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How longs it take to die of CO2 Poisining

Discussion in 'Toke N Talk' started by FlipDV, Feb 11, 2009.


    FlipDV Well-Known Member

    Wondering how long it takes to pass out from Carbon dioxide poisoning.

    No, I'm not going to do it, I'm just curious.
    And if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's where you'd attach a hose from the muffler to exhaust pipe + put the pipe in your car + rev the engine.

    Once again, I'm not suicidal, just curiosity.
    I just picked up an oz, I'm not suicidal for awhile ;) :P
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    To be honest, its the Carbon MONOXIDE that kills ya in the car situation, not Dioxide!
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    This document discusses the toxicity and exposure limits for exposure to carbon dioxide gas (CO2). We give references and explanation regarding Toxicity of Carbon Dioxide, based on literature search and search on Compuserve's Safety Forum by Dan Friedman. This is background information, obtained from expert sources. This text may assist readers in understanding these topics. However it should by no means be considered complete nor authoritative. Seek prompt advice from your doctor or health/safety experts if you have any reason to be concerned about exposure to toxic gases.
    Links on this page also direct the reader to carbon monoxide gas information in a separate document. IF YOU SUSPECT ANY BUILDING GAS-RELATED POISONING GO INTO FRESH AIR IMMEDIATELY and get others out of the building, then call your fire department or emergency services for help. © Copyright 2009 Daniel Friedman, All Rights Reserved. Information Accuracy & Bias Pledge is at below-left. Use links at the left of each page to navigate this document or to view other topics at this website. Green links show where you are in our document or website.
    [​IMG] CO2 POISONING SYMPTOMS - Carbon Dioxide poisoning symptoms

    The photo shows a Drager colorimetric gas detection tube used to test the CO2 levels in air. In an indoor air test (in our laboratory) the detector found that the CO2 level was about 600ppm which is typical of indoor air and is an acceptable and safe level.
    Outdoors the typical carbon dioxide CO2 level in air is 300 ppm to 400 ppm. 400 ppm is a 0.04% concentration of a gas in air.
    A comparison with even a relatively low level of indoor CO2 (600 ppm and higher) may indicate a lack of adequate fresh air entering a building.

    Basic Information about Concentrations of CO2 in Air

    • 1,000,000 ppm of a gas = 100 % concentration of the gas, and 10,000 ppm of a gas in air = a 1% concentration.
    • At 1% concentration of carbon dioxide CO2 (10,000 parts per million or ppm) and under continuous exposure at that level, such as in an auditorium filled with occupants and poor fresh air ventilation, some occupants are likely to feel drowsy.
    • The concentration of carbon dioxide must be over about 2% (20,000 ppm) before most people are aware of its presence unless the odor of an associated material (auto exhaust or fermenting yeast, for instance) is present at lower concentrations.
    • Above 2%, carbon dioxide may cause a feeling of heaviness in the chest and/or more frequent and deeper respirations.
    • If exposure continues at that level for several hours, minimal "acidosis" (an acid condition of the blood) may occur but more frequently is absent.
    • Breathing rate doubles at 3% CO2 and is four times the normal rate at 5% CO2.
    • Toxic levels of carbon dioxide: at levels above 5%, concentration CO2 is directly toxic. [At lower levels we may be seeing effects of a reduction in the relative amount of oxygen rather than direct toxicity of CO2.]
    Symptoms of high or prolonged exposure to carbon dioxide include headache, increased heart rate, dizziness, fatigue, rapid breathing, visual and hearing dysfunctions. Exposure to higher levels may cause unconsciousness or death within minutes of exposure.
    Distinguishing between high carbon dioxide levels CO2 and low oxygen levels O2 in air

