How to Calculate NPK ratio!

jj2012

Member
[Qknow OTE="Uncle Ben, post: 7747560, member: 46130"]You can make this as difficult and confusing as you want, which is the Advanced Shysters MO. It's never enough, or you can go down to Walmart and pick up a Vigoro 24-8-18 for veg and a 1-3-2 for bloom and be done with it. You may need a tad of Mg in those.

To make things easier I advise folks to follow a 3-1-2 ratio to support good foliage output and a 1-3-2 to support good bloom. Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro and their bloom food fit that bill, all in one bottle, not 4.

Bud production depends on how healthy and massive the foliage is maintained until harvest. Learn to read your plants and get off the AN charts and advice. In the real world, it usually doesn't work. May I suggest you get educated on plant nutrition and what makes a plant tick?

Let's say you have a teaspoon each of a 9-3-6 and 1-3-2. If you added them together to get 2 teaspoons then divide by 2 (parts), you have a NPK value of 5-3-4, which would make a great all around food from start to finish at a general rate of 1 tsp/gallon.

Tio[/QUOTE]
I know this thread is old but I am new. So if I had a three part with 2-0-0, 1-3-4, and 1-0-4 at 1 ml of each my npk would be 1.3-1-2.6 correct? How would I figure that out for 37 ml of each because I used the same process and got .036-.027-.072. Basically Im using 37 ml of each with five gallons of water. Ppm going down, pH going up but starting to get the claw so I believe the npk is off.
 

jj2012

Member
I am trying to figure out how to turn 2-0-0, 1-3-4, and 1-0-4 into a 3-1-2 ratio. If anyone could show me that process I would be grateful.
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Alright, so, you seem to misunderstand ratios with chemical concentration.

Bear with me for a second, because this will all make sense in a bit.

First off, all fertilizers in the US are sold on a weight/weight% basis. This means a fertilizer that has a 2-1-2 on the bottle is 2% total nitrogen, 1% phosphate as P2O5, and 2% potassium as K2O, by weight. Or right about that. Since the number on the bottle is a guaranteed minimum, you could be off by a few tenths of a percent.

Concentrations of elements in an aqueous solution, water, are measured in weight/volume. The concentrations that read as PPM, parts per million, are equal to a measurement of mg/L. So, if I add 100 mg/L of a 2-1-2 fertilizer, I have now has a solution that is 2 ppm total nitrogen, 1 ppm phosphate as P2O5, and 2 ppm potassium as K2O. Don't forget this, 1 mg/L = 1 ppm. I use them interchangeably and often switch back and forth, depending on context.

Lets now consider a calmag blend. Lets say it has a 3:3:1 ratio of N:Ca:Mg. That's all well and good. But it doesn't tell us anything about the weight/weight% of the fertilizer. If it says it is 3% N, 3% Ca, and 1% Mg on the bottle, then it's useful information. In which case, adding 100mg/L, which is 100ppm, of this fertilizer will give you a solution that is 3 ppm N, 3 ppm Ca, and 1 ppm Mg.

Now, let us consider a common calcium nitrate fertilizer. It is 15.5% total N and 19% Ca. So, if I add 100 mg/L of this calcium nitrate fertilizer, I will have a feed solution that is 15.5 ppm total N and 19 ppm Ca.

If I want 100 ppm of Ca, I need to add more of this fertilizer. Specifically, I need to add 526 mg/L of it, that is (100/19)*100=526.
100 mg/L is how much fertilizer I added earlier, 19 ppm is how much Calcium I got, and 100 ppm is my new Calcium Target.

This will also mean I have 81.5 ppm total N. 526 mg/L of a fertilizer that is 15.5% Nitrogen. 526*0.155 = 81.5.

Now, I want to add magnesium to this. I chose a magnesium nitrate fertilizer. It is 11% total N and 9.6% Mg. To reach my 3:1 ratio of Ca to Mg, I need 33 ppm Mg in solution, that is, 1/3 of 100 ppm.

To get 33 ppm Mg, I need to add 344 mg/L of this magnesium nitrate fertilizer. This means I will also be adding 37.8 ppm of N to the solution. Bringing the total N concentration to 118.3 ppm.

So, a blend of the following:
526 mg/L (2.0 g/gal) of calcium nitrate
344 mg/L (1.33g/gal) of magnesium nitrate

will create a solution with the following concentration:
118.3 ppm N
100 ppm Ca
33 ppm Mg

This is a solution with a 3.5:3:1 N:Ca:Mg ratio.

Now lets use another example, 500 ppm of a 2-1-2 will give you 10 ppm N, 5 ppm P2O5, and 10 ppm K2O.

