IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

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Icemud420

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Chronikool

Well-Known Member
(basically shit talking without validity which I know roll it up is famous for) To each their own and respect is earned, not given, so when they decide to actually present information and rational of why these lights are "inferior" to whatever their preference is, maybe I might actually respect what they have to say.
I have contacted them as a result of our conversation...i am expecting the answers that you have promoted in your previous posts

I'll will meet you halfway on this...you also have to remember that YOU dont have the validity and HAVENT presented information to say they are NOT inferior...aka the answerz given by you were a bit 'wafty' :)

Grow looks good by the way... :)
 

Bad Karma

Well-Known Member
I appreciate your response... can I ask what about them don't meet the "gurus" standards? That's great and all that I came to a place where other pro's are, but I don't understand why a pro would throw blanket statements out, without giving actual fact behind the statement? (not speaking in regards to you).

So what about these lights is not up to your supposed standards?
For example, we like to know the bin number of the diodes used to make the light. That way, we know for sure what parts are used, and nobody gets screwed over. Those are the kind of standards we keep around here, we like to know what diodes, drivers, heat sinks, and spectrum are used. Our collection of gurus started out as a rag tag bunch of LED users who were tired of getting screwed over with false advertising. So we all banded together, shared our experiences, and formed this sub-forum. Chronikool is one of our DIY gurus, so he knows his shit. He does have a pension for stirring things up though, but usually only for fun.
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
For example, we like to know the bin number of the diodes used to make the light. That way, we know for sure what parts are used, and nobody gets screwed over. Those are the kind of standards we keep around here, we like to know what diodes, drivers, heat sinks, and spectrum are used. Our collection of gurus started out as a rag tag bunch of LED users who were tired of getting screwed over with false advertising. So we all banded together, shared our experiences, and formed this sub-forum. Chronikool is one of our DIY gurus, so he knows his shit. He does have a pension for stirring things up though, but usually only for fun.

Thank you Bad Karma for elaborating on what kind of info you would be looking at. It at least gives me the questions to ask to the company so I can get this information to everyone. I apologize that I probably came off a little pushy and aggressive and understand your reasoning behind the doubts... I too am very skeptical of LED lighting companies, matter of fact it took me 3 years of research to even jump into the industry, as I was a HID user (HPS and Ceramic Metal Halide) I too find plant lighting to be very key to giving us the plants and qualities we want.. I mean we adjust soils, and temps and humidity, so why not adjust lights to our liking as well. Either way I apologize for my "promotion" of these lights in the way I did, but I do look forward to getting this information so that we can have a LED company that is 100% working for better lights for us growers. I do know that this is the focus of IGrow and the owner truely does care about making the best lights for all of us. I will see what kind of answers I can get and post them here and my journal for everyones benefit. I do have to say, I've used HID, and other cheeper LED brands, and so far, these lights (at this time) are giving me the results I haven't seen from the other lighting sources. (not marketing, just real results) . Anyhow I hope you all come visit my journal as I will try to make it to each of yours to check out what you are all using and how they are working. I too have a fascination with plant lighting and want the absolute best for my ladies...
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
I have contacted them as a result of our conversation...i am expecting the answers that you have promoted in your previous posts

I'll will meet you halfway on this...you also have to remember that YOU dont have the validity and HAVENT presented information to say they are NOT inferior...aka the answerz given by you were a bit 'wafty' :)

Grow looks good by the way... :)
Thank you Chronikool... I too will see what answers I can get from them, and I appreciate you meeting me half way. I too am very skeptical about any "new" growing products because I do agree that businesses look at us growers as goldmines for their products. I definitely have done my due diligence in regards to LED lighting and I understand how much BS is floating around this part of the growing industry, so I don't disagree with everyone's want to see the actual facts. (I just had no input on which details/specs people wanted for comparison)

Im definitely all for 'red flagging" a product that is crap, but I also do this tastefully and list my reasons why the conclusion was drawn so we will see what happens with this current test grow, but so far I have to say I am very impressed with the results of these lights vs my cheaper Mars II, and reflector LED, and even my CMH and HPS bulbs.

