How much do the rich make, pay in taxes, and how much more can they pay?

C

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Willyßagseed;6060445 said:
Do some math and see what happens to the deficit if we got rid of the Bush tax cuts, went back to Pre Reagan tax rates and closed all the incentives NAFTA gives corporations to move production off shore (corporate welfare on 'roids). We would also do better if we had real news instead of infotainment but the Telecom bill in the '90s took care of real news.

Seems to me we did just fine from the 1950's - 1978 ( until JC jumped on the dereg bandwagon)

Many people think the USA did just fine 1980 - present and many did........... MAXING out their credit cards. Can't sustain living like that.
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Well, if we did what you propose we would probably still not be able to balance our budget. Why? We spend a lot more.

Also, you cannot say that raising taxes to those %'s would not lower our total tax income. You might want to read up on the Laffer Curve for an idea of why it could work that way.

People were not 'living' off of credit cards in 1980's anymore than they are now. People use their credit cards to buy shit they don't need. They aren't paying their electric with it. If they are, its because A) They are irresponsible and don't budget.(like our government) or B) They spent their bill money on stupid shit they didn't need.(like our government) Show me one 'poor' family that doesn't have nikes, a new car, doesn't smoke or drink, do drugs, or have other issues.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
Where we are at the laffur curve up is up and down is down... Meaning lower taxes means less revenue as evidenced by the FACT that federal revenue went DOWN not up with the bush tax cuts
 
C

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
mame said:
Where we are at the laffur curve up is up and down is down... Meaning lower taxes means less revenue as evidenced by the FACT that federal revenue went DOWN not UP with the bush tax cuts
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Was referring to the 1980's tax %. Also, the economy tanked, that lowered tax income itself. No one knows the exact number. Also the laffer curve doesn't just refer to federal taxes.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
well, of course the laffer curve applies to more than just federal taxes, but that's not really the point. The thing to realize is that at current rates at the federal level, lower taxes will NOT mean more revenue, it means less and so lowering taxes will not help with our fiscal situation. Furthermore, lowering taxes on "job creators" will not create many jobs at all - because we're in a demand side slump(specifically a liquidity trap).
 
WillyBagseed

WillyBagseed

Active Member
Carthoris said:
Well, if we did what you propose we would probably still not be able to balance our budget. Why? We spend a lot more.

Also, you cannot say that raising taxes to those %'s would not lower our total tax income. You might want to read up on the Laffer Curve for an idea of why it could work that way.

People were not 'living' off of credit cards in 1980's anymore than they are now. People use their credit cards to buy shit they don't need. They aren't paying their electric with it. If they are, its because A) They are irresponsible and don't budget.(like our government) or B) They spent their bill money on stupid shit they didn't need.(like our government) Show me one 'poor' family that doesn't have nikes, a new car, doesn't smoke or drink, do drugs, or have other issues.
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Isn't the Laffer curve tied mostly to VOODOO... errr.......supply side economics?.... nuff said....... :eyesmoke:
 
C

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
mame said:
well, of course the laffer curve applies to more than just federal taxes, but that's not really the point. The thing to realize is that at current rates at the federal level, lower taxes will NOT mean more revenue, it means less and so lowering taxes will not help with our fiscal situation. Furthermore, lowering taxes on "job creators" will not create many jobs at all - because we're in a demand side slump(specifically a liquidity trap).
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Created by the very sort of government supported consumerism that our politicians have implemented. Fixing the slump wont fix the issue when the slump is the real economy and the 'fix' is to artificially inflate the demand for products or labor.
 
C

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Willyßagseed;6067940 said:
Isn't the Laffer curve tied mostly to VOODOO... errr.......supply side economics?.... nuff said....... :eyesmoke:
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Everyone agree that there is a point of taxation where production goes down. It is the level that is different from side to side. It isn't a left or right thing.

What is the practical benefit of inflating an economy beyond long term sustainability?

What is the ultimate goal of our government? There has to be a goal doesn't there? If the goal isn't individual freedom - what is it?
 
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