HPS vs LED

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Johnny Lawrence

Johnny Lawrence

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Tolerance Break said:
No shit, Ill be damned. I don't see a whole lot of rock wool cube, ebb and flow folk around here
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I clone in 1.5". Move to Delta 10s once the roots pop. They stay in those during veg with a home made Rainbird drip system under 4000k HLGs. They're then moved to a Greentrees Multiflow ebb n flow setup with LECA as the substrate.

I run bacillus amyloliquifacien(sp?) To keep the roots white and healthy. Keeping my roots from clogging shit is one of my problems.
 
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Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
Johnny Lawrence said:
I clone in 1.5". Move to Delta 10s once the roots pop. They stay in those during veg with a home made Rainbord drip system under 4000k HLGs. They're then moved to a Greentrees Multiflow ebb n flow setup with LECA as the substrate.

I run bacillus amyloliquifacien(sp?) To keep the roots white and healthy. Keeping my roots from clogging shit is one of my problems.
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Fuck yeah, I'll have to give the LECA a shot. Bennies when I can keep my Res light tight and a bit cooler. Cheers!
 
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snakedope

Well-Known Member
PopAndSonGrows said:
I dunno, man. You can't reinvent the wheel, I think HID lighting has hit a wall in terms of what it's capable of. Sure, they could make them a percentage point more efficient, but they will NEVER be able to focus all the photons in one single direction the way LED lights do. There's always going to be photon loss with HID
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Photons are never "lost" until they hit something that's absorbing them, the strength of the wave of light (as light is defined by a wave and it's length) after it left the source, is distance related
When you put your light source further away the light waves are still there but the wave is having more difficulty reaching the plants through the atmosphere in the correct strength to saturate it to full efficiency.

We discussed it at length here and in icmag, got banned for it as LED secrets are like plotonium, you can't touch it without having someone dying haha

But like the gentleman above me said, it's comparing oranges to apples, they both have their distinctive purpose, hps will never veg like LEDs, too hard to beat the amount of light and spread and incident angles etc that LEDs have just because if their design and watt limits
HID or in short, mini sun lamps, as they share the same principles as the sun, can't be beat in resin production, which is what your after when flowering cannabis plants.

Screenshot_2023-07-22-16-33-16-487_com.miui.gallery.jpg
Pic by UnkownProphet, not my bud or grow.

You want to reach this level of trichome and bud integrity and size, anything else your wasting your time.
 
B

Bud man 43

Well-Known Member
HPS looses spectrum as the bulb ages- 6 months to 1 year of use and you will need to install new bulbs. It will still work but no comparison to the LED spectrum longevity.
I like full spectrum LED with UV and IR supplements
 
PopAndSonGrows

PopAndSonGrows

Well-Known Member
snakedope said:
Photons are never "lost" until they hit something that's absorbing them, the strength of the wave of light (as light is defined by a wave and it's length) after it left the source, is distance related
When you put your light source further away the light waves are still there but the wave is having more difficulty reaching the plants through the atmosphere in the correct strength to saturate it to full efficiency.

We discussed it at length here and in icmag, got banned for it as LED secrets are like plotonium, you can't touch it without having someone dying haha

But like the gentleman above me said, it's comparing oranges to apples, they both have their distinctive purpose, hps will never veg like LEDs, too hard to beat the amount of light and spread and incident angles etc that LEDs have just because if their design and watt limits
HID or in short, mini sun lamps, as they share the same principles as the sun, can't be beat in resin production, which is what your after when flowering cannabis plants.

View attachment 5310883
Pic by UnkownProphet, not my bud or grow.

You want to reach this level of trichome and bud integrity and size, anything else your wasting your time.
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HID light bulbs light in ALL directions, photons are lost on the back reflector right away. And I've grown frostier buds than that under LED.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
manfredo said:
Agreed....I do hope my new LED outperforms the HPS, but so far not seeing it....I'm only in the 2nd week of flower though!

I have 2 more LED's being delivered this afternoon, so I'm not against them....Just not convinced, yet, they are all that much better.
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Your problem may be that you aren't optimizing the conditions for LED; plants like to be in the mid 80s rather than the 70s.
 
