IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dark76

Active Member
az2000 said:
With only 5' of height I don't think I'd recommend it. The 5w diodes inside reflectors requires some distance from the canopy.
Click to expand...
Your comment begs a question I've been thinking about for awhile, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

I've been enraptured by all the shiny objects that are hot topics in sundry discussions of late: DIY and Commercial COB lamps. Having been growing with a junky LED circa 2009-2010 in a ... shudder... cabinet (46 x 30 x 78), I have no hope of devoting an entire room to growing, with lights hanging from the ceiling in more of a greenhouse set up.

So, where are these cutting edge lights applicable? Rooms only? 6, 7, 8, or 9 ft height? Gorilla Grow with extensions but no Secret Jardin at 5 ft?

Which bulbs should we look for when trying to minimize unnecessary heat while growing in non-industrial spaces while growing various strains (Tall Sativa to shorter Indica) in various styles (LST & SCROG to untrimmed 1970's style bushes--- ok, trees. But bushes matches the 1970s porn metaphor better)?

If I were going to build or buy a light for a 3x3 or 4x4 tent, how do I determine overkill based on vertical space?

All you rock stars here are like sirens calling. What are the varying scenarios where you would apply different lighting schemes?
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
dark76 said:
Your comment begs a question I've been thinking about for awhile, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

I've been enraptured by all the shiny objects that are hot topics in sundry discussions of late: DIY and Commercial COB lamps. Having been growing with a junky LED circa 2009-2010 in a ... shudder... cabinet (46 x 30 x 78), I have no hope of devoting an entire room to growing, with lights hanging from the ceiling in more of a greenhouse set up.

So, where are these cutting edge lights applicable? Rooms only? 6, 7, 8, or 9 ft height? Gorilla Grow with extensions but no Secret Jardin at 5 ft?

Which bulbs should we look for when trying to minimize unnecessary heat while growing in non-industrial spaces while growing various strains (Tall Sativa to shorter Indica) in various styles (LST & SCROG to untrimmed 1970's style bushes--- ok, trees. But bushes matches the 1970s porn metaphor better)?

If I were going to build or buy a light for a 3x3 or 4x4 tent, how do I determine overkill based on vertical space?

All you rock stars here are like sirens calling. What are the varying scenarios where you would apply different lighting schemes?
Click to expand...
Most emitters that people use for DIY are wide angle (115-130°) letting you not concern yourself as much with vertical space, but you want to direct your attention to not installing COBs or emitters to close to the edge of your space and not waste light/electricity. Also, it'd be worth measuring the intensity at whatever current your driving them (individually) so you know how far to space them to give you the numbers you want. (I think I just got lucky after hearing GGs numbers off a single CXA AB @1400ma and 5" away)
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
"Breaking news, Spectrum King converts to COB"

Kidding, but likely predicting the future ;)

I don't believe that those 1.8gpw numbers are genuine/accurate (or maybe Im just jealous ;). Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. They measure PAR directly in the center of the 90 degree reflector and it reads ~550 from 24". Half the light from the DE Gavita is on the wall, 5 feet above the plant.

I would be willing to examine the lamp though, check actual power draw, emitter quality, temp droop etc. Maybe I should contact them and see if they will submit a sample. Have you checked out their lamps in any detail GG?


Here is a screenshot of their spectrum, looks like a neutral white, nothing wrong with that but intensity and spread is what I am curious about.
View attachment 3354078
Click to expand...
I have seen it in person at every show. And measured it every time. Regardless of my feelings and opinions...the numbers also show the light is nothing close to what it thinks it is.
I have a friend who bought one a little bit ago. I finally got the footprint from her. It's the 400w model with the 90* reflector.
IMG_5018.jpg

I actually thought it was a little more intense when I measure it. Probably was the 60* at the shows.
 
sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all of the info, but it gets confusing.. COB, angle, watts,drivers, lumens, PAR, color etc...

I am comfortable with lumens per foot using CFL and HPS. I know that as long as I am not burning my tops that the height is fine.

How does this all translate to LED? To keep it simple, can you estimate how many watts of LED should I have per sqft of grow space?

I was at Home Depot. Phillips makes some cool bulbs. I have not seen these before. The wheels started turning.

These would make for some really efficient side lighting judging by the shape....
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-SlimStyle-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-LED-Light-Bulb-4-Pack-433227/204780591

I thought that these were really cool also.. Would you take the lens off of these? I wonder what the angle is..
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-SlimStyle-65W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-Dimmable-BR30-LED-Light-Bulb-452417/205484721

They don't provide that many lumens though and maybe I am stuck in the dark ages, but I don't see how they provide enough light.

I can't allow myself to spend a lot more money experimenting. I have boxes of unused grow equipment :) Taking this into consideration am I better off just buying the Area 51?
 
sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
Yes, that's what I'm using. I think they're $3 less at Home Depot.

Here's a plant I'm flowering under 5 spots, 2 floods and 7 9.5w "lightbulbs" for sidelight. The plant is larger than I expected. It fills about 3x3. So, it's getting about 19w/sq ft which is low. I wanted to do 30. But, as you can see, it's flowering decently. I took these pictures a couple hours ago:

You've probably seen the link to my writeup about this kind of lighting. That may give you some ideas about how to mount/position/aim lights like this. If you have questions about how to do it, let me know.

The nice thing about these lights is: If you decide to use a fixture at a later date, you still have these bulbs to use to supplement when you have a plant that's larger than expected (or, to use in an emergency when the fixture fails).
Click to expand...
Do my eyes deceive me or is that a 3 ft tall happy plant in a 1 gallon pot? Maybe I don't need to switch to 5 gallon pots.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
sunny747 said:
How does this all translate to LED? To keep it simple, can you estimate how many watts of LED should I have per sqft of grow space?
Click to expand...
If you're lighting a shorter plant, I'd say 30-35w/sq ft. If it's efficient LED you could be on the low side. If a Chinese import epi-whatever, the high side.

