How do you become a better person, and why should you?

"We could be completely wrong, or right... so to say with certainty, that our ideas we have about the universe and reality are certainly true... is certainly a lie."

-Zs

fear keeps people in check.. plain and simple.. no repercussions for actions= free for all

fear = be it religion or law... or both.

you keep in line and adhere to what society allows...

eye exaggerate said:

...I think we become better people by being attentive and observing our own actions. Feels good to stop looking at other people like they are the ones that are fckd up. We're all fckd up, to each his own degree. When that inner observation really exposes a lot of bs we have still kicking around inside, it can be painful. But, after a while you've changed some things about you that needed changing / the world is a better place because you did your part.


Now, keep that going for the rest of your natural life Not always easy.


Actually, I think this is one of my reasons for 'believing'. I know that the universe is further than I can reach (in a tangible sense), so (my) reason says stay within arms length, reach in and explore that universe. It's just me I guess, and obviously takes no stab at the more scientific minded.

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If you dont mind me asking Eye, why is it that you chose the Christian faith? You are very open minded to all ideas and beliefs and Im assuming you take what you can get from other religions and spiritual views, but what is it about Christianity that appeals to you more than the rest of the beliefs out there? You are unlike any person of faith that I have encountered. Usually when people take the path you have they depart from their original spiritual views and dont claim to be apart of any group. Are there more like you? lol I know this is quite the question, I appreciate what ever answer you give me.

Instead of disregarding one superstition for another, like you... he decided to keep the one he was indoctrinated with, and "improved" it with his own (and others) imagination.

Zaehet Strife said:

Instead of disregarding one superstition for another, like you... he decided to keep the one he was indoctrinated with, and "improved" it with his own (and others) imagination.

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Something tells me Eye is going to have a different answer. But I dont know . I disregard nothing completely. I have a somewhat orderly hodge-podge of many spiritual views that includes the religion that I was barely indoctrinated in, which is Christianity.

Replace the word "barely" with "ultimately" and i would agree.

Even though your superstitions have changed, they have merely been replaced from one, to another.

I guess you can call my views as one superstition. It is my own though. Took what I can get from what I studied and put in a few of my own ideas, I belong to no group. The one member "Woo" Tang Clan lol.

Zaehet Strife said:

Instead of disregarding one superstition for another, like you... he decided to keep the one he was indoctrinated with, and "improved" it with his own (and others) imagination.

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...heh. Strife, thing is - when you say I was indoctrinated, you take a swipe at my family and culture. There are few ignorant sheep in my family (not being a dck, btw, telling it like it is and asking for simple respect)

nb: I'm not saying 'swipe' like you're being a dck, to be clear! I appreciate your input.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

If you dont mind me asking Eye, why is it that you chose the Christian faith? You are very open minded to all ideas and beliefs and Im assuming you take what you can get from other religions and spiritual views, but what is it about Christianity that appeals to you more than the rest of the beliefs out there? You are unlike any person of faith that I have encountered. Usually when people take the path you have they depart from their original spiritual views and dont claim to be apart of any group. Are there more like you? lol I know this is quite the question, I appreciate what ever answer you give me.

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...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it. It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.

eye exaggerate said:

...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it. It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.

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The hinge between belief and faith. I can choose my beliefs, but my faith is beyond such tinkering. cn

eye exaggerate said:

...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it. It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.

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I had a christian background as well, just as many, many others did too. So i don't understand how you can't not keep it, although i do understand how difficult it is to rid yourself of it.

Cn, i don't understand why you think someone cannot choose what to have faith in? Or is it just you, or am i just reading it wrong?

Zaehet, that is one of my deep insights (or self-delusions) about the nature of faith. I realized when grappling with the really big questions many years ago ... that I could influence my beliefs to the point of changing them outright, but I also concluded that I have a basic Gestalt of how the world works, and it is too deep for access by reason or passion.
That deep conviction, my cognitive "firmware", I label faith, as it is beyond either analysis or falsification. It is a somewhat stricter definition than the common one, but I still find it compelling.
I am wondering if this makes me an accidental Taoist. cn

First of all there is no such thing as good or bad, you define whats "good or bad" from your own personal experiences throughout life. Thats why people like Hitler and Mit Romney could sleep at night because they honestly believe there is nothing "wrong" with their ideas, simply because none of their previous experiences in life have related those intentions to "bad".