Quick aside, something you probably just noticed was my use of P2O5 in place of phosphorus and K2O in place of potassium. This is important because that is what those numbers on the bottle actually stand for.

To convert to a real concentration of phosphorus from P2O5, multiple the P2O5 concentration by 0.436 and you will get your true phosphorus concentration.

To convert to a real concentration of potassium, multiple the K2O numbers by 0.83 and you will get your true potassium concentration.


With that out the way, lets clarify what 100 ppm of a liquid fertilizer really is. Hint: It is NOT 100mL/L.

Check on the bottle and you should see a weight somewhere. If you've got 1 gallon, it will be around 9-13 lbs. Divide that number by 8.34, the density of pure water, to get your specific gravity, SG. Now, we need to do some math to determine how much volume we need to add that will equal 100 ppm of this liquid fertilizer.

Lets assume your fertilizer weighs 10.4 lbs. That's 10.4/8.34 = 1.247 = SG.

Alright, well, now I want to add 100 ppm of that fertilizer. How much volume is it to do that?

100 ppm means to add 100 mg/L. If it were just water, it would be easy as water has a mass of just about 1 g/ml. But it's not. So, we need to do a little extra.

100 mg of this fertilizer with an SG of 1.247. 100mg = 0.1g. It is important that we convert to grams instead of milligrams right here because we want a value in mL instead of uL.

0.1g/1.247SG = 0.080.

We need to add 0.080mL/L to get 100 ppm of this liquid fertilizer, and that will give us 2 ppm N, 1 ppm P2O5, and 2 ppm K2O.

Now, if you want 200 ppm of N, you will need to add 10,000 ppm of this liquid fertilizer. 10,000 ppm of this fertilizer is 8mL/L. 8mL/L = 30.3mL/gallon.

Your final solution will then be the following
200 ppm total N
43.6 ppm P (100 ppm P2O5)
166 ppm K (200 ppm K2O)

Hopefully, you understand now. Feel free to ask any questions if you have them.
 

jj2012

Member
I got some of it but I'm still missing something. I have a 1-3-4 solution that weighs 2.4 lbs the SG would be .288. So .347 ml/l would give me 100ppm with 1ppm-n, 3ppm-p, and 2ppm-k correct so far? And if I wanted 200 ppm of n I would need 20,000 ppm of solution? How did you turn 10,000 into 8ml/l. I divided 10,000 by 100 then multiplied by .08 and got 8 but when I tried that on mine I came up with 69 and that doesn't seem right. That was some heavy shit you just laid on me. I seriously just sat here since you posted with pen and paper running numbers. Im giving my brain a break for tonight but will definitely be back to this. Thank you for that. I really appreciate your time.
 

jj2012

Member
One more question I have before I forget is if the ppm of yours is 10000 at 30ml/gal what would that show up as on a TDs. I'm asking because I have 37ml/gallon of each base and the ppm came to 1,200.
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
One more question I have before I forget is if the ppm of yours is 10000 at 30ml/gal what would that show up as on a TDs. I'm asking because I have 37ml/gallon of each base and the ppm came to 1,200.
I'm writing up a bunch of other stuff, but to quickly answer this one: The PPM reading on a meter that reads it is a measurement based on electrical conductivity(EC), which correlated to Total Dissolved Solids. TDS is measured in PPM. So, it's a measurement of total ions in solution, essentially. Those liquid fertilizer blends are not 100% fertilizer. They are mostly water. While you're adding 10,000ppm of that liquid fertilizer blend, 80 or 90% of it will just be water. So it won't count towards a reading on an EC meter.
 

jj2012

Member
I assumed that was the reason but i don't like assuming cause I can't afford to assume wrong. I'm starting to see the appeal of making your own nutrients.
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
I got some of it but I'm still missing something. I have a 1-3-4 solution that weighs 2.4 lbs the SG would be .288. So .347 ml/l would give me 100ppm with 1ppm-n, 3ppm-p, and 2ppm-k correct so far? And if I wanted 200 ppm of n I would need 20,000 ppm of solution? How did you turn 10,000 into 8ml/l. I divided 10,000 by 100 then multiplied by .08 and got 8 but when I tried that on mine I came up with 69 and that doesn't seem right. That was some heavy shit you just laid on me. I seriously just sat here since you posted with pen and paper running numbers. Im giving my brain a break for tonight but will definitely be back to this. Thank you for that. I really appreciate your time.

I just realized I may not have been clear on one thing. In regards to Specific Gravity, you have to use the correct units.

You have a liquid that weighs 2.4 lbs. Well, you don't have 1 gallon now do you? So, you have to convert. You probably have 1 quart. Is that right? or is it 1 Liter? You have to convert everything to gallons before dividing by 8.34. That 8.34 number is the density of water in lbs/gallon.

