If you have nothing to hide, why do you care about government surveillence?

R

Rak on Tur'

Active Member
abandonconflict said:
The law enforcement can be trusted to find criminals. Their livelihood depends on it. They will find criminals to arrest, even if there aren't any.
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I understand and see where your coming from, but cops are enforcing the laws that politicians create. I won't argue that law enforcement special intrest groups don't push for certain laws, because they do. Sadly elected officials just tow the "get on tough crime" slogan, even though most the laws do nothing of the sort.

I was a investigator on a corruption case which involved a local business "man" who was giving 14 year old girls cocaine and money for sex. The FBI stepped in and took over because they needed Bill Allen to testify in a political trial against Ted Stevens. The federal prosecutors didn't share information and lied under oath. They got a slap on the wrist and a pedofile got off.

When a government agency uses the courtroom to play politics it should be bothersome to everyone. If one of the most powerful senators in the US can not get a fair trial how can it be expected for the outcome to be any different for the average citizen. It is sickening.
 
R

Rak on Tur'

Active Member
Mr Neutron said:
I disagree. Alcohol, like guns, is not the cause of anything. It is an inanimate object. Even the misuse or abuse of such is not a cause of problems. Plenty of people abuse and misuse alcohol but do not cause any problems, the same with guns.

It is the person(s) who do harm that are the cause of problems. Blaming things like alcohol and guns is just shifting the blame onto something that has nothing to do with the problem.
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More crimes are committed because of human emotion. Be that rage, jealousy, hate, revenge, ect. Booze brings out the worst in some people, especially first nations people since they can't process alcohol the same as most other groups.

While alcohol is just a object, it does add to a lot of social ills. Alcohol related problems dwarfed all the other substance problems combined. In the end it is the individual, most have some sort of personality disorder.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rak on Tur' said:
More crimes are committed because of human emotion. Be that rage, jealousy, hate, revenge, ect. Booze brings out the worst in some people, especially first nations people since they can't process alcohol the same as most other groups.

While alcohol is just a object, it does add to a lot of social ills. Alcohol related problems dwarfed all the other substance problems combined. In the end it is the individual, most have some sort of personality disorder.
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I can't argue with this, but i frown on prohibition. It caused many more problems than it purported to solve. Guns, drugs etc. won't be much different. cn
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
And if you have a disorder, you might turn to drink, it will make it worse, true. But, it can give you a disorder, all on it's on. I'm going through this with an old friend. Dr. Jekyl by day...get the picture? In fact, due to the meds I take, I haven't drank in years. Yet, my friend takes much the same. The bottles say, DO NOT TAKE WITH ALCOHOL.

Now, there are other warnings on other meds, less stern....no heavy machinery, all that. But, I know that DO NOT is serious.

But, pills, with DO NOT are doled out like candy these days. So, I have a long experience with all drugs. Only a few of the far out, boutique stuff, I passed. I was very abusive and had a hard time getting past cocaine, etc. But, alcohol was the worse. It is, IMO, far more additive than all else.

It is at least as debilitating long term, as anything. The poor liver. We take micrograms, milligrams, but then with booze, it is ounces of alcohol. If it hasn't turned on you yet, I hope it will. It cost me bucks, jail. DUI diversion courses. The Highway Patrol even lifted an 1/8 of greenbud. "Ah, silly sauce!," he says. It disappeared into his pocket.

Also, in the end, it is more tolerance building than Valium. Move easily up to a quart a day. I did. Drink a quart a day until you blow that artery in your throat. That happened to another guy i know. He didn't make it.

It's very similar to cocaine addiction to me. A little bit is not enough, and any more is way too much. :)

But, knock yourself out. In my experience, there are few tolerable drunks and many sociopaths that are hiding in alcohol.
 
R

Rak on Tur'

Active Member
cannabineer said:
I can't argue with this, but i frown on prohibition. It caused many more problems than it purported to solve. Guns, drugs etc. won't be much different. cn
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I'm definitely against prohibition, it creates far more problems than it solves. Here in rural villages a 1/5th goes for 300$, and abuse is rampant. As much as people might try, you can not legislate morality. It's a bad idea to begin with, and frankly it just doesn't work. Putting users in jail does nothing but kill that individual's chance for recovery, then leaves them with a drug charge on their record. That effects education and employment opportunities, treatment is the only realistic approach I have always felt. God forbid we give people a second chance.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
aknight3 said:
I say to the government of the United States: ''If I'm not doing anything wrong why should the government care what I'm doing? I thought we were innocent until proven guilty."
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Clearly, you've never been falsely arrested. It's a real eye opener
 
S

spandy

Well-Known Member
I cant imagine what it would be like to be falsely accused, especially purposefully, by law enforcment, and strung along like some piece of meat for them to show off to their mindless followers, which sadly is much of society. I'd go law abidding citizen on their ass.

