High PH signs, symptoms and correcting...Pictorial!! A must read for newb'z

Amend with dolomite lime from the start and wont have those problems.

ogilthorpe said:

I'd be surprised that MG has such a high PH out of the bag, but assuming this was the case I'd suggest the grower repot or amend with peat / perlite / promix.

I'm a newish grower and have never PH'd anything, and my plants look great and my harvest have been solid. Pot is insanely easy to grow.

IME 95% of all plant issues in these forums are related to over feeding and or temps, my guess is very few soil grows have PH issues. If a soil grow is having PH issues best advice it to amend or repot to a better soil.

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yes repot and amend. peat, which has a ph of 5-5.5 alone, promix, perlite and vermiculite which both have good properties to them. Lava rock also is great for a big root system. Myco's is a very good way to get a "living soil" that strengthens the roots and soil structure.

If a new grower doesnt start with good soil, which most dont unless they research first , they will have unhappy plants. I see this time and time again at my doctors office where I teach a class of caregivers how to grow top quality medical cannabis.

Good water is also important to getting healthy plants. I watered my plants with city water that was left out for a week or so. It had so much chlorimide in it, it was killing the nitrogen fixing bacteria and mycelium that I put in the soil, changing the biology and thus, changing the ph. The ph would change with every watering, very unstable.

I have since been watering with snow water/rain water and they are ALL looking great. very stable ph now I am using good water. Some city folk probably have to use ro or spring water to get healthy plants. Mineral water is the best water ive ever used, got the idea from kc!! "Its like adding straight c02 to the roots." as Kc Brains says. He has done testing of mineral water on cannabis grows. It gets pricy but will pay for it self 10x over.

glad to hear some positive input. Keep it coming!!

Great thread----

Here's what I know about soil and PH. The starting PH of the soil is important, I always stabilize at 6.5 And I know that soil and microbes go hand in hand and must be in balance in order to achieve any respectable organic yield. The dominance of bacteria has to be balanced with fungal. MJ actually prefers and gets most benefit from bacteria, but too much of a dominance in one or the other will influence a stronger change in PH. This is also dependent on which element the plant is actively up taking more of and sending acidic/alkaline exudates down the roots.

Once MJ senses the presence of microbes, it's life purpose/role has added 1 more task, and that's feeding the microbes. Its a "one hand washes the other type deal". The soils contents will dictate the microbe activity and diversity. For example-- mycorizhal fungi will not germinate in the presence of high P. Once the spore's sense a depletion of P, they activate and bond with the plant and assist in Pk05 availability. This relationship has to be formed early(before flower) if not, byebye benefit. The higher the diversity the more reliable your soils buffering ability is and remains. No true need to "pre-PH" water then, but I still do at 6.5. Once in a while it could be 5.0 others it can be 7.5 (depends if im pressed for time)

This is another example of why we don't stabilize AACT PH----it don't matter. BUT-- if your not true organic and you use fertilizer salts, yes you will benefit from the organic tea but without feeding the soil, the plant cant make enough carbs to share with the incredibly high population of freshly brewed/added tea, and at some point between waterings/crop tending a dominance in bact is most likely to occur and that drops PH. (FYI bacteria reproduce/feed at a much faster rate than fungi consuming/ hogging the shared carbs from the plant, thus minimizing fungal buffering/balancing)

WOW 1/2 of my fuckin post disapered----BFS

HEY sorry off topic here---- anyone having problems when they type. Shit is fucking scrambling my words. An losing 1/2 my post. Sory but m not gonn repeat all that. im sre yo all get my pnt. SEE what m talkin about------ it likethe fuckigwebite is choosing which letters it let my keyboard type. Shit mabey it' my keyboard

tikitoker said:

Great thread----

Here's what I know about soil and PH. The starting PH of the soil is important, I always stabilize at 6.5 And I know that soil and microbes go hand in hand and must be in balance in order to achieve any respectable organic yield. The dominance of bacteria has to be balanced with fungal. MJ actually prefers and gets most benefit from bacteria, but too much of a dominance in one or the other will influence a stronger change in PH. This is also dependent on which element the plant is actively up taking more of and sending acidic/alkaline exudates down the roots.