    What may be unclear in some cases is whether the sub-acute (sub-toxic) effects at modestly-elevated levels of CO2 in air stem from more from exposure to higher levels of carbon dioxide or whether they are due to reduced levels of oxygen. In an enclosed space such as a tight home or an enclosed basement or work space, increasing the level of CO2 is likely to simultaneously reduce the proportion of Oxygen (O2) in that same breathing air.
    Some experts opine that a complaints that seem to be associated with high CO2 problem in many if not most circumstances are likely to be actually due to the corresponding reduction in available oxygen in air rather than high toxicity levels of CO2 in the air. As carbon dioxide levels climb above a few percent the relative proportions of gases making up that air change: the concentration of oxygen in the air inhaled is reduced as the amount of CO2 is increased.
    More carbon dioxide may mean less oxygen: Let's say, sake of simplicity, that we're converting oxygen to carbon dioxide in an enclosed space. Then when the CO2 level has increased from its normal amount in air (about 0.03%) up to a higher concentration in air of 1.4% CO2 the concentration of oxygen in air will have decreased from 20.9 to 19.5%. Reducing the oxygen concentration from 20.9% down to 19.5% is equal to a 6.7% reduction in the oxygen level. -- Thanks to thanks to Dr. Roy Jensen for assistance with these details.
    What are the effects on humans (and other animals) of reduction of the oxygen levels in air? At sea level, breathing air in which the O2 level has fallen to 16% percent is equivalent to being at the top of a 9,200-foot mountain - close to the level at which many people will experience shortness of breath while walking. 12% Oxygen in air at sea level corresponds to breathing normal air at an elevation of about 17,400 feet.

    What are the HEALTH EFFECTS of CO2 Exposure? - Potential Health Hazards of Toxic Gas Exposure

    Hazard evaluation consists of comparing measurements of exposure (or dose) with exposures (doses) known to be safe or known to be hazardous. For the most part, because of biological variation, "no effect" levels are much easier to estimate than are "first effect" or other levels indicative of injury.
    Toxic levels of carbon dioxide: According to occupational exposure and controlled atmosphere research into CO2 toxicology, CO2 is hazardous via direct toxicity at levels above 5%, concentrations not encountered in nature [except perhaps at or near an active volcano or at water-logged soils]. At these high levels there is risk of death from carbon dioxide poisoning. At lower levels there may health effects and there certainly are complaints of exposure at lower levels.
    In the preceding section of this article, at [SIZE=-1]CO2 POISONING SYMPTOMS[/SIZE] we discussed symptoms of carbon dioxide exposure. On specific individuals, the effects of exposure to elevated levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) vary by individual and with exposure level, and exposure duration, ranging from drowsiness (perhaps at levels over 1000 ppm continuous exposure) to the toxic effects listed just above.
    How might CO2 accumulate at a dangerous level in a residential property?

    Carbon dioxide, CO2, from a small leak is unlikely to be dangerous, as it can be expected to be diluted with fresh air mixing in a building. But there can be exceptions in which carbon dioxide may accumulate and reach higher, even dangerous concentrations indoors.

    • Flue gas spillage: in an enclosed gas-fired boiler room with a deficient chimney draft can produce high levels of CO2. In a case in which there is sufficient combustion air, say from a direct air duct to the gas burner, the system may not be producing more dangerous carbon monoxide (CO), but the heating system may nonetheless spilling flue gases with a high level of CO2 into the room from a defective chimney. Since CO2 being more dense than air it may accumulate in an enclosed basement, crawl space, or boiler room. Alternatively, because the CO2 in this case is a heating system exhaust, it may be warmer than surrounding air and it may rise upwards in the building into the living space. For this reason when we measure for the presence of flue gases, even if the gas is one which is "supposed to be" heavier than air, we may measure both high and low in the test area.
    • Soil sources of high carbon dioxide in buildings: NIOSH reports on an investigation of complaints by homeowners of blurred vision, breathlessness, and "episodic mild confusion" caused by exposure to from elevated carbon dioxide levels in a finished basement and an adjacent crawlspace. West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection detected carbon dioxide levels up to 9.5 percent in the basement and CO2levels up to 11 percent in the crawlspace grave, with 12 percent in the basement floor drain (suggesting a soil source of CO2 in a home in West Virginia home, according to a NIOSH report. CO2 levels in the soil surrounding the home were measured at levels up to 8 percent. The probable source of the high CO2 levels in the soils under and around this home were probably due to [coal] mining activities.
    Are the effects of breathing CO2 permanent?

    Any detrimental effects of low-level CO2 exposure are reversible, including the long-term metabolic compensation required by chronic exposure to 3% CO2. -- "A Review of Human Health and Ecological Risks due to CO2 Exposure," American Geophysical Union, Spring Meeting 2001, abstract #H31C-13, Hepple, R. P.; Benson, S. M., 05/2001.
    More Reading:
    "Gases: Toxic gases, indoor exposure levels, testing, identification" additional information on gas exposure detection, toxicity, and remedy for a wide range of toxic and other gases.
    OXYGEN - O2

    More Information

    InspectAPedia ® Home & Site Map
    Contact Us [/SIZE] What are the Allowable Limits of CO2 EXPOSURE - Carbon dioxide exposure limits PEL and TLV set by OSHA and NIOSH

    Carbon dioxide is regulated for diverse purposes but not as a toxic substance.

