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We have spent many, many man-hours building prototypes trying to get the most Umol'/s per cubic foot per watt consumed possible, and the SGS-160 and XGS-190 are results of those man-hours. We went through many different shape, power and size prototypes. We have tested many different spectrums and ratios, and our testing has led us down 2 different successful paths, 1) White and red LEDs and 2) All white LEDs. We 1st released the white + red spectrum in early 2013, then for 2014 we're releasing an all (warm) white LED panel using ultra efficient Cree XTE LEDs.

We have learned that in our testing of many different spectrums and ratios, when comparing all of our yields against the spectrum and Umol'/s over 4 years of growing (with LEDs), one thing that correlates from grow to grow: Yield directly relates to how many Umol'/s there were per cubic foot, not watts consumed, not some fancy spectrum, it just comes down to (the right amount of) Umol'/s and a well balanced spectrum with not too much emphasis on blue or green.

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This is a quote from Area 51's Information page, so here's what I'd like to get your opinions on:
it states that Umol's/ft is the most important metric, above spectrum.

Do you think this all white spectrum of the XGS-190 is more optimum for flowering than the older SGS-160 model which does have some red?

I finally have time to write something about the Sol 9. I have been using the magnum plus and plus2 with 1 GPW results, so now I'm ready to up my power bill. So for the light is more than I expected. Mostly on the lateral light compared to a lensed LED. This truly covers a 5'x5' area @ 12" with good light. It also has more white to it compared to the Magnums. My eyes don't have to readjust for 10 sec. every time I leave the room. At 3" off the LED, it's quite warm but not hot. The light has been over my plants since Monday and no signs of light burn, just very happy leaves. All reaching toward the light. For more on my room, look at 1200 watt LED perpetual grow. I did have to switch my intake back to under the house for the cooler air. With the CO2 burner and the new light, it maintains 78* with it being 40s outside.

AdmiralSurf said:

So am I gathering that the less-expensive Mars II lights from TopLED are only breaking even with the A51's?

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Dude got arrested so we may never know. If they were breaking even they were breaking even with A51 lights from several years ago.

Im gearing up to do a TopLed vs A51 shoot out though. Two 4x4 tents one with the MarsII 1200 and one with two Area 51 XGS-190s. Should be a good show.

Redoctober said:

This is a quote from Area 51's Information page, so here's what I'd like to get your opinions on:
it states that Umol's/ft is the most important metric, above spectrum.

Do you think this all white spectrum of the XGS-190 is more optimum for flowering than the older SGS-160 model which does have some red?

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This is the spectrum from the XGS-190
View attachment 2934479
As you can see there is quite a bit of red in there so it should be great for flowering despite being all white. The creator of the light seems to think they are better and I'm inclined to believe him.

Spiko said:

Im gearing up to do a TopLed vs A51 shoot out though. Two 4x4 tents one with the MarsII 1200 and one with two Area 51 XGS-190s. Should be a good show.

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Yeah after spending countless hours scouring through multiple forums, I'm starting to fear I just paid double what I should have paid for my 3x3 tent. It seems like a whole bunch of people are killing it with the Mars II lights.

Other than warranty, I don't see why the A51 lights are double the price to cover the same footprint.

Mac vs PC?

Ask A51 for a refund and buy a Mars II if you think they are better.

AdmiralSurf said:

Yeah after spending countless hours scouring through multiple forums, I'm starting to fear I just paid double what I should have paid for my 3x3 tent. It seems like a whole bunch of people are killing it with the Mars II lights.

Other than warranty, I don't see why the A51 lights are double the price to cover the same footprint.

Mac vs PC?

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Eraserhead said:

Ask A51 for a refund and buy a Mars II if you think they are better.

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I don't think either is better, and never said that I did. I was hoping someone would explain why the A51 lights are double the price to cover the same-sized footprint.

EH, as your customer, that response was really not the kind I'd hope to get from the company owner. Comes off extremely pretentious. Would it not be more effective to explain the difference in value an A51 customer gets for the extra money? I bought your light mostly as a result of the positive feedback in this forum, and thus I'd imagine others may arrive here with similar questions. So it seems not in your best interest to make a somewhat childish response like that, and it isn't making me feel any better about my purchase. Is this just a fanboy thread where people are simply supposed to assume you are the God of LED, and not even fairly weigh the competition? Perhaps you'd rather not make this comparison?


Anyhow to get back to the pros & cons of each:

XGS-190 Pros
Lower Wattage?
USA-made Diodes
XGS ability to flip to flowering mode.
Augmented Optics
A51 uses lastest all-white XTE Cree bulbs.
A51 has lifetime warranty.
Gorgeous Photos under white light

XGS-190 Cons
Lower Wattage?
Higher Price
Lack of grow journals validating new tech
Unconventional coverage area (need 2 units for a 4x4 tent)
Pretentious owner?