Its no different than a little kid in Afghanistan screaming "kill americans!". To that little kid it is the correct thing to do because its what he was taught from an infant, therefore it is not the little kids fault at all, if anything its his guardians fault, BUT the guardian may ALSO be subject to the exact same upbringing.

cannabineer said:

Zaehet, that is one of my deep insights (or self-delusions) about the nature of faith. I realized when grappling with the really big questions many years ago ... that I could influence my beliefs to the point of changing them outright, but I also concluded that I have a basic Gestalt of how the world works, and it is too deep for access by reason or passion.
That deep conviction, my cognitive "firmware", I label faith, as it is beyond either analysis or falsification. It is a somewhat stricter definition than the common one, but I still find it compelling.
I am wondering if this makes me an accidental Taoist. cn

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But don't you ever doubt, and wonder if what you have faith in... may not be true?

Zaehet Strife said:

But don't you ever doubt that what you have faith in may not be true?

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If I am able to doubt a thing, I automatically classify it "belief". cn

cannabineer said:

If I am able to doubt a thing, I automatically classify it "belief". cn

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So you are saying it is literally impossible for you to allow your mind to doubt what you have faith in?

And if so, would you explain to me why?

I don't know if I can explain, Zaehet.
Take for example my faith that random chance and not an intelligent warden is behind the continued unfolding of the Cosmos.
Or my certainty that we humans see God and spirit everywhere because it's in our natures.
If I try to question either of those, I come up against a deep knowing of "that's the way things are!" that inhibits the passionate engaged part of my inner questioner ... leaving only dispassionate disengaged pure reason.

Are the things in my faith pouch true to me? Definitely! Are they true to all? How can I know? Ultimately I am a subjectivist, maybe even a solipsist.

Now, if compelling evidence came to light proving (or strongly suggesting; the two form a continuum imo) either of those articles of faith incorrect, my firmware would rearrange to accommodate. At the risk of seeming specious (but actually expressing something that strikes me as profound): I have faith in truth. cn

cannabineer said:

If I try to question either of those, I come up against a deep knowing of "that's the way things are!" that inhibits the passionate engaged part of my inner questioner ... leaving only dispassionate disengaged pure reason.

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That was a great explanation by the way, thanks for that, but one more question.

When you say the word "knowing" do you mean the word "feeling"?

Also, i dont understand how someone can have faith that that random chance and not an intelligent warden is behind the continued unfolding of the Cosmos, and faith that we humans see God and spirit everywhere because it's in our natures...

when there always exists the possibility that those two ideas could wrong.

In your mind, is there no room for the possibility that you could be mistaken about these two ideas?

I'm sorry for badgering you with questions, but i am sincerely interested in what you have to say. It means a lot.

I cannot help but feel that it runs deeper than feeling. Most of my feelings are at a shallow-enough level that I can pull them up and subject them to rational review.
That may be circular as all hell however.
I am plainly up against the boundaries of my capacity for self-perception.

I will relate a fragmented account of an epiphanic moment I had as a young adult.
I experienced something (the details are not relevant) that shook me to the foundations and induced ... tectonics ... in the seat of my faith. For a very short interval I had sight of that deepest part of me, the seat of identity, the bit at the center to which the concept of "I myself! I am here!" is tied. The seat of faith. I have an appreciation for those who would call it the soul and assign to it a certain ... autonomy.

It was an experience of a psychedelic nature, both in its utter profundity and its inexpressibility.
And since then, the only time I have come credibly close to that moment was with the assistance of actual full-strength psychedelics.

But the take-home bit for me that did firm up into an article of faith (lol!) was that the seat of my faith is always below my reach (but can be challenged by externals) and almost always below my ability to even sense.
I am trying very hard to capture a part of the essence of that experience with words. they are not up to the task, and I have spent a lifetime mastering them. cn