How much does your political ideology affect your acceptance of science?

How much does your political ideology affect your acceptance of science?

  • I'm left leaning politically and I accept all of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • I'm left leaning politically and I accept some of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm left leaning politically and I accept few of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm left leaning politically and I don't accept any of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • I'm in the center politically and I generally accept the examples of valid science

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • I'm in the center politically and I don't generally accept the examples of valid science

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm right leaning politically and I accept all of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • I'm right leaning politically and I accept some of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • I'm right leaning politically and I accept few of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm right leaning politically and I don't accept any of the examples of valid science

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Total voters
    13

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-global-climate-verge-multi-decadal.html

A new study, by scientists from the University of Southampton and National Oceanography Centre (NOC), implies that the global climate is on the verge of broad-scale change that could last for a number of decades.


The change to the new set of climatic conditions is associated with a cooling of the Atlantic, and is likely to bring drier summers in Britain and Ireland, accelerated sea-level rise along the northeast coast of the United States, and drought in the developing countries of the Sahel region. Since this new climatic phase could be half a degree cooler, it may well offer a brief reprise from the rise of global temperatures, as well as resulting in fewer hurricanes hitting the United States.

The study, published today in Nature, proves that ocean circulation is the link between weather and decadal scale climatic change. It is based on observational evidence of the link between ocean circulation and the decadal variability of sea surface temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Let me pose a philosophical question to you, wanker:

Suppose a scientific theory exists and is universally accepted, say Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, but you (or me, or most people on RIU) don't understand the theory, in fact don't have the first clue what the theory is even about.

Does your (or my) acceptance, embrace and support of the theory represent "science" or "faith"?
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
The "no warming for 17 years" is a myth perpetrated by people who can't read a basic chart, every single credible scientific organization on Earth says so, only you and the deniers believe it (which is why the republicans in congress are fighting to defund the science that proves it)

New Study Provides More Evidence That Global Warming ‘Pause’ Is A Myth

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/25/3475168/global-warming-atlantic/

No, Global Warming Hasn't 'Stopped'

http://news.discovery.com/earth/global-warming/no-global-warming-hasnt-stopped-121017.htm

Has Global Warming Paused?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/has-global-warming-paused/



You're scientifically illiterate if you look at that chart and conclude "No Warmingz for 17 yearses!!"

It goes from -.25 to .50 over the course of 235 years, an increase of .75. Do you know how to math? Is .75 more or less than -.25? Go try it yourself on a calculator and see what you get, is it a positive or negative number?

You are a lemming
Poor wanker. What would you expect the global temperature to do when the Earth is coming off of the "Little Ice Age". You can google it.

Poor wanker, #2. I threw you a softball and you failed to even swing at it. A smarter answer would have been to acknowledge the warming hiatus and point to several possible natural causes of it and say that the hiatus in no way refutes the overall "theory". But you had to dig in your heels and claim that the warming hiatus doesn't exist, despite literally everybody scratching their heads over it and trying to reconcile it with the climbing CO2 level.

Poor wanker, #3. Look at that period at the end of your graph that lasts ~17 years. The one that shows no temperature growth. That is the warming hiatus that IPCC has been trying to claim means nothing despite saying a few years ago "if the hiatus extends beyond 15 years, we will have to rethink the whole warming hypothesis".

Poor wanker, #4. AGW simply does not fit the definition of a scientific theory. It is an hypothesis, and I would add it is a reasonable hypothesis. CO2 is a "greenhouse gas", that is a fact. In the real world, though, something is thwarting the greenhouse property of CO2 in the atmosphere. Maybe that "thwarting" property is permanent, or maybe it is temporary. However, sticking your thumb up your ass and whistling Dixie does not make your argument credible, it just makes you appear to be an imbecile with no credibility. People on the other side dismiss you, and the AGW scare mongering, as a liar and a lie.

There are other hypotheses about the global climate, and some of them are just as plausible as global warming.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
From your source (that you didn't cite, gee.. wonder why..)

"Temperature corruption

In the chapters on Urban Heat Island and thermometer locations above, we've seen that the instrumental temperature dataset is rather primitive and not representative of global temperature. But at least those from rural stations could have shown credible temperature trends. Unfortunately the institutions charged with collecting temperature data, have been making adjustments, in order to show global warming. In this chapter we'll examine how they've done that and to what extent.

These are the main culprits:

NOAA/NASA: NCDC, The United States National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) in Asheville, North Carolina is the world's largest active archive of weather data. The Center has more than 150 years of data on hand with 224 gigabytes of new information added each day. NCDC archives 99 percent of all NOAA data, including over 320 million paper records; 2.5 million microfiche records; over 1.2 petabytes of digital data residing in a mass storage environment. NCDC has satellite weather images back to 1960. NCDC also maintains World Data Center for Meteorology. The four World Centers (US, Russia, Japan and China) have created a free and open atmosphere in which data and dialogue are exchanged. NCDC maintains the US Climate Reference Network datasets amongst a vast number of other climate monitoring products.

