How much bleach to kill rootrot or brown algae?

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
Al B. Fuct says... "Laundry bleach (sodium hypochlorite, NaOCl) in hydroponics: Just don't do it. PLEASE. Use hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), 50% grade at 1ml/L of nute soln, applied every 3-4 days. Controls all pathogens and oxygenates roots when H2O2 breaks down. NaOCl is toxic to cannabis plants, as are its breakdown components, inclusive of NaCl (sodium chloride eg table salt). If you can only get 35% 'food grade' (used for sterilising food processing equip), use 1.7ml/L."
FUDD, I got household bleach in front of me that does not have NaOCl.

Well bleach actually worked, i have new root growth after using 12ml per 30L of water
Bleach works fine for short term usage, but if your using it as a maintainance regime then H2O2 is what you want to use; although I know some growers who swear by regular chlorox and have the long term usage stats behind them to prove it. The bleach has solved the syptoms, have you found the root of the problem?

Good luck as it seems tou have your bases covered regarding nutrients, light leaks, rez temperature.. did you grow these from seed?

regards,
 
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karmeron

Active Member
Bleach works fine for short term usage, but if your usig it as a maintainance regime then H2O2 is what you want to use. The bleach has solved the syptom, have you found the root of the problem?

Good luck as it seems tou have your bases covered regarding nutrients, light leaks, rez temperature.. did you grow these from seed?

regards,
Please read the thread, Ive already stated what the problem was, the clones used were already infected and had problems from day 1, there is no ligh leaks etc as equipment was checked before use. Ive read conflicting info on H2O2 and bleach, just like everything on MJ websites. Some say H2O2 is worse for your roots because of the concentrations you have to use. Some commercial greenhouses use bleach in low ppms all the way through rather than H2O2 with no ill effects, so I dont know what to believe. All I know is 19% H2O2 upto 100ml per 30L water and doses from 30ml-50ml every 2 days didnt help with my issues, but 1x dose of bleach @ 12ml per 30L water did, thats all I can go on for now.
 

Blue Dog

Member
I've been looking for info on using bleach in a cloner and I think you're on the right track, the trick is to find the amount that will kill that pathogens but not damage the roots. From what I'm reading you're probably pushing the upper limit but as you noted it's so hard to find reliable info on anything related to growing pot. I was reading another thread from a hydro guy using 8 drops per gal every 5 days with great results, so that's what I'm going to try. Have you had to re-dose them yet?
 

karmeron

Active Member
I've been looking for info on using bleach in a cloner and I think you're on the right track, the trick is to find the amount that will kill that pathogens but not damage the roots. From what I'm reading you're probably pushing the upper limit but as you noted it's so hard to find reliable info on anything related to growing pot. I was reading another thread from a hydro guy using 8 drops per gal every 5 days with great results, so that's what I'm going to try. Have you had to re-dose them yet?
No i just used 1 heavy dose and now Ive new root growth. The plants are doing fine though.
 

budafinger

Active Member
Standard household bleach (5-6%) first application if experiencing slime and rot issues = 10ml per 50 L, allow 3 days for evaporation/gassing off etc, 10ml per 50 L again, dump res after another 3-4 days, new nutes (no organics and definitely no ezymes) 5ml per 50L repeat twice a week, no need to dump res just top up as needed. Slime will be a thing of the past, Pythium will be gone, pots, drippers and lines cleanest you've seen them, plants healthy as fuck and gleaming white roots everywhere. Chuck in a chiller and keep your max EC to 1.2 in RDWC and with 4 week veg adequate lighting and a good strain your pulling 20oz dry with ease! Simple!
 

J Henry

Active Member
... plenty of DO...
Low oxygen in DWC s a very common cause of root death and sick plants, fungal infestations and so on so they say which is most probably correct most of the time.

Not busting your chops here, but just wondering if you have actually tested your rez water DO Saturation and ruled out root suffocation/root death caused by low DO Saturation. Do you really know what your DO Saturation is /was at the crisis? Or, are you simply guessing, hoping, saying that you have “plenty oxygen?”

What is your actual DO Saturation - tested?
 

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
Low oxygen in DWC s a very common cause of root death and sick plants, fungal infestations and so on so they say which is most probably correct most of the time.

Not busting your chops here, but just wondering if you have actually tested your rez water DO Saturation and ruled out root suffocation/root death caused by low DO Saturation. Do you really know what your DO Saturation is /was at the crisis? Or, are you simply guessing, hoping, saying that you have “plenty oxygen?”

What is your actual DO Saturation - tested?
You just won't leave the DO thing alone, will you? Even though it's not an issue for 99% of people. Just give up.

 

J Henry

Active Member
Some of you may be interested is a little science here, especially those that do not have a firm grip on dissolved oxygen in DWC.