So, my mistake for not being clear on that.

Also, I'm glad I got you thinking. :)

Now, let me try and get this figured out.

You have a 1-3-4 solution. It weighs 2.4 lbs, presumably, a 1 quart? If it is 1L, let me know, it changes because 1L is not the same as 1 quart. Anyway, 1 gallon your solution will weigh 9.6 lbs. This is a specific gravity of 1.15. So, to add 100mg/L(0.1g/L), lets do the math.

0.1/1.15 = 0.087

You need to add 0.087g/L in order to add 100ppm of solution. In doing so means you add 1 ppm Total N, 3 ppm P2O5, and 4 ppm K2O.

Before we go any farther, I want to make a suggestion: Ditch what you're using right now.

You know how I brought up Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Nitrate? So, those along with many other fertilizers are the basis behind what ever liquid blends you have on your shelf at home. And if you want to be precise about what you are feeding your plants, then it is best to use dry, water soluble fertilizers, that are unblended.

So, you want a 3-1-2 ratio of NPK. Awesome. That's a good ratio for vegetative growth. But, again, it doesn't tell you the concentration of NPK in your feeding solution. 300ppm N, 100ppm P2O5, 200ppm K2O is the same ratio as 3ppm N, 1ppm P2O5, and 2ppm K2O. And they are both going to perform wildly different. Basically, that second one isn't going to do shit.

To save you some effort in figuring out what is a good limit, I would start with somewhere around a 200ppm limit on N and adjust everything else to accommodate that. It will be okay to go higher, say, like 300-350ppm in your feeding solution, but lets take small steps here. No need to dive into the deep end right away. We want something that will not kill the plants and also not be so dilute as to perform poorly.

And just before we get started, something I want to bring up. Your plants can handle some pretty varied concentrations of nutrients. So, when you mix a blend, don't worry too much about being truly precise. +/- 10% is okay. So, you'll see me rounding in a lot of cases. It's because it's not necessary to carry 4 or 5 significant figures through these calculations.

Alright, lets do the following, a blend that is about 3-1-2.6, from a ratio standpoint. :
200ppm Total N
66 ppm P2O5 (29 ppm P)
160 ppm K2O (133 ppm K)

We'll also need Calcium and Magnesium.
So, lets do
90ppm Ca
40ppm Mg

I'll get to the micronutrients later.

We're going to use the following fertilizers to achieve this:
Calcium Nitrate (15.5-0-0, 19% Ca, 14.4% N-NO3, 1.1% N-NH4)
Magnesium Nitrate (11-0-0, 9.6% Mg)
Potassium Nitrate (13.7-0-46) 46% K2O = 38% K
Mono Ammonium Phosphate (MAP) (12-61-0) 61% P2O5 = 26.5% P
Ammonium Sulfate (21-0-0, 24% S)

473 mg/L of Calcium Nitrate = 90 ppm Ca, 73 ppm Total N (68 ppm N-NO3, 5 ppm N-NH4)
417 mg/L of Magnesium Nitrate = 40 ppm Mg, 46 ppm Total N (46 ppm N-NO3)
350 mg/L of Potassium Nitrate = 133 ppm K, 48 ppm Total N (48 ppm N-NO3)
109 mg/L of MAP = 29 ppm P, 13 ppm Total N (13 ppm N-NH4)
95 mg/L of Ammonium Sulfate = 23 ppm S, 20 ppm Total N (20 ppm N-NH4)

Add it up:
200 ppm Total N (162 ppm N-NO3, 38 ppm N-NH4)
29 ppm P (66 ppm P2O5)
133 ppm K (160 ppm K2O)
90 ppm Ca
40 ppm Mg
23 ppm S

Sulfur is the one I didn't give a requirement for here, as you'll note. While plants need Sulfur, it's not that important, and they can tolerate relatively high levels of it without it being detrimental. So, I always let sulfur be the wildcard while I make sure I always meet my NPKCaMg requirements.

If you want Potassium, but don't want extra Nitrogen, consider Potassium Sulfate, also called Sulfate of Potash. Also consider Potassium Carbonate and Potassium Silicate. Potassium Silicate is beneficial independently due to the silicon addition.
If you want Potassium, but also want more Phosphorus, consider Mono Potassium Phosphate, MKP. This is a common PK booster.
If you want Magnesium, but don't want extra Nitrogen, consider Magnesium Sulfate, also called Epsom Salt.

Now, coming back around to the micronutrients. I didn't list any requirements. But they are still needed, right? Just find yourself a general purpose Micro mix for hydroponics. Make sure what you feed to the plants is 1-2 ppm Fe, and everything else will fall in place.
 