CRU: The Climatic Research Unit (CRU) is a component of the University of East Anglia/UK and is one of the leading institutions concerned with the study of natural and anthropogenic climate change. CRU has contributed to the development of a number of the data sets widely used in climate research, including one of the global temperature records used to monitor the state of the climate system. One of the CRU's most significant products is the global near-surface temperature record compiled in conjunction with the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research. First compiled in the early 1980s, the record documents global temperature fluctuations since the 1850s. The CRU compiles the land component of the record and the Hadley Centre provides the marine component. The merged record is used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in all its publications.

NCAR/UCAR: The National Center for Atmospheric Research is a nongovernmental institute (business) in the United States that conducts collaborative research in atmospheric and Earth system science. The center has multiple facilities, including the I. M. Pei-designed Mesa Laboratory headquarters in Boulder, Colorado. NCAR is managed by the nonprofit University Corporation for Atmospheric Research (UCAR, a climate business) and sponsored by the National Science Foundation (NSF). Studies include meteorology, climate science, atmospheric chemistry, solar-terrestrial interactions, environmental and societal impacts. UCAR also keeps and adjusts all ice core data.

WMO: The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) is an intergovernmental organization with a membership of 189 Member States and Territories. It originated from the International Meteorological Organization (IMO), which was founded in 1873. Established in 1950, WMO became the specialised agency of the United Nations for meteorology (weather and climate), operational hydrology and related geophysical sciences. It has its headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. It is the UN system's authoritative voice on the state and behavior of the Earth's atmosphere, its interaction with the oceans, the climate it produces and the resulting distribution of water resources.

"The data changes hands more times than a basketball at a Globetrotter event. And with each hand, changes are made to the data, either intentionally or through normal errors that occur in transport and interpretation of data. I should note, that often the words “raw” and “un-adjusted”, when discussing temperature data, often take on Orwellian characteristics and mean opposite the connotation these words conjure. My point is, by the time GISS gets done doing whatever it is that they do to the data, it has been so homogenized, normalized, and any other “ized” you can think of, I’ve little reason to believe they accurately reflect reality." - James Sexton 2011

As one can see, the climate data is in the hands of a very few actors, which invites for corrupting the data towards political ends. Fortunately much of the data is freely available (after adjustments), even though much also has been kept under wraps (CRU), as exposed by the Climategate scandal. Determined skeptics like Ross McKitrick, Stephen McIntyre, Anthony Watts, Joe d'Aleo, Fred Singer, John Daly and many others, managed to show how much the temperature data has been corrupted, mainly in four invisible ways:

Say, who are these guys ^^^?

Ross McKitrick - He is the co-author of Taken By Storm: The Troubled Science, Policy and Politics of Global Warming (2003)

Taken By Storm: The Troubled Science, Policy and Politics of Global Warming is a 2002 book about the global warming controversy by Christopher Essex and Ross McKitrick. The authors argue that politicians and others claim far more certainty than is justified by the science:

"We believe there has been no conspiracy to dupe the public and the people in question have nothing but the best of intentions. It appears instead that a lot of well-meaning people got locked unwittingly into a game that requires them to speak as if they are absolutely certain about matters upon which certainty is inherently impossible. Many prominent players have staked their reputations on positions that cannot be supported by science or sound policy analysis."
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
The authors argue that public policy discussions have abandoned science and resorted to ad hominem attacks:

"Global warming ceased to be a subject of scientific debate years ago. Watch how critics jump straight to an examination of motives or credentials rather than the substance of an author’s argument whenever books like this one are published. The argument, it seems, is that what you say, whether it is true or not, matters less than the way you say it or who you are. Scrutinizing the messenger rather than the message may be an effective political ploy; but what we are engaged in is not, at its heart, a political question. Our society has already done substantial harm to itself by not grasping this crucial point."

Stephen McIntyre - He is best known as the founder and editor of Climate Audit, a blog devoted to the analysis and discussion of climate data. He is most prominent as a critic of the temperature record of the past 1000 years and the data quality of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies. He is known in particular for his statistical critique, with economist Ross McKitrick, of the hockey stick graph which appears to show that the increase in late 20th century global temperatures is unprecedented in the past 1,000 years.

Anthony Watts - He operates Watts Up With That?, a weather and climate change[6][7] blog that focuses on the global warming controversy and his opinion that the human role in global warming is insignificant. It is described by climatologist Michael E. Mann in The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars as having "overtaken Climate Audit as the leading climate change denial blog".