TopLED Mars II 1200 Pros
Higher Wattage?
Lower Price
Claims to fully cover 4'x4' footprint
Can be custom-ordered with an A51 knock-off diode arrangement (possible cause of bitterness from EH?)
Several successfully completed journals validating the unit

TopLED Mars II 1200 Cons
Higher Wattage?
Hotter temps?
Flower mode only
Chinese made all-around
Ships from China
A51 config is a custom-order
Lack of augmented optics
Warranty? What warranty?
Customer Service


Edits: I'll be happy to keep modifying this comparison list if provided additional Pros & Cons.

AdmiralSurf said:

Yeah after spending countless hours scouring through multiple forums, I'm starting to fear I just paid double what I should have paid for my 3x3 tent. It seems like a whole bunch of people are killing it with the Mars II lights.

Other than warranty, I don't see why the A51 lights are double the price to cover the same footprint.

Mac vs PC?

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No way. The build quality on the Mars II is pretty crap. Mine was full of metal and a bunch of other people as well. I'd say they are flat out dangerous to use and a company like this simply could not exist in the US because they would be sued. I know of 3 units that have failed and customer service is hit or miss. basically they are above average crap from China and Chinese LEDs are just better overall than they were say 3 years ago. Area 51 is in another league all together with Cree diodes. I don't doubt they are also more efficient. Side by side my money is on the A51s but we'll see. Area 51 has the best diodes it's that simple. They also have a much better customer service rep and if they really fuck you, hey, can always take them to court. Good luck trying to sue the Chinese if a sketchy panel burns your house down though.

Spiko said:

No way. The build quality on the Mars II is pretty sketchy. Mine was full of metal and a bunch of other people as well. I know of 3 units that have failed and customer service is hit or miss. basically they are above average crap from China and Chinese LEDs are just better overall than they were say 3 years ago. Area 51 is in another league all together with Cree diodes. I don't doubt they are also more efficient. Side by side my money is on the A51s but we'll see.

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I have no problem believing any of that, however is it worth double the price to cover a 4x4? If someone has $500 to spend and the only thing they care about is GPW, would the Mars II be the best option? I'd have loved to hear something from EH about how more efficient their unit is with the watts they consume, and how it could match a higher-rated Mars II. Unfortunately I got a snarky comment instead. We all know how LED companies exaggerate. Is there any evidence to show that the TopLED lights produce less GPW?

AdmiralSurf said:

Can be custom-ordered with an A51 knock-off diode arrangement (possible cause of bitterness from EH?)
Several successfully completed journals validating the unit

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Dude...they straight up reverse engineered his panel at the request of another one of his customers. I'd be kind of pissed too. I watched that whole thing unfold it was kind of hilarious and tragic. There is just nothing that can be done. The Chinese give no fucks.

AdmiralSurf said:

I have no problem believing any of that, however is it worth double the price to cover a 4x4? If someone has $500 to spend and the only thing they care about is GPW, would the Mars II be the best option? I'd have loved to hear something from EH about how more efficient their unit is with the watts they consume, and how it could match a higher-rated Mars II. Unfortunately I got a snarky comment instead. We all know how LED companies exaggerate. Is there any evidence to show that the TopLED lights produce less GPW?

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Nope, but I aim to find out. I already have my Mars II and Im planning on buying my A51 very soon. Should be fun eh?

Wow, someone is blowing what I said out of proportion...

Area 51 is not about high watts and low quality low performing low cost parts, there's a reason Top LEDs cost less. Area 51 is about high PAR, high quality high performing parts and low watts. Cree LEDs cost 3-4Xs as much as those no name Taiwanese LEDs. Of course the lamp will cost more. Do you go to a Tesla car dealership and cry about their $120'000 price because you buy a Chevy Spark for $25'000? Tesla uses more expensive parts and the price reflects on that. Area 51 uses more expensive parts, and the prices reflect on that.

As for Top/LG "copying" my spectrum from 2 years ago, good for them. They are just now catching up to what I did more than 2 years ago, they must be so proud.

If you unhappy with your purchase, which you do not even have yet, by all means you should return it. It's your money, buy what you want with it. But complaining on a forum for something you do not even have yet, then going on a little tantrum calling me "pretentious" when I suggested to return the light so you can buy something that you do want, it is silly of you. And honestly, I do not want your business.

AdmiralSurf said:

I don't think either is better, and never said that I did. I was hoping someone would explain why the A51 lights are double the price to cover the same-sized footprint.

EH, as your customer, that response was really not the kind I'd hope to get from the company owner. Comes off extremely pretentious. Would it not be more effective to explain the difference in value an A51 customer gets for the extra money? I bought your light mostly as a result of the positive feedback in this forum, and thus I'd imagine others may arrive here with similar questions. So it seems not in your best interest to make a somewhat childish response like that, and it isn't making me feel any better about my purchase. Is this just a fanboy thread where people are simply supposed to assume you are the God of LED, and not even fairly weigh the competition? Perhaps you'd rather not make this comparison?


