IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

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x7vigger

x7vigger

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Quality LED lights don't put out as much heat as other light sources but there still is some heat from it and some from the devices driver. The newer CREE bulbs put out less heat than the older ones like I have but again there is still heat. DIY COBs are good for heat problems since you can run them under spec and still get good growth out of them. It helps to know what size of a grow you have but LEDs do very well vegging, especially with some extra blue in them. You don't need as much electricity to veg with LED, especially when your spectrum has a bit of blue in it. Here LEDs can really cut your wattage and heat. Flowering wise no problem either, just remember cheaper and poorly designed panels put out quite a bit of heat.

I didn't understand the question 100% but I hope that helps. Good Luck!
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My grow room is 4x4x6
 
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turbo dog head

New Member
DonPetro said:
Looking at the C3x3 675w Vipar unit. They say they use top-bin LEDs but don't mention the make. They use the 5w diodes. You seem to know your stuff, can you tell me what "top-bin" means and can they still be shit depending maker?
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PetFlora said:
Your prejudice is showing, and maybe jealousy too

See GreenGenes comments on them after meeting Nick at the show
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PetFlora said:
Your prejudice is showing, and maybe jealousy too

See GreenGenes comments on them after meeting Nick at the show
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turbo dog head

New Member
PetFlora said:
epic, why don't you go to their site for the answers you seek?

IMO, if they thought heat would be a problem they would have designed it differently

That a simple tweak like incorporating a fan instead a bunch of crappy and noisy computer fans that will likely fail long before the leds, ala most panels, to gain even BETTER PAR is a no-brainer to me

The Corvette has several models, each more hp than the base model. Would you say the base model is a poor design?
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How many led panels have you got? You seem to know everything about every panel. If I was you, I wouldn't bother growing as you clearly have enough money to just buy weed.
 
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turbo dog head

New Member
Right. Im gonna sacrifice a grow. Fuck the hps off and use a vipar c600. it's not 600w. It draws about half that. Plus some led panel that I dont know the name of. Its only blue and red spectrum i bought off someone, 144 leds drawing 1.8w each. So in total about 600w. Gonna veg for 2 weeks then flower in the same 4'x4'x6' tent. As funny as it is reading these threads, certain people on here talk so much shit, i couldn'tt make my mind up, so i just bought a panel randomly. I dont post on here regularly but i will give you the results when its finished. The reason for not having a journal is because i masturbate a lot or im smashing the missus, so i dont have the time, but im a bit sore at the moment hence the time i have on my hands to post on here.

Peace out and love to you all.
 
maddmattmurdock

maddmattmurdock

Member
I need a little help.I came across five LPC-35-1050 for free and it is time to start getting parts. I would like to build a supplement flower light. I'm just learning about leds so be nice. Ok so if I understand leds, one driver could has 31.5 watts and 30volts at 1050ma.

http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-2700K-Warm-White-3-Watt-LEDs-Luxeon-ES-2700K.htm

The leds above at 3w with 2.5vf at 1000ma. First off am I even in the ballpark, I'm thinking one driver could run 8 of the above mentioned leds on stars. 8x3w= 24 watts + 6(=20% loss) watts = 30 watts. The Vf is what gets me. The leds say they have 2.5vf so 8 x2.5=22, so with volts droop and everything else I should be able to run 8, did I fail or pass? Can some one explain Vf.
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Let's just say Vf, or foward voltage,is either the typical voltage the LED will use or the maximum voltage it will use in a circuit. The driver you want is one that will supply at least the maximum forward voltage of your circuit. Let's say you want to run 10 of them in a circuit. Now you don't want to run those Philips at anything over 900mA and even that isn't too good an idea, so in your case, in a constant current situation in other words,the driver you would want is a 900mA constant current driver, supplying a minimum 25 volts, (2.5 vf x 10 LEDs), and that it will be able to supply the wattage needed to run the circuit, so at least, 22.5 watts, (.9 Amps x 25 volts) or say 23 watts. Now the closer your circuits are to the driver's maximum wattage or the minimum voltage the circuit needs to run, the more stressful for the driver and the more heat the driver produces, so in this case we want something around 30 watts. It's really pretty simple actually, just doesn't make sense at first :). The LEDs take the voltage they need, so make sure the driver supplies them with the maximum they will draw. Then you just have to make sure the amperage isn't greater than the individual's LED maximum amperage and then the driver will be able to supply the watts needed from V x A.

Did that help? And someone check my math :). Please.
 