Once MJ senses the presence of microbes, it's life purpose/role has added 1 more task, and that's feeding the microbes. Its a "one hand washes the other type deal". The soils contents will dictate the microbe activity and diversity. For example-- mycorizhal fungi will not germinate in the presence of high P. Once the spore's sense a depletion of P, they activate and bond with the plant and assist in Pk05 availability. This relationship has to be formed early(before flower) if not, byebye benefit. The higher the diversity the more reliable your soils buffering ability is and remains. No true need to "pre-PH" water then, but I still do at 6.5. Once in a while it could be 5.0 others it can be 7.5 (depends if im pressed for time)

This is another example of why we don't stabilize AACT PH----it don't matter. BUT-- if your not true organic and you use fertilizer salts, yes you will benefit from the organic tea but without feeding the soil, the plant cant make enough carbs to share with the incredibly high population of freshly brewed/added tea, and at some point between waterings/crop tending a dominance in bact is most likely to occur and that drops PH. (FYI bacteria reproduce/feed at a much faster rate than fungi consuming/ hogging the shared carbs from the plant, thus minimizing fungal buffering/balancing)

Click to expand...

great info tiki!! suks 1/2 of its gone. Its easy for most to read and understand exactly what your talking about and describing here, on the other hand its sad to say most will read, disregard, and forget everything they just read 5 min ago, and say some thing like ph never changes in soil. Never???? never changes in soil. I cant even belive how an "experienced grower" has no idea how this changes the ph. yes exactaly, if there is no balance the ph will swing low to high, It may recover after a few days true, and I guess thats where "the soil buffers back to 6.5 no mater what"( well not really) comes into play. I maintain a correct ph to keep my plants at their fastest rate of cell reproduction. 2-3 days is important to me in my grow, may not be to some. but if I water with 4.0 water, which roots organic fert is, the plants come to a screeching hault. growth stops, leaves do not get any bigger for a few days, stems do not get any longer/thicker. about 3 days later the soil buffers and the ph is back to neutral range and the plant starts to grow again. This "down time" every other watering is unacceptable to me.

I did not understand alot of this up until about 2 years ago when I wanted to grow mushrooms. Bacteria and fungi have a love hate relationship. SOme fungi is delicate and easly overtakin by bacteria. On the other hand, I have had a bacteria contaminated mushroom grow that I have discarded in the compost pile, 2 months later guess what, the fungi has come back with vengence, and there were mushrooms everywhere. Bacteria hates a high ph, anything over 7 and it starts to have a problem. fungi and bacteria like the same ph range, 5.5-6.0. Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic ph as do most mycelium including mold. Bacteria loves a low ph coco has a low ph as does peat. Bacteria and mycelium love coir and peat and will very easly grow in them. Coffee is very acidic and will breed all types of bacteria but will very easily kill off mycelium.
gypsum is a good food for mycelium, it contains sulfur and calcium both of which aid in reproduction.

And as you said, If I got this right?? The roots of a plant, the type of bacteria and mycelium will create a ph balance. Kill off the mycelium and bacteria takes over and pushes the ph down. Mycelium itself will also drop ph by the release of metabolites into the soil dropping the ph to around 5.5.

Some bacteria is thermophilic (heat loving) and produces energy in the form of heat. Some mycelium also likes heat and has to be within a certain range for it to grow and reproduce. Provided enough food, water and oxygen, microbes will grow. Different microbes use different compounds and grow at different temperatures. thermophilic fungi grow at lower temperatures. so temp. is also an important role in the correct balance of bacteria and mycelium.