The one thing that I really like about these lights is the fact that the spectrum can be "tuned" to the individual growers needs, being that we can actually use these lights to promote photomorphogenesis to our benefits by turning down blue to induce more stretch, or dimming the actual power draw with young clones and such so were not using excess energy. I honestly have been waiting for this type of flexibility to come around, and once I make feminized seeds and get some more space to do comparison grows, I will be doing shootouts, as welll as I will be doing a 100% intensity vs Igrow dimming schedule to see how much difference running them at both options. Either way thank you for being explanitory and I look forward to showing how good these lights are in my journal (well so far) :) peace my new friend..
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
I see an RGB controller to dim your lights and change spectrums because certain wavelengths are 'unnecessary' and can be eliminated by the smart controller. Ambitious but misguided. I don't want to dim my lights and I don't want to deny it the spectums I 'think' they don't need. Most growers will want the full intensities to meet the plants Moles/Day DLI. Dimming the lights in an indoor garden is not an intelligent approach at all. Simply change the photoperiod if you must adjust DLI. Also in the video you call the panels full spectrum. The sun is full spectrum. A 200 watt LED panel is not. You have gaps all over between 400-700nm and you're own spectral distribution graphs bear that out. That is to be expected. Just don't call it full spectrum. They are not.

While we wait to see how well the lights perform based on your journal of this grow and actual plant response perhaps you can provide us;

uMole readings at various points from the canopy facing the lights.
Mfg warranty and where are they actually manufactured and repaired under that warranty.
Price for the two panels and controller
What third party certification do they have and what is the file number?
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
While we wait to see how well the lights perform based on your journal of this grow and actual plant response perhaps you can provide us;

uMole readings at various points from the canopy facing the lights.
Mfg warranty and where are they actually manufactured and repaired under that warranty.
Price for the two panels and controller
What third party certification do they have and what is the file number?[/QUOTE]

I will see if I can get those answers for you, as well as everyone.

These are the benefits I see from the controller:

It actually isn't a RBG controller, there is no green diodes in the light. The light does cover all spectrums between 380nm-760, with no gaps, *due to 3 different color temp white chips in the units, this covers all visible spectrums in the PAR range, so I don't see how it is not a full spectrum light, when it covers all parts of the PAR spectrum and even beyond to the McCree curve and action spectrum. The only possible "gap" that I see would be around 490nm due to this being the achilles heal of most white led emmitters in this range (including cree xlamps which dip around 490nm) The only other "gap" that I can possibly see is around 700nm but it is not completely a gap since this area does receive coverage.

I actually think you are looking at the controller option 1 way... first off, LED's are used for many other plants than cannabis, yes cannabis definitely is the market that most LED manufacturers make their money and all, but not all plants are plants that require 700umol of light to produce. By giving plants more umol than their saturation point can handle then you are actually hindering photosynthetic response. The ability to dim these panels gives flexibility to growers using them for other purposes.

These are the spectroradiometer readings on the generation 1 lights...the generation 2 lights actually feature a better blue end profile as well as the white diodes were changed on gen 2 models so in a few weeks they will be doing new tests with a spectroradimeter to get the new readings.

228-spectrum4.png

Also, im not sure if your aware or not, but plants go through a mid day depression where photosynthetic rates decreses and slow down at mid day, this is the plants response to the "sun" being at high noon where more UV is hitting the surface of the earths surface due to less filtering in the atmosphere. So by ramping up the intensity slowly instead of giving full intensity all day, this has the possibility of increasing photosynthetive effectiveness throughtout the day, eliminating the mid day depression plants go through.

Studies have acutally shown on young plants, the best photosynthetic response was in medium levels of irradiance, where as too low or too high of Umol readings showed plant stress responses in photosystem II hindering growth.

Another controller benefit that I see is that through manipulating the color channels you can manipulate plant growth through their photoproteins and photo morphogenesis. We all know that all strains have different growth traits....OG Kush is normally very lanky, long internodes and such, vs a bubba kush, snort stubby plant with tight internodes. So what if you are growing the bubba, and you want it to be more spread out and stretchy... with the Igro lights, you can slowly dim down the blue to induce more stretchy growth. And Vice versa, you can add more blue and limit red if your plants are stretching too much... cant do this with any other panels...your stuck with the spectral output soldered in the panels.

Plants also have been shown that in different light irradiances they produce different chemical profiles in plants, matter of fact, it is show that plants grown in shaded environments can actually show higher oil productions than ones grown in direct sunlight, and with cannabis, isn't essential oils one of the things we go for in heavy production?