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snakedope

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why high kwh prices would kill the HID market, we know already that you need almost equivalent watts in LEDs as in HIDs to reach the same saturation and light strength, it's not like your replacing 1k hps with 250w led panels, and if you do you have no clue what you are doing.
And even if you replaced a 1k with let's say a 600w led panel, you still need in most cases to throw a heater in there for half year... A job that HIDs would do without.
Sure in summer the heat is a damn problem, but I rather run my 800w ac then run 2000w + heaters

ttystikk said:
Your problem may be that you aren't optimizing the conditions for LED; plants like to be in the mid 80s rather than the 70s.
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They love being in the mid 80 no matter the light source, science told us that long ago, with high humidity you can go even higher and still have amazing results
I tried going to higher temps under my panels, got to 32c, and the frost did seem better in comparison to my other led tent, that was in the 27-29c zone, but I don't attribute it to being better cuz of LEDs, it's better cuz at 32c all processes are moving at a higher rate.

PopAndSonGrows said:
HID light bulbs light in ALL directions, photons are lost on the back reflector right away. And I've grown frostier buds than that under LED.
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You really just said that ?
Frost means nothing my friend
Let's search together how many people grow frost and meh smoke
And again, photons are not lost until they are absorped, a reflector won't absorp them as he reflects 98+% of them.
You talk about the light that bounces beyond the reflector limits and goes to the middle portion of your tent walls ? Well that's a very small % of the light, which also some of it gets reflected by the walls to any direction.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
In MY humble experience, (and being an old head), I believe that LED puts out much more visible light....but it doesn't put out any heat. I believe the plants respond to a light source that is also the heat source. I have gotten great results using both types of lights, but I always have a sense that the plants like it when the heat and the light are coming from the same source....above the plants. The only type of lighting that I have not tried is a CMH but from what I've heard, growers are getting the best of both worlds from them. In the meantime, my next grow will be under my new HLG LED fixture, but I'm keeping my eye peeled for a nice CMH setup.
 
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snakedope

Well-Known Member
CMH are a waste of money/time/size and efficiency wise, weed loves light, a lot of it, when choosing HIDs go for hps always.
People seem to forgot what 99% of growers had under their belt in the HID glory days
The reviews on alternate spectrum over higher intensity are marginal at best, so why get less light for the same watt ?

I love the fact that LEDs are getting more gpw but people need to understand that's just the way they are designed, spread.
If the industry made the same with HIDs who knows what the outcome might be

HippieFarmer420 said:
I'm not a scientist, I am just an old stoner hippy, but I've ran 400w leds beside 600w hps, when it came to the end, the 400w led was the final choice..

No plans to go back to hid lights again.
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Please specify the reasons and pros and cons you experienced, that would be a good input for this debate
 
thumper60

thumper60

Well-Known Member
snakedope said:
I don't understand why high kwh prices would kill the HID market, we know already that you need almost equivalent watts in LEDs as in HIDs to reach the same saturation and light strength, it's not like your replacing 1k hps with 250w led panels, and if you do you have no clue what you are doing.
And even if you replaced a 1k with let's say a 600w led panel, you still need in most cases to throw a heater in there for half year... A job that HIDs would do without.
Sure in summer the heat is a damn problem, but I rather run my 800w ac then run 2000w + heaters



They love being in the mid 80 no matter the light source, science told us that long ago, with high humidity you can go even higher and still have amazing results
I tried going to higher temps under my panels, got to 32c, and the frost did seem better in comparison to my other led tent, that was in the 27-29c zone, but I don't attribute it to being better cuz of LEDs, it's better cuz at 32c all processes are moving at a higher rate.