Now I think I can say this thread is going in the right direction, thanks tk toker

sativa indica pits said:

great info tiki!! suks 1/2 of its gone. Its easy for most to read and understand exactly what your talking about and describing here, on the other hand its sad to say most will read, disregard, and forget everything they just read 5 min ago, and say some thing like ph never changes in soil. Never???? never changes in soil. I cant even belive how an "experienced grower" has no idea how this changes the ph. yes exactaly, if there is no balance the ph will swing low to high, It may recover after a few days true, and I guess thats where "the soil buffers back to 6.5 no mater what"( well not really) comes into play. I maintain a correct ph to keep my plants at their fastest rate of cell reproduction. 2-3 days is important to me in my grow, may not be to some. but if I water with 4.0 water, which roots organic fert is, the plants come to a screeching hault. growth stops, leaves do not get any bigger for a few days, stems do not get any longer/thicker. about 3 days later the soil buffers and the ph is back to neutral range and the plant starts to grow again. This "down time" every other watering is unacceptable to me.

I did not understand alot of this up until about 2 years ago when I wanted to grow mushrooms. Bacteria and fungi have a love hate relationship. SOme fungi is delicate and easly overtakin by bacteria. On the other hand, I have had a bacteria contaminated mushroom grow that I have discarded in the compost pile, 2 months later guess what, the fungi has come back with vengence, and there were mushrooms everywhere. Bacteria hates a high ph, anything over 7 and it starts to have a problem. fungi and bacteria like the same ph range, 5.5-6.0. Mushroom mycelium prefers an acidic ph as do most mycelium including mold. Bacteria loves a low ph coco has a low ph as does peat. Bacteria and mycelium love coir and peat and will very easly grow in them. Coffee is very acidic and will breed all types of bacteria but will very easily kill off mycelium.
gypsum is a good food for mycelium, it contains sulfur and calcium both of which aid in reproduction.

And as you said, If I got this right?? The roots of a plant, the type of bacteria and mycelium will create a ph balance. Kill off the mycelium and bacteria takes over and pushes the ph down. Mycelium itself will also drop ph by the release of metabolites into the soil dropping the ph to around 5.5.

Some bacteria is thermophilic (heat loving) and produces energy in the form of heat. Some mycelium also likes heat and has to be within a certain range for it to grow and reproduce. Provided enough food, water and oxygen, microbes will grow. Different microbes use different compounds and grow at different temperatures. thermophilic fungi grow at lower temperatures. so temp. is also an important role in the correct balance of bacteria and mycelium.

Now I think I can say this thread is going in the right direction, thanks tk toker

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Dude, when it appears that the whole world is wrong, and only you have the correct answers, it just MIGHT be time to re-evaluate your paradigm. Get your GED, then go back to Chemistry 101, Biology 101, and Botany 101. Study hard, then come back and tell folks they are wrong. Don't get half the answers, make certain you at least understand the concept before expounding your intelligence.
Your chest beating "Hey, look at me, I'm great. Just ask me, I'll tell ya!" approach to this is tiring. You have at LEAST one other thread where you try and expound how smart you are. Pedantic isn't smart, it's immature.

ok dude. I remember you told me... ph never changes in soil right....... how do you figure I have to go back to school, in what fuktd up part of the earth do you live upon that #1 you come to my thread, tell me im wrong, dont know what the hell im talking about, and then say some crazy shit like soil ph never changes?

So did you complete my experiment I layed out for you?

water you plants with wood ash ever watering and see what happens?

Every soil is 6.5 right? just perfect for cannabis, is this what you are saying? Why not take all the years experiance you have and post something usefull besides ...


ahhh...durpe durp your wong,, ph doesnt matter,,,, soil ph never changes.....you cant change soil ph,,,bla bla bla... post some information worth reading.

Im sorry you dont like me because i brag it up...... oh well.... get over it, I have giving you at least 3 situations when ph becomes a problem but you havent giving me one answer or solution to the problem.....why?

#1 water you plants with wood ash every watering. why do the plants look like this?
#2 I planted my seed in 8.3 soil now what do I do?
#3 I watered my plants with, chloramine, or maybe even chlorine, its killed everything in the soil except for my roots, my plant is dying what do I do?
#4 soil under a pine tree= acidic soil under blackberries=neutral is this wrong to say ph is different for different soils? have you ever planted pot in a pine grove? they do greeeat right? this is because the soil buffers... lol

thought u said you were out of here? you cant post any solutions to ph problems...

oh im wrong, yes your solution to the problem is soil will buffer, and will always become 6.5. let your soil buffer...... kinda like your brain is doing right now, and what my computer does from time to time.