So how much dissolved oxygen do you need in the root system and how do you achieve that desired level? Hayes says the first step is getting a dissolved oxygen meter and probe to measure your baseline. The typical dissolved oxygen probe can detect from 20 up to 50 ppm and up to 500% saturation. That is a critical first step and tool in understanding dissolved oxygen in the root system. Another important tool to have is an oxidation-reduction potential meter (ORP meter), which indicates the level of residual oxidizer left in the water.”

March 29, 2017 https://www.cannabisindustryjournal.com/tag/grow/

Understanding Dissolved Oxygen in Cannabis Cultivation

By Aaron G. Biros

Oxygen plays an integral role in plant photosynthesis, respiration and transpiration. Photosynthesis requires water from the roots making its way up the plant via capillary action, which is where oxygen’s job comes in. For both water and nutrient uptake, oxygen levels at the root tips and hairs is a controlling input. A plant converts sugar from photosynthesis to ATP in the respiration process, where oxygen is delivered from the root system to the leaf and plays a direct role in the process.

Charlie Hayes has a degree in biochemistry and spent the past 17 years researching and designing water treatment processes to improve plant health. Hayes is a biochemist and owner of Advanced Treatment Technologies, a water treatment solutions provider. In a presentation at the CannaGrow conference, Hayes discussed the various benefits of dissolved oxygen throughout the cultivation process. We sat down with Hayes to learn about the science behind improving cannabis plant production via dissolved oxygen.

In transpiration, water evaporates from a plant’s leaves via the stomata and creates a ‘transpirational pull,’ drawing water, oxygen and nutrients from the soil or other growing medium. That process helps cool the plant down, changes osmotic pressure in cells and enables a flow of water and nutrients up from the root system, according to Hayes.

Charlie Hayes, biochemist and owner of Advanced Treatment Technologies

Roots in an oxygen-rich environment can absorb nutrients more effectively. “The metabolic energy required for nutrient uptake come from root respiration using oxygen,” says Hayes. “Using high levels of oxygen can ensure more root mass, more fine root hairs and healthy root tips.” A majority of water in the plant is taken up by the fine root hairs and requires a lot of energy, and thus oxygen, to produce new cells.

So what happens if you don’t have enough oxygen in your root system? Hayes says that can reduce water and nutrient uptake, reduce root and overall plant growth, induce wilting (even outside of heat stress) in heat stress and reduce the overall photosynthesis and glucose transfer capabilities of the plant. Lower levels of dissolved oxygen also significantly reduce transpiration in the plant. Another effect that oxygen-deprived root systems can have is the production of ethylene, which can cause cells to collapse and make them more susceptible to disease. He says if you are having issues with unhealthy root systems, increasing the oxygen levels around the root system can improve root health. “Oxygen starved root tips can lead to a calcium shortage in the shoot,” says Hayes. “That calcium shortage is a common issue with a lack of oxygen, but in an oxygen-deprived environment, anaerobic organisms can attack the root system, which could present bigger problems.”

So how much dissolved oxygen do you need in the root system and how do you achieve that desired level? Hayes says the first step is getting a dissolved oxygen meter and probe to measure your baseline. The typical dissolved oxygen probe can detect from 20 up to 50 ppm and up to 500% saturation. That is a critical first step and tool in understanding dissolved oxygen in the root system. Another important tool to have is an oxidation-reduction potential meter (ORP meter), which indicates the level of residual oxidizer left in the water.

Their treatment system includes check valves that are OSHA and fire code-compliant.

Citing research and experience from his previous work, he says that health and production improvements in cannabis plateau at the 40-45 parts-per-million (ppm) of dissolved oxygen in the root zone. But to achieve those levels, growers need to start with an even higher level of dissolved oxygen in a treatment system to deliver that 40-45 ppm to the roots. “Let’s say for example with 3 ppm of oxygen in the root tissue and 6ppm of oxygen in the surrounding soil or growing medium, higher concentrations outside of the tissue would help drive absorption for the root system membrane,” says Hayes.

Reaching that 40-45 ppm range can be difficult however and there are a couple methods of delivering dissolved oxygen. The most typical method is aeration of water using bubbling or injecting air into the water. This method has some unexpected ramifications though. Oxygen is only one of many gasses in air and those other gasses can be much more soluble in water. Paying attention to Henry’s Law is important here. Henry’s Law essentially means that the solubility of gasses is controlled by temperature, pressure and concentration. For example, Hayes says carbon dioxide is up to twenty times more soluble than oxygen. That means the longer you aerate water, the higher concentration of carbon dioxide and lower concentration of oxygen over time.

Another popular method of oxidizing water is chemically. Some growers might use hydrogen peroxide to add dissolved oxygen to a water-based solution, but that can create a certain level of phytotoxicity that could be bad for root health.