Come to my door with intentions of putting me in a cage for opinions, religion, and/or your own personal bullshit morals when I have done nothing to no other, and I'll bring a monster to your door while you sleep. Dont care if you are "just doing your job" to feed your family and pay your bills, it doesn't excuse the evil that they are spreading, whether it be knowingly or in ignorance.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Clearly, you've never been falsely arrested. It's a real eye opener
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Ain't that the truth...or to just get assaulted and not arrested, and/or get arrested and then get assaulted. Eye opener.

And these days, forgetaboutit. They are Enforcement and Apprehension (pun) Psychologists. I have to laugh because I'm a polite and cool, dyed in the wool, Citizen wiggle worm with finally enough experience. I always get along with the law. They usually think I'm funny, after all the little ploys crash and burn. You know the looming...suggesting that I'm angry, the hard flat stare, crowding, looking me over from close range. Such fun.

Me, a tottering old gentleman, got my car broken into, a hatchback. I call to make a report. So, here I am at the back of the car and the hatch is closed. Report is over and done, they are leaving.

Of course, however, the 3 now 4 Blues of my fair city, would love to rummage in there, if they can get me to open it.

So, one of them says, hey what is that book? (Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding) I turn to look over and I feel the press. OK. I'm now facing my car. Another one says, body building, are you on steroids or somethING! ????

Hmmmm....now they are thinking 'roid rage, get him sweating. Press in.

So, I calmly leaned back against the press and straighten up. I slowly turn around, and I'm looking into the shirt button of the largest Red Head Swede, I have ever seen. I slowly raise my face, and he is 6'4", in battle gear.

I said, looking him in the eye, flat tone neutral "you work out." Gufaw!! Not him. The other guys, broke up laughing. One slapped my shoulder and said, ya all right, man...chuckling. Big Red was not amused so I didn't change my gaze. He walked away with them.

It's all a test. Just be sure to pass.
 
R

Rak on Tur'

Active Member
abandonconflict said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836#.UZsmk5xn3cg
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I would think they would want a smart person, I don't buy the getting bored part and quitting. Over the years the type of person they look for has changed, and it shows. There seems to be a new level of aggression, that was before only reserved for violent criminals.

When law enforcement is forced to be diplomatic it works, when the have enough cops that they no longer have to be you see it start to backfire. Watching some of the videos that people recorded the officer I can just shake my head. I bet most never even get fired.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Rak on Tur' said:
I would think they would want a smart person, I don't buy the getting bored part and quitting. Over the years the type of person they look for has changed, and it shows. There seems to be a new level of aggression, that was before only reserved for violent criminals.

When law enforcement is forced to be diplomatic it works, when the have enough cops that they no longer have to be you see it start to backfire. Watching some of the videos that people recorded the officer I can just shake my head. I bet most never even get fired.
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Smart people are probably less likely to follow unlawful orders.
 
Mr Neutron

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Rak on Tur' said:
More crimes are committed because of human emotion. Be that rage, jealousy, hate, revenge, ect. Booze brings out the worst in some people, especially first nations people since they can't process alcohol the same as most other groups.

While alcohol is just a object, it does add to a lot of social ills. Alcohol related problems dwarfed all the other substance problems combined. In the end it is the individual, most have some sort of personality disorder.
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Would you be in favor of alcohol prohibition? Or a limited prohibition where an individual would be limited to a certain amount of total alcohol consumed in a certain period of time? (ie, 2 ounces of alcohol per 24 hour period)
 
R

Rak on Tur'

Active Member
Mr Neutron said:
Would you be in favor of alcohol prohibition? Or a limited prohibition where an individual would be limited to a certain amount of total alcohol consumed in a certain period of time? (ie, 2 ounces of alcohol per 24 hour period)
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No I wouldn't be in favor of prohibition of alcohol because it doesn't work. Setting limits doesn't either, that is something our state has in certain places. It's just a total waste of time and tax dollars trying to enforce.

Treatment for those with problems with any substance is far more of a reasonable approach. There are always going to be problem individuals in any group, it makes no sense to punish the majority for the problems of a select few. Lowering the BAC limit is a perfect example of that.
 
R

Rak on Tur'

Active Member
abandonconflict said:
Smart people are probably less likely to follow unlawful orders.
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I think they would be less likely to follow the group think mentality. I am kinda curious if they give a IQ test nation wide, I never took one, but I started in 1950's.

I have always got a chuckle out of the fact that a test that's used to gauge mental retardation has become a test of intelligence over the years.
 
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