Homemade Lactobacillus Serum

greenghost420 said:

i tried making a batch but got black mold. that normal? i chucked it and am gonna attempt again real soon..

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did it smell like alcohol? not all LAB solutions are full of homofermentative bacteria [which convert lactose to Lactic acid and Nad+] some LAB's are heterofermentative and will produce ascetic acid - methane and Co2.....although it has been thought that nearly 85% of identified LAB species are homofermentative [ie not alcoholic]

To the OP:
I have a mother stash going on 5 years...... and you might also try pitching other things into the milk vs. the rice wash...like homemade hot pepper sauce, pickle juice, butter milk, homemade sourdough starter....a few drops of these examples that are alive and not processed to kill the microlife, will give you similar results, but will cultivate different types of LAB, not just the epiphyic versions found only on a certain kind of rice....many kinds of sugar.....might even look into pentose sugar only LAB's too....


Also included a pdf for the really brave and dedicated

no stinky like parmesan cheese lol

Get Molasses n you can keep it for a long time and make a shitload of tea's.

Run no-till soil and all of these beneficial microbes will arrive- like it or not. The problem with most soil grows is that they are discarded after one use. Older soils will have all of these beneficials

so if i have good recycled soil, i dont need lab?

IMHO, no. It's redundant. It's best used when starting a soil, but in time all of the microbes will simply land on the soil and quickly set up shop.

^ sorry but that is a bad generalization Rrog....what Lactic acid Bacteria are present in the aerobic soil?
Two different themes trying to achieve the same harmony...one way is anaerobic and the other is aerobic...
Definitiely not the same in terms of End Products,
.........but yes still much to be gleaned [or is there? ]
but Way too early to make generalized statements....

I think you easily can go without LAB in growing........ but Redundant? Citations please?

Lactobascillus is a facultative anaerobe.

Obviously you're collecting samples from the air and then amplifying in Lactose. You're collecting the same samples on your soil. Both aerobic environments. Both the soil and the jar are receiving the exact same microbes.

Growers are grossly divided into two camps. Those that feel they can improve on nature, and those that don't.

Rrog said:

Lactobascillus is a facultative anaerobe.

Obviously you're collecting samples from the air and then amplifying in Lactose. You're collecting the same samples on your soil. Both aerobic environments. Both the soil and the jar are receiving the exact same microbes.

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Agree to disagree....while some are, some are also epiphytic and sometimes specific aka species of rice used frequently as a medium....

The thing I disagree on is that yes you are collecting aerobically, but then you purposely put the LAB into anaerobic environment to create Lactic acid....anaerobic conditions are present at times in aerated compost, so this can occur, but it is not purposely done for that type of situation....

You are taking the facultative organsim yes, but then depriving O, on purpose and for a specific amount of time [which varies in compost] and then re-oxidizing the resultant enzymes, acids and other proteins....they MAY look similar but chemically they are world's apart....

They have to use different enzymatic cycles, to achieve similar outputs which result in different chemicals....that's the kicker, they both provide a larger consirtia of microbiology to worth with....

We haven't even got into what role Anaerobsis may play on other types of facultative organsisms beyond just bacteria....

Rrog said:

Growers are grossly divided into two camps. Those that feel they can improve on nature, and those that don't.

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My feeling is, some wan't to understand chemistry and others disdain it.....that is NOT a slight pointed in your direction at all...

I just want to mention any claim I make I will back up with a citation....I think that it is, that important, not to misrepresent this process....

I really agree with most of your line of thinking but have to disagree about similarity or redundancy...how is that possible if we are strictly looking at aerobic vs anaerobic waste essentially?

I think the OP's LAB serum is aerobic and I think evolution has done the job for us already. A also think guys like to tweak. It's in our nature.

Just expressing the opinion I've posted a hundred times before. I have dual BS majors in Bio and Chem, so I'm not thinking I'm afraid of chemistry. Perhaps your comment wasn't directed at me.

I embrace the microbes in their natural environment. My own microbes, locally dominant.

Anyway, carry on with what you enjoy.

Rrog said:

I think the OP's LAB serum is aerobic and I think evolution has done the job for us already. A also think guys like to tweak. It's in our nature.

Just expressing the opinion I've posted a hundred times before. I have dual BS majors in Bio and Chem, so I'm not thinking I'm afraid of chemistry. Perhaps your comment wasn't directed at me.