And just because I post pics of my huge grows does not mean im saying hey!!!! look at mee, im so awesome, im never wrong. You are acting as if you are the all mighty plant god and you know every little aspect of how soil works and everything you post is 100% accurate and there is no need explaining why this is.... its just the way it is you can never change it, end of story, im out. remember ??

And I never said everyone in the whole world is wrong, only im right,,, never said that.

as I said before i cant belive how you of all people, make your user name jack herer, and tell me you have never planted in soil with ph problems, like next to a spruce tree. You really are a disgrace to jack herer, he is reading this shaking his head.

I guess you just arent the grower you say you are. what ever dude

sativa indica pits said:

ok dude. I remember you told me... ph never changes in soil right....... how do you figure I have to go back to school, in what fuktd up part of the earth do you live upon that #1 you come to my thread, tell me im wrong, dont know what the hell im talking about, and then say some crazy shit like soil ph never changes?

So did you complete my experiment I layed out for you?

water you plants with wood ash ever rld is wrong, only im right,,, never said that.

as I said before i cant belive how you of all people, make your user name jack herer, and tell me you have never planted in soil with ph problems, like next to a spruce tree. You really are a disgrace to jack herer, he is reading this shaking his head.

I guess you just arent the grower you say you are. what ever dude

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I just can't resist one more post, then I'm done. Your 3 situations (OK, 4) that will change the pH are, of course accurate. They will eventually change the pH. But they are not even valid situations, because NOBODY in their right mind would do any of those things except water with tap water, and that has never been a prob with me or anyone I personally know. Let me rephrase what I mean....under NORMAL circumstances, pH in soil remains stable regardless of the pH of whatever goes in, UNLESS what is going in is a stronger buffer and less resistant to pH change than the lime in the soil. You need to understand what a pH BUFFER is. Lime is a buffer, and is very resistant to pH change, therefore will bring the pH of whatever contacts it to it's value. Rain water/RO water, distilled water are NOT ph stable, and adding even a bit of an acid or base will cause a huge swing the pH values. A buffer (and wood ash would be a buffer) strongly resists change.
As to my thinking I'm all mighty plant god, no I do not think I'm god (just Jesus Christ!! LOL) But I DO however, have a good grasp of chemistry and biology.
Even attempting your experiment would be an excersize in futility. It's nothing more than how to kill off your crops by adding straight acids or bases. Set the pH of your soil, put your plants in there and don't go adding stupid shit to your soil. Anyone out there ever water daily with wood ash? Anyone out there ever water with chlorox? Or Muriatic acid? Anyone?? If you have, please feel free to chime in here.
Yes, in those circumstances you are gonna screw up the entire balance of your soil and kill off your crop. But it won't be pH that killed the crop, it will be whatever you put in there to screw things up in the first place. If your soil pH is 7 and you add acetic acid (vinegar) to lower it, immediately the pH from a sample at the root zone will show the effects of the vinegar. But an hour later, test another sample from the soil and it will be 7 again.
I've never had a pH issue because I set the pH of my soils at the onset, and I do not run out and try every new additive or amendment, nor do I put ANYTHING into my soil that I am not absolutely certain of. Newbies make mistakes all the time. I did. I devastated my first 2 crops listening to people like you who had only a glimmer of an idea about the subject on which they were advising. I had cal/mag issues and I listened to the "The pH is screwed up" crowd. I flushed, added pH up, in short did everything I read on that forum except what I should have been doing. All because the MAJORITY told me pH was the issue, when in reality I had a cal/mag def.

there that was easy. some good info . People do plant in soil that sucks then post help my plant. You as well as I both know soil is the foundation of all growth. Wood ash/lime are both stabile buffers. there are some many people who just thro some seed in some dirt and try to get bud, not that simple( some plants will grow just fine wild)

But im glad you came to the same conclusion as me in all the years ive been growing , ph can change and when an inexperienced grower dumps whatever in thier soil, they will have problems. Thats why I made the thread and have been so adamant about getting this across. its important to the new grower. If I had someone telling me every step of the way i would have never had a ph problem all those years ago. If I knew to put lime or wood ash in my soil, I wouldnt have had ph problems.