Lastly, the lights do not have to be used with the controller and can be run at just 100% full intensity all the time.. so with this being said, when comparing panels in the price/wattage categories, the Igro lights are actually slightly cheaper than Advanced LED, Lush, Blackdog and many other brands, hosting same features. So if you didn't see use for the controller, then you could just use it at 100% intensity and still get a better price than buying a different panel with the same features (on/off).

I do agree with you that photosynthesis is a direct relation with light irradiance levels, CO2 availability and temperature and that typically the more light, the higher the photosynthetic rate assuming CO2 and temperature are in correlation with the plants requirements. But I also see that studies show plant fatigue in extreme high irradiance levels, I think that there is more use to a dimmable controller that we know what to do with at this time.

I know that new concepts can be uncomfortable as people get familiar with what works, but step outside your familiarities and you will see that there is many potential uses for a controllable dimming light, that other fixed intensity and spectrum lights cant do...

Hope this helped man.
 
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membrane99

Active Member
Looking to get into some LED grow lights. I see there are 2 types: one with switches for blue/red lights, and one that is "full spectrum". Is it necessary to be able to add additional red light in the flowering stage, or will the "full spectrum" type of lights be sufficient? I'm looking to grow about 10-12 clones in the next week or so.

Example:
switch type: ZNET12 (eBay)
full spectrum type: vipar 400w (eBay)
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
Hey Chazbolin...I also want to let you know that I too am very curious what kind of affects it will have on plant growth, so after I get my feminized seed project underway, and reduce the amount of strains I have on hand, I plan on doing a side by side shootout between 2 Igro panels...one at 100% intensity, fixed schedule, and one at the controller automated dimming schedule. I am very curious to see how this effects the plant growth... Reminds me of the Gas Lantern Routine where many growers were like BS, less light can't possible veg as fast, and yet it does, with better plant health because of reduced stress.... so if the lights grow equally or near equally in the dimming vs non dimming test, the we know with dimming we can get same results for hundreds of dollars less on our electricity bills....so just to let you know, my curiosity is also in this realm, and so I will be doing this side by side, as soon as I can get some more growing room in my available space. I also will be testing their new generation 2 panels in a week or 2 so that also will be another test grow to check out...
 

FranJan

Well-Known Member
"I know that new concepts can be uncomfortable as people get familiar with what works, but step outside your familiarities and you will see that there is many potential uses for a controllable dimming light, that other fixed intensity and spectrum lights cant do..."

I hate when salesmen say shit like this. It's a nice way of calling you ignorant and trying to bait you into trying whatever it is they're pushing. I had a weasel ass friend who used to sell steaks and lobsters door to door and when he thought he was losing his customer , he used to say shit like, "I guess you're just not ready for this yet" or "I'll be back when you're ready for this." and I tell ya motherfuckers would get kinda mad and buy his shit. Even PetFlora does that shit with his "new concepts are hard for people to grasp" bullshit when he's losing another pointless spectrum argument.

And I can assure you IceMud it's only a technicality that that light "covers all spectrums" or whatever you said. First off, who did this company use for independent testing to generate that spectral graph and more importantly, do you really think the amount and intensity of most of that light is usable by the plant? Puhleeease. :roll:
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Mole readings at various points from the canopy facing the lights.
Mfg warranty and where are they actually manufactured and repaired under that warranty.
Price for the two panels and controller
What third party certification do they have and what is the file number?
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
"I know that new concepts can be uncomfortable as people get familiar with what works, but step outside your familiarities and you will see that there is many potential uses for a controllable dimming light, that other fixed intensity and spectrum lights cant do..."

I hate when salesmen say shit like this. It's a nice way of calling you ignorant and trying to bait you into trying whatever it is they're pushing. I had a weasel ass friend who used to sell steaks and lobsters door to door and when he thought he was losing his customer , he used to say shit like, "I guess you're just not ready for this yet" or "I'll be back when you're ready for this." and I tell ya motherfuckers would get kinda mad and buy his shit. Even PetFlora does that shit with his "new concepts are hard for people to grasp" bullshit when he's losing another pointless spectrum argument.

