How many watts and lumens is a good target for a 4x4

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
The exact luminous efficacy is easy to calculate, it is given in the datasheet. One strip is 2195 lumens at 700mA and 19.1v. If I run it at 933mA and 19.4v (18.1w), the chart in the datasheet: https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS132 Bridgelux EB Series Gen3 Data Sheet 20190617 Rev A.pdf
shows that at 933mA the lumen output is: 131% of nominal (2195) = 2195 x 1.31 = 2875. The luminous efficiency is 2875 lm / 18.1w = 158 lm/w.
That's correct, assuming the lumens scale up and down evenly at different currents, which this strip apparently does. Regarding the other calculations, I thought the wattage was implied in the luminous efficacy number. If I take total luminous flux and multiply it by watts and plug that into a PPF calculator, I'm still getting the same numbers as when I calculate the other way. Guess I'm missing something here.
 

tilopa

Well-Known Member
Yeah but its only 100 more umole than a 1000w Hortilux HPS at 1600PPF. HLG is 1700-1770. Ive seen both measurements. But is still rated at only 70 more PPF than the Gavita 1700e at best.

DE Gavita is 2100 PPF, rated 5 x 5 and is 400 more PPF. IMHO HLG is stretching measurements just a little, though they will work in the advertised 5 x 5.

Gavita rates the 1700e at 4 x 4, and HLG 5 x 5. Both are basically the same power. Ill believe Gavita.

Gavita says their 1700e, which I own is made for a 4 x 4 and a direct replacement for a 1000w HID.

Phillips also makes the Toplight Compact, and is 1800PPF, and 630w, and they rate it at a 4 x 4. They wont sell these individually though. $32,000 for 40 of them.
These PPF values are completely dependent on how far the meter is from the light, and as such they are not very valuable alone. Like you said the Gavita DE 1000 is 2100 PPF. But if I'm trying to replace my DE 1000 am I supposed to take that data and match it to an LED. The only relevant data is how much micromoles / s of photon energy are hitting my plants, all of them not just the ones in the middle. But that information seems to be harder to come by without a meter.
 
Last edited:

tilopa

Well-Known Member
That's correct, assuming the lumens scale up and down evenly at different currents, which this strip apparently does. Regarding the other calculations, I thought the wattage was implied in the luminous efficacy number. If I take total luminous flux and multiply it by watts and plug that into a PPF calculator, I'm still getting the same numbers as when I calculate the other way. Guess I'm missing something here.
The problem is that the calculator is asking for efficiency in micromoles / joule, and all I have to work with is lumens / watt. It says to take the value for micromoles / j and multiply it by the wattage to get the PPF. If I instead use the number for lm / w and multiply it by watts the number is way too large.
 

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
That's correct, assuming the lumens scale up and down evenly at different currents, which this strip apparently does. Regarding the other calculations, I thought the wattage was implied in the luminous efficacy number. If I take total luminous flux and multiply it by watts and plug that into a PPF calculator, I'm still getting the same numbers as when I calculate the other way. Guess I'm missing something here.
You must be. I think you have to take into account the max current the driver can put out because otherwise you'd have a potentially infinite ppfd based on the number of strips the user chooses to use based on your equation surely?
 

GBAUTO

Well-Known Member
These PPF values are completely dependent on how far the meter is from the light, and as such they are not very valuable alone.
PPF output of a fixture is constant. When it's on, that's how 'much' light it can generate.
PPFD is a spot measurement and will vary according to how well the fixture distributes the PPF it generates.
PPF is how much and PPFD is how evenly it is spread over an area.
 

Barristan Whitebeard

Well-Known Member
The problem is that the calculator is asking for efficiency in micromoles / joule, and all I have to work with is lumens / watt. It says to take the value for micromoles / j and multiply it by the wattage to get the PPF. If I instead use the number for lm / w and multiply it by watts the number is way too large.
Which strips are you trying to figure out efficacy in μmol/joule for? The 2ft. EB Gen 3 3000k 90 CRI strips?
 

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
You must be. I think you have to take into account the max current the driver can put out because otherwise you'd have a potentially infinite ppfd based on the number of strips the user chooses to use based on your equation surely?
Well, there's probably a good reason I'm not an electrical engineer. Here's another calculator. Samsung F L09 have a typical luminous flux of 8670. If I input 8600 and choose high cri 3000k led, I get 163.64 umol/s, which is right in the ballpark of the 168 lm/w quoted on the Samsung data sheet. If I multiply umol/s or lm/w by the number of strips and input it into the other calculator, I'm getting reasonable PPFD numbers. I thought this method was sound, but maybe not.

Convert Lumens to PPF - Online Calculator
 

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
Well, there's probably a good reason I'm not an electrical engineer. Here's another calculator. Samsung F L09 have a typical luminous flux of 8670. If I input 8600 and choose high cri 3000k led, I get 163.64 umol/s, which is right in the ballpark of the 168 lm/w quoted on the Samsung data sheet. If I multiply umol/s or lm/w by the number of strips and input it into the other calculator, I'm getting reasonable PPFD numbers. I thought this method was sound, but maybe not.

Convert Lumens to PPF - Online Calculator
I'm only a beginner myself mate, but it just doesn't make sense that the ppfd goes up infinitely based on the number of strips. I think power has to factor into the equation then see what you get out. Pretty sure that's the bit missing from the calculation.
 

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
@CaliWorthington

Use this to get your ppf first. Then use that calculator you linked.

https://www.waveformlighting.com/horticulture/convert-lumens-to-ppf-online-calculator

Use the specs on the strip's datasheet or on the digikey page for lumens per watt, then multiply by the power each strip will be run at, then the colour temp of your strip.

What you come out with, enter in your original calculator with the total watts. Strip number is irrelevant then I think. It's more about the spread of light and how much will reach the surface area
 
Last edited:

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
@CaliWorthington

Use this to get your ppf first. Then use that calculator you linked.

https://www.waveformlighting.com/horticulture/convert-lumens-to-ppf-online-calculator

Use the specs on the strip's datasheet or on the digikey page for lumens per watt, then multiply by the power each strip will be run at, then the colour temp of your strip.

What you come out with, enter in your original calculator with the total watts. Strip number is irrelevant then I think. It's more about the spread of light and how much will reach the surface area
So 168 lm/w x 51.5 watts x 3000? That's a PPF of over 25 million. Maybe I should give up on math and just grow weed.
 

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
Just done a calculation based on my space. Someone tell me if I've got this wrong.

So The F-Series run at 168 Lumens per watt and the light is 480w max.

Using the waveform calculator:

168 lumens x 480w = 80,640

80,640 input into the waveform calculator with high CRI 3000K as my choice = 1540 umol/s

Take that number and put it into the HLG calculator and, if 80% of the light reaches the target I have a ppfd of 1083

if 90% its over 1200 ppfd

Not sure about heights etc tho
 

tilopa

Well-Known Member
@CaliWorthington

Use this to get your ppf first. Then use that calculator you linked.

https://www.waveformlighting.com/horticulture/convert-lumens-to-ppf-online-calculator

Use the specs on the strip's datasheet or on the digikey page for lumens per watt, then multiply by the power each strip will be run at, then the colour temp of your strip.

What you come out with, enter in your original calculator with the total watts. Strip number is irrelevant then I think. It's more about the spread of light and how much will reach the surface area
According to this I would get
Result: 1641.34 umol/s
Seems a bit unrealistically high. Oh, my bad I was thinking this was ppfd.

After HLG calc: 938 PPFD
 

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
Maybe that's at light level. That bit's a bit vague. Does it say anywhere at what distance that figure is accurate?
 
Top