TheBeesKnees

TheBeesKnees

Well-Known Member
Yoo just saw this thread... I can't decide what LEDS I should get in a 5x5 space. Is two Mars 2 1200w too much? they each draw about 550 actual watts. Help is appreciated, I am a newbie.
The height of the grow tent is a little over 7 feet.
 
maddmattmurdock

maddmattmurdock

Member
FranJan said:
Let's just say Vf, or foward voltage,is either the typical voltage the LED will use or the maximum voltage it will use in a circuit. The driver you want is one that will supply at least the maximum forward voltage of your circuit. Let's say you want to run 10 of them in a circuit. Now you don't want to run those Philips at anything over 900mA and even that isn't too good an idea, so in your case, in a constant current situation in other words,the driver you would want is a 900mA constant current driver, supplying a minimum 25 volts, (2.5 vf x 10 LEDs), and that it will be able to supply the wattage needed to run the circuit, so at least, 22.5 watts, (.9 Amps x 25 volts) or say 23 watts. Now the closer your circuits are to the driver's maximum wattage or the minimum voltage the circuit needs to run, the more stressful for the driver and the more heat the driver produces, so in this case we want something around 30 watts. It's really pretty
simple actually, just doesn't make sense at first :). The LEDs take the voltage they need, so make sure the driver supplies them with the maximum they will draw. Then you just have to make sure the amperage isn't greater than the individual's LED maximum amperage and then the driver will be able to supply the watts needed from V x A.

Did that help? And someone check my math :). Please.
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The Vf makes a lot more sense.The VF will help determine how many can be run on a string? So if I was looking for leds for those free drives to run, I would be looking for something in the 1amp and with a cumulative VF of no more than 25 volts?
 
chandi

chandi

Active Member
Well a little confused here.
been researching for a while now and it seems this is a well known way to go.

these lights Cree 3070:http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CXA3070-0000-000N00Z230F/CXA3070-0000-000N00Z230F-ND/4386666

this power supply meanwell htg: http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-185h-c-power-supply.html

but then there's the driver?:
http://www.ledsupply.com/1000ma-constant-current-led-drivers

Or is the driver included in the meanwell htg,linked above?
So i could power 3 of the 3070s with the 185w power source?
ack!! scrolled through so many pages!!
Could anyone give me a reference to a guide on the driver/power supply, etc?
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
chandi said:
Well a little confused here.
been researching for a while now and it seems this is a well known way to go.

these lights Cree 3070:http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CXA3070-0000-000N00Z230F/CXA3070-0000-000N00Z230F-ND/4386666

this power supply meanwell htg: http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-185h-c-power-supply.html

but then there's the driver?:
http://www.ledsupply.com/1000ma-constant-current-led-drivers

Or is the driver included in the meanwell htg,linked above?
So i could power 3 of the 3070s with the 185w power source?
ack!! scrolled through so many pages!!
Could anyone give me a reference to a guide on the driver/power supply, etc?
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http://rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/
http://rollitup.org/t/diy-led-cree-cxa3070.789575/

Which driver? the 1.4A version?

Yes, you could run 3 on a 1.4 amp version.

 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
maddmattmurdock said:
The Vf makes a lot more sense.The VF will help determine how many can be run on a string?
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The string determines the voltage. Just add up your Vfs of each LED and that gives your minimum voltage needed to run the string.
maddmattmurdock said:
So if I was looking for leds for those free drives to run, I would be looking for something in the 1amp and with a cumulative VF of no more than 25 volts?
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So those drivers, LPC-35-1050, would work with any LEDs that run over 1.050 amps and that the string's cumulative Vf isn't more than 30 volts.
 
FranJan

FranJan

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TheBeesKnees said:
Yoo just saw this thread... I can't decide what LEDS I should get in a 5x5 space. Is two Mars 2 1200w too much? they each draw about 550 actual watts. Help is appreciated, I am a newbie.
The height of the grow tent is a little over 7 feet.
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Do you have a link to the panels you're talking about? Offhand I don't think that will be enough because Chinese panels work best in smaller grow situations. How tall are you going to grow your plants? Too tall and you'll be wasting your time since the PAR levels will be too low for proper growth on the lower part of the plant. Scrogging with two of those panels in that area would probably be the best choice. Most LEDs don't grow trees too well. You'll have to add extra lighting to the side for real tall indoor plants or spend $$$ on something like an ApacheTech AT600 to get trees. And adding more Mars panels may not be the best idea either since you'll start to run into heat problems in the grow room. For the most part budget panels make much more heat. Mystery diodes, small heatsinks, 85% efficient drivers and poorly designed panels tend to do that.