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jj2012

Member
The nutrients I am running now are from advanced and they have been a nightmare to figure out. I got the 1L/1 quart of the php GMB. I admit I wasn't using them right at first but when I started seeing problems I started digging for answers and found that your not supposed to adjust pH or add calmag so I did what they said and it got worse faster so in desperation I made a mix with kelp, yerba mate and calmag and that plant looked stronger and bigger overnight. Luck I'm sure but I was desperate and advanced blew me off. those are getting trashed the 1-3-4 is the bloom from them. I ordered GH flora trio and can't afford to trash them right away if I spend another cent on this grow my girl is gonna castrate me. I spent quite a bit on improving the environment so right now I have to work with what I have to get my og ghost train safely through flower. I do still want that information though. I want to take this past where most people do and I understand that I am going to have to study the science end so I can better understand what the plant needs and why. So feel free to send me any info you want. If you could point me in the right direction for some serious reading I would appreciate that too. I have spent days searching through opinions, marketing, and myths for science backed info so thanks for cutting to it. Any time your willing to spend on me is genuinely appreciated.
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
The nutrients I am running now are from advanced and they have been a nightmare to figure out. I got the 1L/1 quart of the php GMB. I admit I wasn't using them right at first but when I started seeing problems I started digging for answers and found that your not supposed to adjust pH or add calmag so I did what they said and it got worse faster so in desperation I made a mix with kelp, yerba mate and calmag and that plant looked stronger and bigger overnight. Luck I'm sure but I was desperate and advanced blew me off. those are getting trashed the 1-3-4 is the bloom from them. I ordered GH flora trio and can't afford to trash them right away if I spend another cent on this grow my girl is gonna castrate me. I spent quite a bit on improving the environment so right now I have to work with what I have to get my og ghost train safely through flower. I do still want that information though. I want to take this past where most people do and I understand that I am going to have to study the science end so I can better understand what the plant needs and why. So feel free to send me any info you want. If you could point me in the right direction for some serious reading I would appreciate that too. I have spent days searching through opinions, marketing, and myths for science backed info so thanks for cutting to it. Any time your willing to spend on me is genuinely appreciated.
Here's some info on nutrient deficiencies:
http://extension.arizona.edu/sites/extension.arizona.edu/files/pubs/az1106.pdf
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=456
 

jj2012

Member
After talking with you I started a thread I titled cannabis science and I feel you would bring some useful info to it. I think it has potential to be a very useful thread. Just thought I would invite you and anyone you know that would enjoy the topic. Don't feel obligated just wanted to let you know that your welcome. Have a good one bro.
 

jj2012

Member
Are all those ingredients easy to obtain without too much scrutiny. It would be nice to be able to adjust the ratio for the different stages by myself. Actually I am wrong for asking before I look for myself. I started using GH flora trio and things are looking up. I am going to run them through the formula and see what I can do.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Are all those ingredients easy to obtain without too much scrutiny. It would be nice to be able to adjust the ratio for the different stages by myself. Actually I am wrong for asking before I look for myself. I started using GH flora trio and things are looking up. I am going to run them through the formula and see what I can do.
You may set off a red flag ordering potassium nitrate, but I've never had issues getting it. The other salts don't have any major restrictions. I'm assuming you're in the US.

When I started using DIY nutes, I had GH flora 3 part and replaced the bloom bottle with monopotassium phosphate and magnesium sulfate. That worked so I replaced the micro bottle with calcium nitrate and iron sulfate (would recommend iron DTPA now) and that worked too. The "grow" bottle can be replaced with potassium nitrate. I make my own formulas now.
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Grow 2-1-6
Potassium Nitrate(salt peter): 95.50 g/L
Magnesium Nitrate: 57.30 g/L
Potassium Sulfate: 28.20 g/L
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 21.30 g/L
Ammonium Sulfate: 13.10 g/L

Micro 5-0-1
Calcium Nitrate: 336.00 g/L
Potassium Nitrate(salt peter): 50.00 g/L
Fe-EDTA 4.5%: 22.48 mL/L
Mn-EDTA 6%: 7.59 mL/L
Zn-EDTA 9%: 1.52 mL/L
Copper Sulfate: 0.48 g/L
SolUBor: 0.60 g/L
Sodium Molybdate: 0.03 g/L

If you want help converting to a different percentage EDTA chelate or a Sulfate, let me know. I'll help with that.

Bloom 0-5-4
Magnesium Sulfate(Epsom Salt): 270.00 g/L
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 158.00 g/L
Potassium Sulfate: 22.40 g/L
 
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