Using ozone, Hayes says, is by far the most effective method of getting dissolved oxygen in water, (because it is 12 ½ times more soluble than oxygen). But just using an ozone generator will not effectively deliver dissolved oxygen at the target levels to the root system. In order to use ozone properly, you need a treatment system that can handle a high enough concentration of ozone, mix it properly and hold it in the solution, says Hayes. “Ozone is an inherently unstable molecule, with a half-life of 15 minutes and even down to 3-5 minutes, which is when it converts to dissolved oxygen,” says Hayes. Using a patented control vessel, Hayes can use a counter-current, counter-rotational liquid vortex to mix the solution under pressure after leaving a vacuum. Their system can produce two necessary tools for growers: highly ozonized water, which can be sent through the irrigation system to effectively destroy microorganisms and resident biofilms, and water with high levels of dissolved oxygen for use in the root system.

Impressive info about DO, No? There’s much more info too.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
very impressive sales pitch for o2grow.com ms henry.

do you have any side by side pics of a cannabis grow using your company's product that you could show us?
 

J Henry

Active Member
You 2 morons try reading this again… “So how much dissolved oxygen do you need in the root system and how do you achieve that desired level? Hayes says the first step is getting a dissolved oxygen meter and probe to measure your baseline. The typical dissolved oxygen probe can detect from 20 up to 50 ppm and up to 500% saturation. That is a critical first step and tool in understanding dissolved oxygen in the root system. Another important tool to have is an oxidation-reduction potential meter (ORP meter), which indicates the level of residual oxidizer left in the water.”

8th grade General Science students that passed the course all know that elemental oxygen, O2, is not air, DO Charts the water chiller salesmen use is bases on ambient air (80% Nitrogen and a dab of O2).

If you failed this class, it’s may not be too late to learn and expand your horizons today… try again and try harder this time.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
At 5ppm you start killing nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrate.
The problem with ammonia and short low exposures (where this is concerned) in water is biofilm, that snotty stuff you feel on the inside of a water container.
It can actually keep ammonia outside, that is why they recommend cleaning an infected aquarium with alcohol wipes first to break it down and then hit it with ammonia.
At high enough concentrations it will pretty much take most organic stuff apart.

You can also maybe look up potassium permanganate use as an avenue.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
At 5ppm you start killing nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrate.
The problem with ammonia and short low exposures (where this is concerned) in water is biofilm, that snotty stuff you feel on the inside of a water container.
It can actually keep ammonia outside, that is why they recommend cleaning an infected aquarium with alcohol wipes first to break it down and then hit it with ammonia.
At high enough concentrations it will pretty much take most organic stuff apart.

You can also maybe look up potassium permanganate use as an avenue.
plus, if the KMnO4 doesnt work out .....it fits well in the bug out bag. makes fire with antifreeze and some other uses too.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
Bubbles don't aerate the water, it moves water from the bottom to the surface where gas exchange takes place.
 

J Henry

Active Member
Bubbles don't aerate the water, it moves water from the bottom to the surface where gas exchange takes place.
Looks like ANC may have exposed the salesman “rocketman” is constantly pissing and moaning and always whining about when he’s in a drugged-stupor? No insult intended “rocket.”

So who in the world is this guy in this infomercial video?

Is this J Henry as “rocketman” claims?

Could this be ANC coming out today?

Or maybe this is really Mr. Billy Bob Lancaster, the Own in this O2Grow infomercial?
 

J Henry

Active Member
At 5ppm you start killing nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrate.
ANC – Most people have fess-up that they have no clue what their DO is because most people have never tested rez water DO and could personally care less which is not very bright when DO is the most vital element necessary to sustain aerobic roots and beneficial microbes. And a single DO test only cost about $0.50 each and the forum gurus all say DO testing cost too much, testing is not necessary?

A few feel this vital element O2 is necessary for all aerobes. If there is not a steady supply of minimal safe concentration of this most vital element, of course that's really bad news.

The water chiller salesman never recommend nor want you actually testing DO’s either, what if that chilled water actually reveals a low DO? How would a salesman explained away a low DO Test in chilled water with the DO test result staring you in the face. Well, he wouldn’t, couldn’t explain that away. Does the water chiller warranty cover failure to provide continuous 100% DO Saturation for 1 year? Ask a salesman and find out.

They claim out of frank ignorance that DO is not important and testing DO is meaningless, just keep the water cold with a water chiller and there will be “plenty dissolved oxygen” for all the root balls and microorganisms and they have proof because that they have never had a low oxygen symptoms in the last 20 years. Now that sounds impressive doesn’t it.

If you are not as successful these dudes, well, you probably got low DO problems that killed the roots and you caught the root rot and your root rot invited the fungal infection problems, yada, yada, yada. Then comes the rush to kill the fungus and the song goes repeating.

All this frustration and worry about crop failure because you could not, would not insure minimal safe DO saturations continuously for your crop is meaningless when you guessing the DO is within a safe range.

Does this sales pitch sound familiar? Water chiller salesman all claim that “safe DO” in DWC pot your hydroponic rez water for grow is continuous 100% DO Saturation, the DO Chart proves it” that’s why you need to buy a water chiller.
 
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