Please be carefull when you read a thread and then throw in ph wont change and you can not control it. I think I have made my point clear, if you add a stronger base or acid than what you have buffered the soil with, it will swing up and down especially if you havent buffered it at all. Straight pro-mix will follow what ever you dump in there, tho it may not be the exact same, it will be close without the addition of lime or wood ash. Thats all I originally posted, that soil ph can be changed. And different soils have different ph's to start with even with the addition of stabile buffers.

All im trying to do here is help, I personally dont need the help, Its time I pass my knowledge on, thats why I teach a full class of care givers. They bring there problems to the class we all put our experience in and figure out a solution to the problem. A big problem is ph of fert. with out a good soil ph will swing.

thanks for the time

Your so great. I'm so envious of you.

I wish I could be as good as you are.

Your knowledge of "Buffers" is Uh-mazing

Your knowledge of microbial activity in soil is Uh-stounding

Your knowledge on Rhizospheres is Uh-nsurpassed

Where do I sign up for your caregiver grow class? I want to think I'm as great as you think you are.

Please help me oh great canna-grower god, My soil ph screwed me. what ph water do I flush with?

what is AACT PH..?

dubcoastOGs said:

Your so great. I'm so envious of you.

I wish I could be as good as you are.

Your knowledge of "Buffers" is Uh-mazing

Your knowledge of microbial activity in soil is Uh-stounding

Your knowledge on Rhizospheres is Uh-nsurpassed

Where do I sign up for your caregiver grow class? I want to think I'm as great as you think you are.

Please help me oh great canna-grower god, My soil ph screwed me. what ph water do I flush with?

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lol!! just because I post what works on my grow i get ridiculed,,, where does that fit into informational post. I really thought this was the place to share your experience with others,,, not a bitch session. seems I struck a nerve when I made this thread...haa unreal

sativa indica pits said:

In the month I have been on roll it up, I have read countless threads of plant problems, dark green leaves drooping, claw like looking, slower growth and purple stems to name a few. High ph is problem for many growers including my self.

Here are a few plants that are healthy, growing fast hell, and the ph is right around 6.5-6.8 range.
View attachment 2930066View attachment 2930067View attachment 2930068

I selected a few plants that I dont really like to do this experiment on. Here are the pics of the root systems before the experiment.
View attachment 2930071View attachment 2930072View attachment 2930075 They are healthy, white and very fast growing, this is after 4-5 days after my second round of transplanting.

This is the water I flushed through the plants. It was the highest possible ph I could get. Above 8.5 would be my guess.
View attachment 2930076

With-in 12 hrs of flushing with 8.5 water the plants started showing symptoms, drooping, claw looking leaves, dark green and almost a 3d look to the leaf surface. There are some leaves that curl and twist as the soil is now toxic to them.
View attachment 2930077View attachment 2930078View attachment 2930079View attachment 2930080View attachment 2930081

Ph problems are best diagnosed with-in 24 hrs of the first symptoms. After 48 hrs the ph continues to lock out nutes and makes it almost impossible to tell what the hell is wrong with your plants.

If the ph remains high for more than 48 hrs it will start yellowing the plants and make them look like death( note if the ph is around 7.5 the yellowing will take much longer and the dark green leaves and drooping will be the main symptoms) When the ph is above 8 it locks out many macro and micro nutes at the same time which causes the yellowing, brown dead spots, rust color spots, purple leaves and stems and many more symptoms. It becomes very hard to tell what is wrong because your plant will show 3 maybe even 4 deficiencies at the same time. It can be confused with cold temps, and over fertilizing when the real problem is ph.
View attachment 2930086View attachment 2930087

To correct a high ph, I will be flushing with 4.0 water. Lemon juice is also very acidic which will lower the ph.
View attachment 2930085

After about 1 gallon of 4.0 water the ph starts to drop (note, these are large dunkin donut cups that hold about 4 cups of soil) If you have a large pot, It will take a lot of water to drop the ph to a 6.5-6.8 range.
View attachment 2930088

After about 2 gallons of flushing with 4.0 water the ph is down to an acceptable range.
View attachment 2930089

I hope a lot of people who have plant troubles read this, and put it to good use. Feel free to ask questions or mention anything I missed. Merry growing!!