Anyhow to get back to the pros & cons of each:

XGS-190 Pros
Lower Wattage?
USA-made Diodes
XGS ability to flip to flowering mode.
Augmented Optics
A51 uses lastest all-white XTE Cree bulbs.
A51 has lifetime warranty.
Gorgeous Photos under white light

XGS-190 Cons
Lower Wattage?
Higher Price
Lack of grow journals validating new tech
Unconventional coverage area (need 2 units for a 4x4 tent)
Pretentious owner?

TopLED Mars II 1200 Pros
Higher Wattage?
Lower Price
Claims to fully cover 4'x4' footprint
Can be custom-ordered with an A51 knock-off diode arrangement (possible cause of bitterness from EH?)
Several successfully completed journals validating the unit

TopLED Mars II 1200 Cons
Higher Wattage?
Hotter temps?
Flower mode only
Chinese made all-around
Ships from China
A51 config is a custom-order
Lack of augmented optics
Warranty? What warranty?
Customer Service


Edits: I'll be happy to keep modifying this comparison list if provided additional Pros & Cons.

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Tesla's have been recalled for the battery or charger starting fires on several cars. They are being investigated.

I've been eyeing the Tesla Model S, hopefully they get whatever the problem is straightened out before the end of 2014, because I want one.

I made that comparison to make a point. There's a lot of analogies that can be used... The point is, LG/Top is copying a light that I made towards the end of 2011, and that they use cheap parts that cost very little.

Have you heard about the cheaper Tesla being released in 2015. Its around $60k

I have not seen or heard of it yet, though it does sound interesting. I just recently started looking at cars again. I sold my SC430 to start my business in 2011, bought a Mazda and my roommate uses it more than me. I plan to pay cash for whatever I do end up buying, I'm not into banks or financing.

hyroot said:

Tesla's have been recalled for the battery or charger starting fires on several cars. They are being investigated.

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Don't like to contaminate this thread, but I have to correct something. The Teslas that caught fire all hit something big in the road which damaged their batteries on the underside of the car. And that's 3 cars out of 20,000. And everyone walked away unharmed. Gas powered cars catch fire at a much higher rate. The problem has been blown out of proportion in the media, because the car's had stellar reviews in every respect. This would be a good time to buy stock in the company in my opinion. The hysteria will blow over eventually.

If you unhappy with your purchase, which you do not even have yet, by all means you should return it. It's your money, buy what you want with it. But complaining on a forum for something you do not even have yet, then going on a little tantrum calling me "pretentious" when I suggested to return the light so you can buy something that you do want, it is silly of you. And honestly, I do not want your business.

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Wow I'm astonished at this guy's audacity. I hope for the sake of his employees that the business can survive with that kind of mentality at the reigns. I hope future customers see the way you acted here before making their purchase decision.

First off: I was happy with my purchase until your latest response. I mentioned being worried about paying a bit much, but honestly was just intent on learning a bit more about the light I just purchased. I got the light in a bit of haste and was hoping to hear from this crowd--who overwhelmingly favor your light--why it's better than the ones for half the price. Since people are getting good results with both competitors, I was naturally looking to feel confident I had gotten the better unit.

Shouldn't have this been a slam-dunk opportunity for you to promote the advantages the new XGS over the competition?

Seriously dude. You just came in here with a snoody, pretentious, "Fuck you if you don't know my light is the best" kind of attitude. What are you like, the "Soup Nazi" of LED lighting? Did my consumer curiosity insult you somehow?

You're not quite Steve Jobs yet, broski...
...though I don't doubt you read his books.

I bought YOUR light dude! Why the harsh treatment? I wanted to feel better about being your customer and instead made me regret doing business with you.

I got my answer though: Maybe the Tesla vs Chevy fair. Either will certainly get you from point A to B, but the Tesla has higher quality parts and prestige. So you summed it up.

Mac vs. PC.

I'm done here. I'll skip your return process. What I will do is buy the Mars II with the Area 51 spec and do a detailed grow journal pitting the two against each other.

If the A51 wins... ...You win, and I buy your 'iLed' panel again. In that case, it'll be just like when I bought an iPad. I knew I'd be giving money to a self righteous megaloman, but it was just the best damn tablet around.

I'm a pretty fair and experienced reviewer. I've written countless reviews in my years. It's a shame you didn't want me on your side bud.

To everyone else reading this. I apologize for the rant and hope you all are well medicated! Stay tuned for my logs with the iLed of grow panels!

daveroller said:

Don't like to contaminate this thread, but I have to correct something. The Teslas that caught fire all hit something big in the road which damaged their batteries on the underside of the car. And that's 3 cars out of 20,000. And everyone walked away unharmed. Gas powered cars catch fire at a much higher rate. The problem has been blown out of proportion in the media, because the car's had stellar reviews in every respect. This would be a good time to buy stock in the company in my opinion. The hysteria will blow over eventually.

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there was alot more than 3. Another one happened yesterday in Irvine, ca. In a garage

You know top led is a rebrand of LG led solutions. The mars II are made to the same specs as black dog
.

if I were to go chineses led's I would go with evergrow. They make the vipars. There's always Hans (bonsai hero) led and apache tech, then induction (inda gro) or CMH (Philips allstart). I would go for any of those before LG.