You really just said that ?
Frost means nothing my friend
Let's search together how many people grow frost and meh smoke
And again, photons are not lost until they are absorped, a reflector won't absorp them as he reflects 98+% of them.
You talk about the light that bounces beyond the reflector limits and goes to the middle portion of your tent walls ? Well that's a very small % of the light, which also some of it gets reflected by the walls to any direction.
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High KWHs combined with low market prices have killed the hps growing in my area I pay over 30 cents per kwh. Every one i know has gone from running 1000 watts hps in 5x5s to running 700 watts of led Thats a 30% reduction on lighting cost plus 100s on changing out bulbs plus iam getting easy 20% more on dry yeild after running hps 30 plus yrs never looking back.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
If I had the ability to design a lighting "system" for growing plants, then I would design it so that the lights come up the way the Sun does. i.e., gradually, and also with a corresponding spectral shift from deep blue, to blue/white, to full spectrum (high noon) and then ending the "day" with a more red/orange sunset color. I would also try and design it so that the corresponding temperatures would be shifted -meaning that the "morning" light would be cast along with a cooler temperature. Then, as the "day" went on, the temperatures would rise. At the end of the "day" and with the lights off, the temps would remain a bit warm for awhile and then eventually cool back down....until the cycle would repeat itself. There are probably already growers who apply this idea, but I have yet to try it, myself. Do I think it would make a big difference? No, not really. I think plants will grow well under many conditions. They are pretty adaptable....But, as a grower, I get enjoyment from trying to "play God" (so-to-speak)...heh heh ;)
 
MintyDreadlocks

MintyDreadlocks

Well-Known Member
LED. HPS doesn't stand a chance anymore. Cheap and old tech. Gets the job done but it's still cheap. If I'm growing alien weed I'm going to use 'alien' tech to do it seems like a no brainer.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
snakedope said:
CMH are a waste of money/time/size and efficiency wise, weed loves light, a lot of it, when choosing HIDs go for hps always.
People seem to forgot what 99% of growers had under their belt in the HID glory days
The reviews on alternate spectrum over higher intensity are marginal at best, so why get less light for the same watt ?

I love the fact that LEDs are getting more gpw but people need to understand that's just the way they are designed, spread.
If the industry made the same with HIDs who knows what the outcome might be



Please specify the reasons and pros and cons you experienced, that would be a good input for this debate
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Pretty strong statement to say they are a waste when there are so many documented successful grows that use them. You're basically focusing your preferences on yield. GPW -that's more of an industrial point of view. As a small-time grower, I don't need to concern myself with that. I grow a few plants each run. The yield has MUCH more to do with the strain than it does with which kind of lights a grower uses. If an LED -grown plant produces ~6 grams more than the same plant grown under HPS....so what? That's only a big deal if you're growing thousands of plants of the same strain. Many times, people apply an industrial mindset to a tent grow. It's just not the same thing. GPW doesn't really mean anything -especially if you're running a variety of strains each grow.

Also, keep in mind that even small LED grows rely on adding an inefficient heater to the space -which basically negates the efficiency factor of the LED light. You're "robbing Peter to pay Paul" so-to-speak. The advantage of HPS bulbs (like CMH) already have the built-in inefficiency that produces the heat...AND they also emit a good amount of UV, too.
 
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snakedope

Well-Known Member
thumper60 said:
High KWHs combined with low market prices have killed the hps growing in my area I pay over 30 cents per kwh. Every one i know has gone from running 1000 watts hps in 5x5s to running 700 watts of led Thats a 30% reduction on lighting cost plus 100s on changing out bulbs plus iam getting easy 20% more on dry yeild after running hps 30 plus yrs never looking back.
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Ever wonder why the market prices are so low ?
Cuz growers opted to save electricity and produce tons of product that no one wants
Weird huh
100s on bulbs ? I buy 3 1k bulbs for 120 usd and that should last me a solid 2-3 years, cheap.

I agree on the 30% reduction, and better gpw figures, but that also come with a price of heaters, lower quality product, lower price at sell lower demend overall etc

MintyDreadlocks said:
LED. HPS doesn't stand a chance anymore. Cheap and old tech. Gets the job done but it's still cheap. If I'm growing alien weed I'm going to use 'alien' tech to do it seems like a no brainer.
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Cheap is not a claim man... Old also, alien tech... These are all terms without anything behind them..
What are you trying to say ?
Or let barney say it instead, New is always better ?
 
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