Not sure if the pics are working, if not let me know please

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ok so you say that you flushed with 8.5 ph water and thats the highest you could get it. Then in your next quote you say that you flushed with straight ph up that was watered down by ten percent. Which statment from you is a lie because your contradicting yourself.

Also how do you think your going to get away with blaming the ph of water for doing this to your plants when you clearly say that youve been dumping lemon juice and straight ph up (OK OK it was watered down by 10% tho) right through your plants root zone. This is some fucked up science if you ask me. You poisoned your plants with lemon juice and ph up and you expect that to prove anything? That doesnt prove shit besides the fact that plants dont drink lemon juice or straight (OK OK it was watered down by 10% tho) ph up. If this is how your proving science its back to the drawing board bud

sativa indica pits said:

thank you for telling me my pics are a lie. did you even take the time and look at the pics?

What you dont seem to understand is I ran almost straight ph up thru the soil. not just some sissy water, Dip your finger in, lol You might understand the ph probably did change a bit considering it eats the skin off your finger.... OK OK it was watered down by 10% tho.

So let me get this right..... I dump almost pure ph up thru my soil and it doesnt change the ph of the soil? come on guys. think about what your trying to tell me.

And did you see the pics, you have to click on each link because I originally posted it in general growing and copied and pasted it here.... bet you read it, an posted some crazy shit like ph will never change in soil. yea it will.

Have you ever heard of wood ash. give that to your plants every watering, see what happens. your plants will not like you,,, But wood ash in small amounts acts like lime stabilizes ph and gives your plants a bunch of micro nutes, almost every heavy metal is in wood ash. Nickel, copper, iron, aluminum, zinc, boron, calcium, magnesium, and a few others, read this http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Management/pdfs/a3635.pdf

please read the op again and look at every pic, before posting nonsense in my thread, Trying to help people here, please do the same. thanks for the bump tho!!

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I just really wish I could be there when this all 'clicks' for you.

Lot's of really intelligient people have offered their knowledge in numerous threads with your posts. People that I read every word they write when i come across a post of theirs in a thread. Jack Herer, Spicy Sativa, AimAim, HomeBrewer, etc , etc (sorry if I missed you). These guy's know their shit. How could you really argue that?

Listen to these guys. Be open to what they have to say.

Goodluck with the up-hill battle mate!

all is good here, problem for me is space and my room is too small

You realize everything you say comes across as if your trying to prove yourself, right?

seriously though man. Respectfully, Does anyone in real life like you? Do you have any friends?

Your posts just wreak of self absorption and pompousness.

even if what you were typing is just straight fact. How could anyone even listen to you?

ogilthorpe said:

I'd be surprised that MG has such a high PH out of the bag, but assuming this was the case I'd suggest the grower repot or amend with peat / perlite / promix.

I'm a newish grower and have never PH'd anything, and my plants look great and my harvest have been solid. Pot is insanely easy to grow.

IME 95% of all plant issues in these forums are related to over feeding and or temps, my guess is very few soil grows have PH issues. If a soil grow is having PH issues best advice it to amend or repot to a better soil.

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ya, i dont know where this guys finding MG soil with a ph of 8.3 outta the bag. They probly wouldnt last too long as a company if that was the case.

Alienwidow said:

ya, i dont know where this guys finding MG soil with a ph of 8.3 outta the bag. They probly wouldnt last too long as a company if that was the case.

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it was sitting for 2 years. im sure values of the soil changed a bit, driving the ph up