I embrace the microbes in their natural environment. My own microbes, locally dominant.

Anyway, carry on with what you enjoy.

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cant hurt to drench or foliar , right? lol

Nope - Sure can't hurt.

No-Till FTW

Rrog said:

I think the OP's LAB serum is aerobic and I think evolution has done the job for us already. A also think guys like to tweak. It's in our nature.

Just expressing the opinion I've posted a hundred times before. I have dual BS majors in Bio and Chem, so I'm not thinking I'm afraid of chemistry. Perhaps your comment wasn't directed at me.

I embrace the microbes in their natural environment. My own microbes, locally dominant.

Anyway, carry on with what you enjoy.

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Are you suggesting that LAB are able to make Lactic Acid in an aerobic state due to being facultative?
That would be game changing...!

The plant gets what it needs, and has for eons without dribbling lactic acid. These things are already done in mature soil or are simply not needed. You might come to this conclusion someday as well. The deeper you know, the more these become self-evident.

Rrog said:

The plant gets what it needs, and has for eons without dribbling lactic acid. These things are already done in mature soil or are simply not needed. You might come to this conclusion someday as well. The deeper you know, the more these become self-evident.

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You didn't answer the question and plants don't produce Lactic Acid.....plant parts [sugars] are used to make Lactic Acid, is that what you are referring to....?

If I lack understanding, then I ask questions, why not answer the question if you have the answer....that is how I seek a better understanding or enlightenment...I try not to guess....you seem to skipping some things, which either means you are being trite or I don't know.....and I respect your work too over at IC.....but your answers seem to digress to ambuiguity....tell me how this works out in chemistry...

I guess that is what I am asking, especially if that is your background

I'm sorry you're offended. You seem to be, with the droll sarcasm. That's fine. I hope you continue with your fermentations.

Remember you're not finding or providing a single thing the plant needs that's it's not already getting, unless it's not needed in the first place. You are having fun, however.

Rrog said:

I'm sorry you're offended. You seem to be, with the droll sarcasm. That's fine. I hope you continue with your fermentations.

Remember you're not finding or providing a single thing the plant needs that's it's not already getting, unless it's not needed in the first place. You are having fun, however.

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Agree, but what does that have to do with the process of fermentation that is after all the makeup of my stand....I don't disagree that LAB is NOT needed as I clearly stated that before .....

I am only interested in understanding the chemical processes to denote anecdotal reports... I am blowing my mind up researching this stuff...I keep bugging because maybe your background can relate more info, after all that is one way of learning?

Naturally occurring lacticacid bacteria(LAB)ferment hexose
sugars, such as glucose, by oxidizing NADH generated
during glycolysis, with pyruvate serving as the electron
acceptor, to form lactic acid as the major product (Figure 2).
These organisms have been used to produce lactic acid for
food preservation, food packaging, drug delivery com-
pounds, medical implants, cosmetic ingredients, and bio-
degradable plastic (Agrawal and Bhalla, 2003; Lee et al.,
2004; Ray and Bousmina, 2005). Lactic acid exists in two
enantiomeric forms, L-(+) and D-()), and the ratio of the two
isomeric forms influence the physicochemical properties of
the polylactide polymer (PLA; Narayanan et al., 2004). LAB
usually possess two genes that encode lactate dehydro-
genase enzymes (LDH), which catalyse formation of either
L-(+) or D-()) lactic acid (Hofvendahl and Hans-Hagerdal,
2000; Makarova et al., 2006). The ratio of the L-(+) to D-())
forms of lactic acid in the fermentation broth depends on the
level of expression of these two genes. Although all LAB
ferment glucose and other hexoses, their ability to ferment
pentoses (xylose, arabinose, etc.) is generally limited.
Lactococcus lactis and Lactococcus casei, as well as
Lactobacillus plantarum and Lactobacillus buchneri, are
among those LAB with this capability

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Rrog said:

Lactobascillus is a facultative anaerobe.

Obviously you're collecting samples from the air and then amplifying in Lactose. You're collecting the same samples on your soil. Both aerobic environments. Both the soil and the jar are receiving the exact same microbes.

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You said it yourself. This method is amplifying what natural microbes are already available. Just like an act tea provides the perfect enviroment for aerobic microbes to bread, this method provides an extra hospitable home for lacto bacteria to bread and populate, without competition from other soil life.