And I can assure you IceMud it's only a technicality that that light "covers all spectrums" or whatever you said. First off, who did this company use for independent testing to generate that spectral graph and more importantly, do you really think the amount and intensity of most of that light is usable by the plant? Puhleeease. :roll:
I'm a grower who is testing these lights, not a salesman..(so please save your rants and misdirected comments for that salesperson, which I am NOT) . and it IS human nature to be skeptical of new things... matter of fact I remember back half a decade ago when LED's first were emerging in the market...NOBODY thought they could grow plants to the extent of HID.... Look at the industry today, where now LEDs are considered to an alternative to HID and successful at growing plants..

I also remember the Gas Lantern Routine getting the same response... "What..BS you can't grow plants with 13 hours of light the same as 18 hours of light"" ... well I do! and my plants are healthier, my electric bill is lighter and the growth rate is virtually the same... but 90% of the people I suggested this to came up with the same resonse... "NO WAY, that cant' work..and now they all are using it and wont turn back)

do you think the first person to say the world is round, was publicly accepted and that information made people believe it??? You must with the way your are so sure that it is some clever sales tactic by saying that..?? its the truth!

I will find out where the tests were taken, and I know that this company is going to be testing their new gen 2 panels in a few weeks with a spectroradiometer. So there will be results as soon as they do this and I will make sure I get them, because I also want this information.

As far as YPF or the Yield Photon Flux, I don't have this information (I don't work for IGRO) , based on the photosynthtic peaks and the diodes they use, as well as the spectroradiometer readings, I would say that a majority of the light generated by these plants actually is used by the plants and addresses the Phototosyntetic action spectrum and McCree curve.

ALL light in the visible spectrum is used by plants... EVEN GREEN! matter of fact at high Umol readings, green is actually more photosynthetically productive then red because the light quanta are able to penetrate deeper into the leaf...(I have the actual studies to prove this if you want them)

If you look at my journal, you will see that these lights are performing extremely well, I welcome you to join and see for yourself. The dimming schedule is being used, and working....so proof is in the pudding...
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
Hey Chaz, I actually replied to this in my journal where you also asked this question... I responded here first, but when I went to my journal I saw that I didn't quite answer your questions...

Umol readings I don't have, I know that with the new Gen2 panels, the company is going to be doing this in the next few weeks, so when they do, and give me this info, I will also share it with you and everyone else.

The warranty can be found on their website, I think it is a 3 year warranty (I don't know what roll it up's rules are about posting external links, so just google Intelligent Gro, go to the website, and the info I think is in their about us section)

The prices also can be found on their website. The setup I currently am running is 2x 228w models which I think retail at $500 each. So around $1000 bucks, I do have a 15% discount code to give out too, (BTW, I don't make commisssions or anything by people using it at all, I think it is just because I am a tester and so they can track the effectiveness of my tests?? not sure)

Certifications I am unsure about, I can ask and see what kind of Certs are available.. Are there specific ones you woud be curious to know?
 

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Yeah I've done 12/1. I did it to save money when I vegged with CFLs. Some strains like it some don't and 20/4 gives the best results from what I, and others, have seen. And your here to sell something. Whether it's an object or your ideology, you're here selling to us. No misdirected rants here. Now put up or........

And yes I do. Once Eratosthanes figured it out and if the people he was telling had half a brain they did believe the earth was round. :)
http://www.thermospokenhere.com/wp/01_tsh/A111___erato/erato.html
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
Yeah I've done 12/1. I did it to save money when I vegged with CFLs. Some strains like it some don't and 20/4 gives the best results from what I, and others, have seen. And your here to sell something. Whether it's an object or your ideology, you're here selling to us. No misdirected rants here. Now put up or........

And yes I do. Once Eratosthanes figured it out and if the people he was telling had half a brain they did believe the earth was round. :)
http://www.thermospokenhere.com/wp/01_tsh/A111___erato/erato.html

Like I said, come check out my journal, they you can see the world is round too...
 

FranJan

Well-Known Member
^^Well with an invitation like that, I wouldn't miss it for the world. Will we be re-inventing the wheel or just changing the course of humanity?
 

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
^^Well with an invitation like that, I wouldn't miss it for the world. Will we be re-inventing the wheel or just changing the course of humanity?
If I was a salesperson, I would say that we are revolutionizing the industry....(but I'm not) so As a grower I'm saying, if you feel like seeing what these lights do, feel free to drop by.. so far I am pleased with the results so far, and I am 28 days into flowering, so if you would like to witness first hand how these lights perform on 7 different strains, then feel free to join along...
 
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