sealed room. Try adding more fans to make up for air flow.
The quallity drop is due to temps.
In a sealed room there isnt much air flow. I have grown both way and this is from experiance.
In a sealed rooms temps are more crutal. Where as growing in a well ventilated room temps arent as big as an issue.
Try getting your night time temps to at least 20c and your day time temps no more than 27.
Remember co2 doesnt change the strains potentcy just make more bud. It may change the looks of the bud and size but it doesnt change the strain.
Its all about Temps and skill. Each 1000w needs about 4000 btus in a sealed room. Try adding more fans to make up for air flow.
The quallity drop is due to temps.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Your godamned right, randomseed. "Largely not understood" being the key phrase, here. It's OK not to understand or have the ability to quantify some things. In fact, the biological process is so complex, we are vain to think we could ever fully understand it. I believe there are more things going on with our plants than just what makes them big and green and healthy. Of course big and healthy is good. But, bag appeal only gets you so far. Just because there is currently little to no scientific reason for organic pot to taste better and be more potent, doesn't mean it isn't so.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I guess everyone wants to believe that their chosen method to grow yields the best product
.Im curious if you have tried a side by side compare with the same clones and which it is you prefer? And if you say that they are the same, then my next question is why would you do both if they are both the same?
I will admit that I am a novice hydro grower having only done it practically for about 1 year total. Which is where my surprise comes in, in that there is such a difference. It was only after I started comparing the two that I noticed a difference.
Collective Gardener, this is what I was getting at when I talked about the 'nutrient dense foods' hypothesis. When talking about biology or soil or physics or most anything, we should start the sentence with 'at our current level of ignorance we think we know...'. Believe me, Im the first guy to doubt something without a solid mechanism backing it up but I also understand that im ignorant about alot and that people discover things without knowing the exact controlling mechanisms. Mendel understood the basic results of genetics about 100 years before the actual mechanism of DNA et al was figured out in the lab.
Socrates said about 2500 years ago, 'I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance'. Still holds up after all this time, possibly even moreso.
OZUT
Active Member
So explain how it is so...
If you know what you're doing, it doesn't matter if you're in soil, hydro or growing in concrete. Hydro needs are different from soil needs. There are issues that come up in soil that don't come up in hydro and vice versa...I've done both and I've received equal results. I prefer soil because it's more convenient for me. A lot of people and especially new growers will start off one way but then be easily swayed the other when there chosen method was working very well. The problems that come up a lot are when new soil growers jump into hydro and but do there thing like they're still in soil. Soil gives you a buffer that hydro doesn't. It's a lot easier to fuck up in hydro then it is in soil.
No offense to the poster of this thread, but you probably haven't dialed anything in when you switch to hydro. You just changed your medium and expected comparable results. It's not brain surgery but it's not that simple either.
OZUT
Active Member
As to organic being more potent or tasty, that's just bullshit. You can give 100 smokers a sample of both and 90 of them won't be able to tell the difference. The 10 that can were lucky with their guess. It comes more down to properly growing, flushing drying and curing then organics.
solosmoke
Active Member
very very true!!! +rep learn wat your plant wants and when it needs it.
The best results you'll ever get is from feeding your plants what they need, when they need it, in the amounts that are needed. In addition, keeping plants green, lush and healthy from start to finish will insure that you're getting the most out of your genetics. You downplay the role of the essential elements but I'd love to see your attempt at growing a plant without them. Theory and unsighted references aside, it sounds like you have little to no experience in hydro.
The best results you'll ever get is from feeding your plants what they need, when they need it, in the amounts that are needed. In addition, keeping plants green, lush and healthy from start to finish will insure that you're getting the most out of your genetics. You downplay the role of the essential elements but I'd love to see your attempt at growing a plant without them. Theory and unsighted references aside, it sounds like you have little to no experience in hydro.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I only grow clones, except when I add a new strain, then said strain gets grown both ways as soon as I've isolated my favorite pheno. So to answer your question, yes, every strain I have gets grown both ways.
The picture below is my Dumpster strain, the nug on the right was in soil, the one on the left is hydro. By all accounts, these are virtually identical. If I sent these two samples to anyone who is halfway experienced in growing/smoking, there is just no way you could tell a difference and that's my point, hydro and soil, when done correctly, produce the same product.
Now my preferred method of growing is hydro because it's easier, less time consuming, more consistent, and is automated. But at the end of the day when the meds are cured and packaged, I can't even tell which one is which and neither can the patients. I still work with both mediums as they both have their advantages.
So again, it's fun to talk about the 'unknowns' of organic chemistry and draw our own conclusions but if you're a pragmatic grower like myself and you're honest and discerning in your assessment, you'll come to the same conclusions as I have (assuming you can grow very well in a variety of mediums).
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% that it comes down to the grow, flush, and dry 1st. Like many of you, I've grown both hydro and organic for the last 20+years. I love both organic and hydro AND blending the two. Our collective association has 1 primary customer, who happens to insist on organic. Yes, she's a Cali Granola Head, with Granola Head patients. However, most probably couldn't pick the organic in a blind test. I, however, do prefer the flavor and aroma of my organic in a side by side test with my hydro. Believe me...if it made no difference to my clients, I would grow hydro. I like the control hydro gives me and not having to deal with all that soil and the 20+ bags and bottles of "stuff" I need to make a great organic grow happen. However, like many of us, I'm bound to the market. I could probably pass off some hydro as organic, but it's not my style.
We grow a couple 12 week sativas DWC with every crop. We tried them organic and needed 30 gallons of soil to get similar results to the DWC in a 12 gallon tub. So, it really comes down to what you like, what your clients like (if thats a factor), and what a particular strain likes.
I certainly don't want to get into the age old hydro/organic debate; that one has no end! To add insult to injury, a new "veganic" movement has begun.
My hat's off to all my growing brothers and sisters. We've come a long way together.
Can you possibly describe why this is? or what is it that you prefer about it?
sebastopolian
Well-Known Member
First, Want to thank Snow crash love to read, Getting the Books! And everyone talking I just starting using CO2 burner in one of my flowering rooms. It's awesome, but Can be scary @ first. Getting it programmed & working @ optimal conditions can be tedious. Last grow it worked great saw amazing results. But the last two weeks of my grow, I was told to turn it off, because of thc potency. So, I did. It was tell hella good & yeild was great for a low yeilding strain. Goodluck & happy GrowinG. Peace