Good Luck!
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Do you have a link to the panels you're talking about? Offhand I don't think that will be enough because Chinese panels work best in smaller grow situations. How tall are you going to grow your plants? Too tall and you'll be wasting your time since the PAR levels will be too low for proper growth on the lower part of the plant. Scrogging with two of those panels in that area would probably be the best choice. Most LEDs don't grow trees too well. You'll have to add extra lighting to the side for real tall indoor plants or spend $$$ on something like an ApacheTech AT600 to get trees. And adding more Mars panels may not be the best idea either since you'll start to run into heat problems in the grow room. For the most part budget panels make much more heat. Mystery diodes, small heatsinks, 85% efficient drivers and poorly designed panels tend to do that.

Good Luck!
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Agree..............................................................................good advice on hump day froggy:hump:
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
TheBeesKnees said:
I can't decide what LEDS I should get in a 5x5 space. Is two Mars 2 1200w too much? they each draw about 550 actual watts.
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That's 44w sq ft. That should be about right for using Chinese lights. But, I don't know about the footprint. You'd be better off with four 600w fixtures. Better coverage and when (not if) a light fails, it wouldn't be as catastrophic. You could move the remaining 3 fixtures to limp along better than having only 1 fixture. More realistic to have a spare fixture to fill in, etc.

Have you considered more efficient lights like Area 51? It's more expensive to get into up-front, but over the long run their higher-quality LEDs use less energy to produce more light. And, a lifetime warranty with ability to upgrade your LED modules as Area 51 implements newer LED technology.

If you're going to do 4 fixtures but can't afford all of them as higher-quality lights, you might consider 1 or 2 A51s. They don't have to be all the same fixture. Anyway, with an A51 you need less watts per sq. ft. Maybe 25-30w.
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing folks suggesting area51 with one of the reasons why being ability to upgrade. I know this was an original selling point when the cree models first hit, but fast forward to today with several newer models available, as far as i know area51 owners have not had this option to upgrade their diodes or drivers.

I asked about it 6 months to a year ago and was told it would happen. Still waiting. So just curious, does anyone know something I don't? Has anyone upgraded their sgs model?
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
I asked to upgrade mine and was told that it was pointless since "the SGS is still one of the best panels to date," frankly I don't think it should matter- if the customer wants it you should do what you can to fulfill the needs. I mean Christ it's not like they'd be doin it for free. I think they just didnt want to dick with it. Not to mention they release new series' just about every year (the uncoming panels)- I think the upgrade option is nice, but not used, maybe for a reason, but they DO have their panels designed so they can. Just think they don't want to. (Another reason to keep releasing entirely new panels altogether)
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Fucked up part is I was only inquiring about upgrading the xpe drivers from 550 to 700 (since in one of my previous emails they stated they thought about doing that) how quick of an upgrade would that of been? And still didnt want to do it? Fuck it, I may still do it myself, even though they deterred me from doing that too stating the series voltage may not match up with the driver
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
^^^I doubt that voltage part since it's in series. And A51 is CC right? They don't use IC drivers and up/down drivers in their design, right? Maybe they just can't handle the extra workload required? Every-time CREE comes out with an upgraded or newer model people will just want the latest and greatest, (I want XP-E2s instead of XP-Es! Waaaaaaahhhhhh :) ),so now you're doing upgrades instead of final assemblies and in-house shit. Maybe it's too time consuming for them.

And what LED company is above some creative manipulative marketing in this day and age ;)?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Every-time CREE comes out with an upgraded or newer model people will just want the latest and greatest, (I want XP-E2s instead of XP-Es! Waaaaaaahhhhhh :) ),so now you're doing upgrades instead of final assemblies and in-house shit. Maybe it's too time consuming for them.
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I think that's the most reasonable answer. I can see how there would be a difference of opinion about when a model is due for an upgrade. For the average China-import consumer, being able to upgrade after 4-5 advancements in A51's design would be a huge positive (as well as being able to replace failed modules in the interim). For the more passionate, leading-edge type, they might be disappointed that every past model isn't perfectly tracking the current model.

I recently suggested to Jeff that he implement a blog on his site to communicate more about what's happening, receive reader feedback which could guide future blog posts. After he stopped posting here, it seems like there's a lot less awareness of what's going on. Forums are a huge and sometimes addictive drag on time. I don't fault him for not posting here. But, it would be nice if there was more communication. A blog would be a good way to share thoughts, reply to community concerns (like this upgrade topic) without getting bogged down in a huge conversation.
 
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