    • The U.S. EPA CO2 exposure limits: The U.S. EPA recommends a maximum concentration of Carbon dioxide CO2 of 1000 ppm (0.1%) for continuous exposure.
    • ASHRAE standard 62-1989 recommends an indoor air ventilation standard of 20 cfm per person of outdoor air or a CO2 level which is below 1000ppm.
    • NIOSH CO2 exposure limits: NIOSH recommends a maximum concentration of carbon dioxide of 10,000 ppm or 1% (for the workplace, for a 10-hr work shift with a ceiling of 3.0% or 30,000 ppm for any 10-minute period). These are the highest threshold limit value (TLV) and permissible exposure limit (PEL) assigned to any material.
    • OSHA CO2 exposure limits: OSHA recommends a lowest oxygen concentration of 19.5% in the work place for a full work-shift exposure. As we calculated above, for the indoor workplace oxygen level to reach 19.5% (down from its normal 20.9% oxygen level in outdoor air) by displacement of oxygen by CO2, that is, to reduce the oxygen level by about 6%, the CO2 or carbon dioxide level would have to increase to about 1.4% 14,000 ppm.
    In summary, OSHA, NIOSH, and ACGIH occupational exposure standards are 0.5% CO2 (5,000 ppm) averaged over a 40 hour week, 3% (3,000 ppm) average for a short-term (15 minute) exposure [we discuss and define "short term exposure limits" STEL below], and 4% (40,000 ppm) as the maximum instantaneous limit considered immediately dangerous to life and health. All three of these exposure limit conditions must be satisfied, always and together.
    What laws regulate carbon dioxide exposure levels?

    Of the several industrial hygiene standards-setting groups in this country, the most important and/or most quoted are the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), and the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) but these are recommended standards, not laws.
    Standards promulgated by OSHA (called Permissible Exposure Limits or PELs) have the force of law. The other standards are advisory. However OSHA claims the power to force compliance with NIOSH "Recommended Standards" if it chooses to do so. (The main advantage of ACGIH Threshold Limit Values (TLVs) is that they are reviewed and updated annually; neither NIOSH nor OSHA updates its standards with any regular frequency.)
    NIOSH limits on Carbon Dioxide Exposure: NIOSH's recommended CO2 exposure limit for 15 minutes is 3 percent. A CO2 level of 4 percent is designated by NIOSH as immediately dangerous to life or health.
    OSHA limits on Carbon Dioxide Exposure: The U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Safety & Health Administration, OSHA, has set Permissible Exposure Limits for Carbon Dioxide in workplace atmospheres at 10,000 ppm of CO2 measured as a Time Weighted Average (TWA) level of exposure and OSHA has set 30,000 ppm of CO2 as a Short-Term Exposure Limit (STEL). OSHA has also set a Transitional Limit of 5,000 ppm CO2 exposure TWA. [OSHA's former limit for carbon dioxide was 5000 ppm as an 8-hour TWA.]
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    Dont forget to hit me w/some +Rep, BTW!
    FlipDV likes this.

    FlipDV Well-Known Member

    Will do, can you pump out some info on Carbon Monoxide then? :P
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon monoxide gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide (CO2). Carbon monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it difficult for people to detect.
    Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas, and CO poisoning is the most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries.[1] Symptoms of mild poisoning include headaches, vertigo, and flu-like effects; larger exposures can lead to significant toxicity of the central nervous system, heart and even death. Following poisoning, long-term sequelae often occur. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus of a pregnant woman.
    The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not yet fully understood, but hemoglobin, myoglobin, and mitochondrial cytochrome oxidase are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely consists of administering 100% oxygen or hyperbaric oxygen therapy, although the optimum treatment remains controversial.[2] Domestic carbon monoxide poisoning can be prevented by early detection with the use of household carbon monoxide detectors.