The RW-75 might work in a 5' tall space. I just think you can conserve some vertical space with a more diffuse (white backboard) top light. But, that doesn't leave many good options because all the white backboard lights are inefficient Chinese epi-whatever lights.

Even if you use the RW you'll need a little LED sidelighting to get to 30w/sq ft.

I don't have an opinion about Phillips LED bulbs at Home Depot. In Captain's thread where he grew with Crees there was some discussion about them. I don't know how they compare.

The plant in the photo is in a #3 container. I think people call it a 3gal, but it physically holds 2.5 gals.
 
sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
If you're lighting a shorter plant, I'd say 30-35w/sq ft. If it's efficient LED you could be on the low side. If a Chinese import epi-whatever, the high side.

The RW-75 might work in a 5' tall space. I just think you can conserve some vertical space with a more diffuse (white backboard) top light. But, that doesn't leave many good options because all the white backboard lights are inefficient Chinese epi-whatever lights.

Even if you use the RW you'll need a little LED sidelighting to get to 30w/sq ft.

I don't have an opinion about Phillips LED bulbs at Home Depot. In Captain's thread where he grew with Crees there was some discussion about them. I don't know how they compare.

The plant in the photo is in a #3 container. I think people call it a 3gal, but it physically holds 2.5 gals.
Click to expand...
Kool.. Thanks.. That gives me a target.. 30-35 watts per sqft. I'll see if I can find a 6ft tent. I normally make my own tents out of pvc and panda, but without zippers it's just too hard to get a good seal. Nothing like trying to go to sleep with a vortex fan running and obnoxious yellow or blue light piercing your eye lids :) :)
 
sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
sunny747 said:
Looking at Apllo LEDs...Is this a total piece of crap?
Click to expand...
They're epi-whatever. You could do worse buying the same thing at a huge markup (Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, GrowBlu, BlackDog). You'll need about 45w/sq ft. If you're going to buy a disposable and inefficient light, at least you won't pay a fortune for it.

If I were going to buy an inexpensive light I'd get either MarsHydro/TopLED or Vipar (eBay). The former because they have a public support forum at 420mag. Should be a better chance of having problems fixed if the community has visibility. The latter because quite a few experienced growers say it has the dubious distinction of being the best of the worst.

Depending on the height of your space, pay attention to whether it's 3w or 5w, mounted in reflectors or on a white backboard. If you get something that's 5w and in reflectors that may be too intense for a short space. (May require more height that could be used for growth.).
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Yes according to their test those lamps yielded 1.8 gpw with the Blue Dream clone while the 1000W HPS yielded .8gpw. The tests seemed legit and he seems like a nice guy, but as I said outrageous claims and with no impressive spec sheet data to back it up (Cree XBD 4000K low bin) Might not be a bad lamp for a 2X2 or 3X3 but there are cheaper better options.

If the test was 100% genuine, then imagine the gpw potential of a high efficiency LED.
 
Last edited:
S

Snapper

Well-Known Member
Would any of the Vero range be good for a tiny grow in a PC case? I was thinking 5 or 6 Vero 13 could work or perhaps a combination of Vero 18 and Vero 13. Any suggestions? I was thinking of going with something like 5xVero 13 4000k but I'm not sure if I could power them with only one or two drivers.
 
sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
Do the 5 watt chips create a very intense light that needs to be positioned higher over the canopy? What happens when the light is too close? Does it burn the leaves in a way?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
sunny747 said:
Do the 5 watt chips create a very intense light that needs to be positioned higher over the canopy? What happens when the light is too close? Does it burn the leaves in a way?
Click to expand...
More lumens from fewer sources = higher intensity. What happens is bleaching. Leaves will turn pale, appearing to be N or mg def, but only on the top. The top growth of buds can turn white. (I've only had that once. But, I've had bleached leaves.).

If you ever have one of each, you can use a light (lux) meter app on your smartphone to see the difference of intensity. I think it's reflectors which make a bigger difference. 5w mounted on white backboard compared to 3w probably isn't that great. But, I don't have a 5w to compare. But, I have 3w on white backboard and 3w in reflectors and the difference is large.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
The tests seemed legit and he seems like a nice guy, but as I said outrageous claims and with no impressive spec sheet data to back it up (Cree XBD 4000K low bin) Might not be a bad lamp for a 2X2 or 3X3 but there are cheaper better options..
Click to expand...
This still seems strange to me. He must've deliberately falsified the side-by-side grow. But, if he's that sort of person why would he play up Cree and efficiency? Scammers simply rebrand a Chinese epi-whatever light and sell it for 3-4x more (Lush, Kind, Blackdog, Growblu, Hydrogrowled.). That would have been the natural path for him.

The way he emhasizes Cree and efficiency, it seems like he'd logically gravitate toward more efficient designs like COB, etc. His seeming zeal for distinguishing himself in that space, seems he could be a big player that way.

He seems like a scammer. But, there's a much more established way to sell scammy lights. So, I still don't understand this guy. Hopefully he'll continue trying to distinguish himself as selling efficient lights.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
True, 10 seconds reviewing a CXA data sheet it would become clear that it is more efficient and cheaper. But, better to be selling XBDs than generics I spose.

Most of you guys know this but Vero29 would be more appropriate for a big commercial lamp than CXA because you could really crank the output without increasing the cost too much and still outgun the HPS.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top