Heard an Interesting POV...

tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Well in a way this is what has happened in the UK in the past, and now again at present, thankyou the conservative party! They have a thing about privatising all of the services, and instead of a service being run by the government, they're now owned by big corporations, who set their own price their own policies, and the governemnt can't even get any legislation passed to control things. Just look at gas and electricity, the companies profits are increasing fast, yet prices just went up 20% in one day, government shouted, big companies said their piece and prices aren't dropping. They're currently looking at saving money by privatising the National Health Service. Heaven help us. Also looking at saving money by selling off the UK's forests... great idea! It's been knockced down once or twice already, but they're still trying to push forward with selling it.

It's a tough one though none the less. Have the government in control of things, and as such are bound by political codes, but also with the ability to change or create laws as they need, or to have corporations running things who are bound by law, have no say in law (well, not a direct say, a few thousand $ lobbying here and there lol) but at the same time have no political code to adhere to and can do as they like as a private company.
 
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Medicaid is for the poor
Medicare is for the old
If Wal Mart cared tbey would again pay A living wage and again offer benefits.
Right now the tax payer is subsidizing Wal Marts benefit package

AND YOU SHOULD CARE ABOUT THAT
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
Well in a way this is what has happened in the UK in the past, and now again at present, thankyou the conservative party! They have a thing about privatising all of the services, and instead of a service being run by the government, they're now owned by big corporations, who set their own price their own policies, and the governemnt can't even get any legislation passed to control things. Just look at gas and electricity, the companies profits are increasing fast, yet prices just went up 20% in one day, government shouted, big companies said their piece and prices aren't dropping. They're currently looking at saving money by privatising the National Health Service. Heaven help us. Also looking at saving money by selling off the UK's forests... great idea! It's been knockced down once or twice already, but they're still trying to push forward with selling it.

It's a tough one though none the less. Have the government in control of things, and as such are bound by political codes, but also with the ability to change or create laws as they need, or to have corporations running things who are bound by law, have no say in law (well, not a direct say, a few thousand $ lobbying here and there lol) but at the same time have no political code to adhere to and can do as they like as a private company.
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I think selling off the forests is a good idea. You see, a corporation can make money continuously if it keeps a perpetual harvest going. It also saves money by thinning the forest to prevent fires. The forest will be kept in better shape overall at no cost to the taxpayers simply because business can make money off of it.

They will care for and maintain their asset just like they do all of the other ones they have.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Most "poor" people I know have multiple cars per household, a cell phone, cable TV, broadband internet, eats out weekly... And I live in a low income area...

People's priorities are what you should care about. Cable TV/Internet is a Luxury. Multiple cars are a luxury. Eating out is a luxury. People live extremely well because of corporations. You can purchase a laptop 10x faster than the supercomputers of 10 years ago for $400 - because of corporations. People are paying an all time low % of their income on food and housing...

Out of curiosity. Say we get rid of corporations and rich people. How will we get anything done? Say transport a tanker load of fuel across the ocean - do you know how much a tanker costs? How about a tanker load of fuel? Should we have individuals transporting gallons at a time via sail boats? What about large buildings? Say goodbye to all large cities because no individual or small company can afford to build anything over 5 stories...

Whos money are you going to borrow from the banks when you need a loan to buy a house? You realize that the vast majority of the money in banks isn't coming from the 99% right?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Terms said:
Easy.
When you sell public land to a private enterprise
It is no longer Public land.
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So, that private park in new york was no longer public land when the Occupy Wall Street protestors trashed it?

The government can sell the land to the company with the specification that it remains forest and cannot be used for other things.

The company still has to pay taxes on the land so they have a perpetual bill. Therefore, the forest pays for itself perpetually at no cost to the taxpayers.

It is not difficult to structure a deal where a corporation has access to the renewable resources and also covers the costs of maintaining the forest in a good way.

You could still allow public use of the land as well depending on the deal and the size of the forest.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Most logging land is privately held - the majority by the logging companies who are descendants of the railroad barrons who were granted HUGE swathes of land way back in the day. Aside from land they already own loggers utilize other privately owned land or contracts with the government to log via permit on multiple use land - I would google this as it is a complex topic with a ton of complex law behind it as to what they can and cannot do to the forests... Keep in mind that it's in the loggers best interest to keep the forest in the best health possible - it's their lively hood.

Generally logged forests are MUCH healthier than non logged forests due to fire suppression. Plants and animals thrive on the boarders of differing small ecotypes - I forest with many glens, wide spaced trees, little fallen debris on the floor can sustain much high plant and animal numbers than a gummed up forest with few opening, dense brush and litter... Generally fires would clear out all the old trash but as we prevent natural forest fires this isn't happening. <- this all applies to the US were we have greatly changed our old destructive logging practices. Doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the world.
 
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Well allrighty then. Lets sell all the public land. Guess a trip to yosemite is out of the question now
 
TheDemocrat

TheDemocrat

Active Member
so if the land was sold to a private company with a stipulation they couldn't cut the trees down, the government would then fine the company if they cut down the trees. when the price of lumber goes sky high the company cuts down the trees anyway, because even after paying the fines they still made a billion $$$.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Terms said:
Well allrighty then. Lets sell all the public land. Guess a trip to yosemite is out of the question now
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Seriously? So 70% of Arizona is owned by the government. If they sell some land think it'll be the Grand Canyon? 86% of Nevada is owned by the government will the first thing they sell is their tip of Death Valley?
 
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Gastanker said:
Seriously? So 70% of Arizona is owned by the government. If they sell some land think it'll be the Grand Canyon? 86% of Nevada is owned by the government will the first thing they sell is their tip of Death Valley?
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Anything exploitable in the Grand Canyon?
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Terms said:
Anything exploitable in the Grand Canyon?
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Tourism... the same thing that's exploitable in Yosemite... Do you think the trees in Yosemite are worth more than the tourism?

Btw, most of the land up there near Yosemite is already owned by the logging companies and has been since the founding of the state - grants by the federal government for railroads. Those are some of the healthiest most beautiful forests in the world.
 
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