Watts Up With That? (or WUWT) is a blog dedicated to climate change skepticism or denial created in 2006 by Anthony Watts. The tagline of the blog is "News and commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news."

The blog predominantly discusses climate issues with a focus on anthropogenic climate change, generally accommodating beliefs that are in opposition to the scientific consensus on climate change. Contributors include Christopher Monckton and Fred Singer as guest authors.[4] In November 2009, the blog was one of the first websites to publish emails and documents from the Climatic Research Unit controversy, and a driving force behind its coverage.

In the early months of 2010, it was suggested the site might be "the most read climate blog in the world," and is among the most influential climate change denial blogs on the Internet."

Yeah.. you get the idea..

hushing up instrument failure: temperatures are measured from space by radiometers, which do drift over time, as also other components fail or age. To keep using the satellite data, arbitrary adjustments are made and/or interpolations between more reliable stations and/or other satellites. Even though scientists are obliged to document and report such failures, they make an exception for 'global warming'. link.

drifting satellite measurements: temperature is measured at a distance by a radiometer. Although these instruments have great short-term acuracy, they have the habit of 'drifting' over time, which makes baseline adjustments necessary. The way this is done, is to bring the satellite data in agreement with (corrupted) ground data. See orbiting thermometers in chapter1.
undocumented arbitrary adjustments: arbitrary adjustments have been made to past records (downward) and recent records (upward), giving the impression of a steady rise. No documents have been kept to explain these adjustments. 1, 2,
selecting favourable stations: fraud can be committed simply by selecting certain stations over others.

promoting urban thermometers: by gradually phasing out rural thermometers in favour of urban thermometers, the Urban Heat Island effect became dominant, giving the impression of steady global warming as world's populations and cities grew.
promoting lowland thermometers: the number of sites at higher altitudes (thus colder) diminished in favour of more lowland sites that are warmer.

promoting low-latitude thermometers: the number of sites closer to the equator increased and those from higher latitudes (thus colder) decreased.

promoting daily maxima: while downplaying minimum temperature measurements, the maximum readings became more prominent where it suited, and minima in other periods.

accidental data corruption: where data was corrupted accidentally, it was not corrected when the error gave warming."


http://www.seafriends.org.nz/issues/global/climate3.htm


So "everybody's scratching their heads" huh? You mean all the climate change deniers like you? That "everyone"? Those same guys who repeat the same old debunked bullshit arguments at all their conferences who never shut the fuck up about it and admit they were wrong when all the data says they are, like you?

Conspiracy theory, fucktard. Enjoy getting your brain turned into mush by the likes of con artists, it will only make you dumber
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
i would like that. it's my wife who wants kids.

i'd rather not have that massive responsibility, but i knew what i was getting into when i married her.

and now that all our friends and same age family are having kids, i kinda want to as well. biology is a mother fucker.
I hope you do a good job as a father. If you need any help with potty training tips, there are lots of resources out there.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Should it really surprise anyone you don't accept anthropogenic climate change when these are the people you trust when it comes to the scientific facts?

You don't believe the scientific consensus because of your personal political beliefs and the people in government you think are on "your side", even when shown the overwhelming evidence and the counter evidence against all the people you attempt to pass off as credible. That's what it actually comes down to. That's why your side is losing this battle, and will inevitably lose the war.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
A would-be theory that makes no observable predictions is not a scientific theory at all.
man, he put it into a larger font size.

well, that settles the climate change debate. NASA is clearly wrong on this, and the white supremacist who loves him some fox news has it right.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
global temperature has stalled for the last 17 years.
then why was the last decade the hottest on record, and the decade before that the second hottest on record, all followed up by the hottest year on record last year?

could it be that you are simply repeating something you heard on fox news and in your klan chapter?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-global-climate-verge-multi-decadal.html

A new study, by scientists from the University of Southampton and National Oceanography Centre (NOC), implies that the global climate is on the verge of broad-scale change that could last for a number of decades.


The change to the new set of climatic conditions is associated with a cooling of the Atlantic, and is likely to bring drier summers in Britain and Ireland, accelerated sea-level rise along the northeast coast of the United States, and drought in the developing countries of the Sahel region. Since this new climatic phase could be half a degree cooler, it may well offer a brief reprise from the rise of global temperatures, as well as resulting in fewer hurricanes hitting the United States.

The study, published today in Nature, proves that ocean circulation is the link between weather and decadal scale climatic change. It is based on observational evidence of the link between ocean circulation and the decadal variability of sea surface temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean.
i'm sure muyloco and desert rat appreciate a third white supremacist jumping in to help.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Poor wanker. What would you expect the global temperature to do when the Earth is coming off of the "Little Ice Age". You can google it.
the earth was cooling for about 5000 years since coming out of the last ice age 12,000 years ago.

that has all been undone in 100 years.



must be termite farts, right?
 
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