    [edit] Sources

    Common sources of CO that may lead to poisoning include house fires, furnaces or heaters, wood-burning stoves, motor vehicle exhaust, propane-fueled equipment such as portable camping stoves, ice resurfacers,[3] forklifts,[4] and gasoline-powered tools such as high-pressure washers, concrete cutting saws, power trowels, floor buffers, and welders used in buildings or semi-enclosed spaces.[5] CO poisoning can also occur in scuba diving due to faulty or badly sited diving air compressors. Generators and propulsion engines on boats, especially houseboats, have resulted in fatal carbon monoxide exposures.[6] Another source is exposure to the organic solvent methylene chloride, which is metabolized to CO by the body.[7]
    Concentration Source 0.1 ppm Natural background atmosphere level (MOPITT) 0.5 to 5 ppm Average background level in homes[8] 5 to 15 ppm Levels near properly adjusted gas stoves in homes[8] 100 to 200 ppm Mexico City central area from automobiles[9] 5,000 ppm Chimney of a home wood fire[10] 7,000 ppm Undiluted warm car exhaust[10] 30,000 ppm Undiluted cigarette smoke[10]
    [edit] Symptoms

    Early symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning such as headaches, nausea, and fatigue, are often mistaken for the flu because the deadly gas goes undetected in a home. Prolonged exposure can lead to brain damage and even death.

    [edit] Acute

    The main manifestations of poisoning develop in the organ systems most dependent on oxygen use: the central nervous system and the heart. The clinical manifestations include tachycardia and hypertension, and central nervous system symptoms such as headache, dizziness, confusion, convulsions, and unconsciousness. Poisoning may also produce myocardial ischemia, atrial fibrillation, pneumonia, pulmonary edema, hyperglycemia, muscle necrosis, acute renal failure, skin lesions, visual and auditory problems, and respiratory arrest.[11]
    One of the major concerns following CO poisoning is the severe neurological manifestations that may occur days or even weeks after an acute poisoning. Common problems encountered are difficulty with higher intellectual functions and short-term memory, dementia, irritability, gait disturbance, speech disturbances, parkinson-like syndromes, cortical blindness, and depression, which can even occur in those accidentally exposed who do not have pre-existing depression.[12] These delayed sequelae occur in approximately 15 percent of severely poisoned patients after an interval of 2 to 28 days. It is difficult to predict who may develop delayed sequelae; however, advancing age, loss of consciousness while poisoned, and initial neurological abnormalities may indicate a greater chance of developing delayed symptoms. According to the Philadelphia poison control hotline, sequelae are generally not anticipated when exposure is not severe enough to result in loss of consciousness.

    [edit] Chronic

    Long term, repeated exposures present a greater risk to persons with coronary heart disease and in pregnant patients.[13] Chronic exposure may increase the incidence of cardiovascular symptoms in some workers, such as motor vehicle examiners, firefighters, and welders. Patients often complain of persistent headaches, lightheadedness, depression, confusion, and nausea/vomiting. Upon removal from exposure, the symptoms usually resolve themselves.[14]

    [edit] Toxicity

    Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas, although patients may demonstrate varied clinical manifestations with different outcomes, even under similar exposure conditions.[15][16] Toxicity is also increased by several factors, including: increased activity and rate of ventilation, pre-existing cerebral or cardiovascular disease, reduced cardiac output, anemia or other hematological disorders, decreased barometric pressure, and high metabolic rate.
    Carbon monoxide is life-threatening to humans and other aerobic forms of life, as inhaling even relatively small amounts of it can lead to hypoxic injury, neurological damage, and possibly death. A concentration of as little as 0.04% (400 parts per million) carbon monoxide in the air can be fatal. The gas is especially dangerous because it is not easily detected by human senses. One report concluded that carbon monoxide exposure can lead to significant loss of lifespan after exposure due to damage to the heart muscle.[17]
    The effects produced by carbon monoxide in relation to ambient concentration in parts per million are listed below:[citation needed]
    Concentration Symptoms 35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure 100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours 200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours 400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours 1,600 ppm (0.16%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes. Insensible within two hours. 3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes. 6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Death in less than 20 minutes. 12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2-3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.

    FlipDV Well-Known Member

    Know how much PPM is in a car?
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    7,000 PPM from a car!

    FlipDV Well-Known Member

    Thankee :), I'd + rep but well.. can't :P
    Well, see yeah in half an hour.. or not.

    FlipDV Well-Known Member

    (I'm kidding btw o_O)
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    Dude, I really do hope that you need this info to AVOID dying from gas poisoning.

    GregD88 Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure you just helped a guy kill himself xD
    Where in the hell am I?

    Where in the hell am I? Well-Known Member

    Well, fuk! Thats not a good thing! I swear to gawd that I am trying to help him AVOID too much exposure, I was just assuming that's why he was asking! I jus wanna help ppl grow better weed, not kill themselves:cuss::wall:

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