Has anyone made a simple array of PAR38 floods?

I keep going back & forth with indecision about what I want to invest in... Go with an A51 or two... Maybe go the DIY route, etc...

I've picked up 3 of those LED floods at the local HD/Lowes/etc... And I've used them for seedlings/clones, etc...

This weekends ad has a 20w Warm White Utilitech flood for $22.98 each... $5 off...

So, I keep contemplating a simple bar/strip made of 4-5 of these, mixing in a couple Cool Whites to give a little blue mix-in with all the red from the Warm Whites... Not sure Cool or Neutral to get that little blue bump for a flowering focus...

So I'm guessing there';s a reason why so many use the LED bulbs instead of Floods? I know I've heard criticism that bulbs emit in all directions... well, floods are directional... So that point is moot - right?

Also, this was cool... The 'EcoSmart' brand has LED floods where the internal fixture is on a gimbal and can even be directionally aimed... too much extra $$ for that though..

Also, there are a few brands now that appear to have true 'reflectors' and not the normal plastic covering/diffusion lens.... It looked like a little LEDiL reflector...

So I'm thinking if there's no real reason why it's pointless (i.e. horribly inefficient - I'm not aiming for SUPER efficient... just not stupidly inefficient)... Why not try?

I found simple ceramic fixtures for $3 or so each and those can sit atop a junction box that is $2 or so a piece... wire 'em up in parrallel using a heavy gauge extension cord.... BAM... Strip light?

Am I talking crazy shit? All this movement to WW based lights like the 190.... how far off the mark would this be?

Two examples I spoke of....

Use of reflectors...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-75W-Equivalent-Bright-White-3000K-PAR30-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-ECS-30-75WE-WW-GB-FL-120/204788235

Directional aim...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-75W-Equivalent-Bright-White-3000K-PAR30-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-ECS-30-75WE-WW-GB-FL-120/204788235

All kinds of folks have built these "ghetto panels", I had built a couple last year with CFL's for clones. Since LED bulbs have come down so much, CFLs make no sense anymore imo and I eventually replaced that with a small 100W LED panel.

But for my next round, I'm building one of ---> linked to my post last year: these panels, with 3x of the bathroom vanity fixtures, so 9 bulb capacity total per panel. In my case, I picked up a bunch of 5W COB LED's, so 9x5W=45W each. Will be using them as end lighting in my next round, not primary lighting but if you used say 10W or the 20W bulbs you mention and mixed the spectrums (3000k, 4000k, 6500k) they would work. It's questionable if you go say 20W @ $22/each, you're in the price range of a low-end panel, but 6x 20W would grow a nice plant with the right spectrum mix, and could fit into a small cabinet with no heat worries.

Yeah, I've actually taken my tent down and have the room setup sans tent now, with a single 8 bulb T5 fixture. I have two of those fixtures but running both presents heat challenges.... Funny that you call them 'ghetto panels'... I was about to use the same term... but hey! if it works....

I was looking at 5-6 at first to prove the heat management benefit was there and if so, add another 5-6 for a total 10-12 bulbs... mixing the spectrum a bit with red dominant of course...

My goal is to replace the 2 fixtures for an all LED grow with wattage that would replace - if not upgrade - the current 800+ T5 watts I'll be swapping out for the new light(s)... I've never been able to manage the heat with both, so maybe 600 w LED is the long-term goal once I settle on "real" fixtures...

I figure with so much in flux right now with the LED movement, stalling and doing something quick & dirty is just buying me time for jumping on board the next round of innovation...

Hey, whatever works, I call them ghetto just because they're not true LED panels or DIY panels, but enough of these bulbs and they'll do just fine and not complicated at all to build, literally a couple of hours. Nice thing with the LED's is exactly what you mention, low heat output. The investment becomes questionable once you go beyond a certain point though, but I want to use them as side/end lighting and it's a cheap/quick/easy way to go. I've seen people use them (bulb LED's) to extend their coverage as well.

When you go to the 600W range check out what 650W or so of a high-end LED panel can do on GreenGenes side-by-side grow against hps, using an Apache AT600. The LED's literally blew hps away. Almost the same yield, using 400W less draw, never mind the extra power required to cool 1000W hps, and nicer buds imo. Expensive initially but that's a good indication of what top-end LED panels can do.

Hello NG. To compare against DIY, you could build a 3000K 52W COB for about $70 in parts, so $1.34/W. It would be 128lm/W or 39% efficient.

The lamp you linked is 10W for $35 = $3.50/W. It is 75lm/W, approx 23% efficient.

So you can see the LED bulbs at retail stores are much more expensive and much less efficient, although the flood style sure is a step in the right direction.

Just watched the summary video... Definitely impressive numbers when looking at Grams per Watt...

But... Ouch... Dollar per Gram numbers paint quite the different picture...

So from the video, he shared that he got the AT600 = 656g yield where a 1000w HPS setup was yielding 677g...

Per Apache's current pricing on their site I looked at the AT600 @ $2400... about double my top dollar budget I would even allow myself to consider...
Per Growers House pricing and even a kit that sounds like what he used exactly... at $548 without considering shipping (on either)...

That's 0.27333 grams per Dollar for the AT600... Where the HPS setup comes in at 1.2354....

So, if I were a research scientist set to prove that LEDs can perform - with an unlimited budget - then yeah, it's a no brainer...
But alas, reality sucks.... And I do have to work within a realistic budget... Now, can you build an equivalent to that AT600 at DIY costs? Sure...

I need to "shit or get off the pot" and order some damn parts.... And a new DMM if doing so... Recommendations there? Fluke 179? Agilent equivalent?

I wish I had better numbers on my cooling cost to factor into that Dollars per Gram number... but I've to date only ran a simple 6" inline w/ filter and dump the air into a general living space pulling in fresh air from the same open area (think loft)... but I don't suspect it'd skew my numbers all that much if you just consider electrical draw and not the upfront costs of the fan.... It'd skew them a little in favor of the LED, but I don't think radically?

NewGrower2011 said:

Just watched the summary video... Definitely impressive numbers when looking at Grams per Watt...

But... Ouch... Dollar per Gram numbers paint quite the different picture...

So from the video, he shared that he got the AT600 = 656g yield where a 1000w HPS setup was yielding 677g...

Per Apache's current pricing on their site I looked at the AT600 @ $2400... about double my top dollar budget I would even allow myself to consider...
Per Growers House pricing and even a kit that sounds like what he used exactly... at $548 without considering shipping (on either)...

That's 0.27333 grams per Dollar for the AT600... Where the HPS setup comes in at 1.2354....

So, if I were a research scientist set to prove that LEDs can perform - with an unlimited budget - then yeah, it's a no brainer...
But alas, reality sucks.... And I do have to work within a realistic budget... Now, can you build an equivalent to that AT600 at DIY costs? Sure...

I need to "shit or get off the pot" and order some damn parts.... And a new DMM if doing so... Recommendations there? Fluke 179? Agilent equivalent?

Click to expand...

You're not including the costs associated with hps, that is replacement bulbs, extra heat to remove (additional power/fans/cooling air-conditioning). No ballast/bulb replacements and savings in power for the whole grow (light, less cooling required etc) alone over the life of an AT600 would pay it back several times over. LED is an investment when you go towards the higher end lights, it's just different, higher investment up-front (capital), lower operational costs (expense).

A lot of people get scared off by that initial price tag, which is closer to $2,000 shipped with discount codes. But if you're going to compare the costs over the life of the equipment, you need to compare all costs. I'd still rather spend the $2k up-front and focus on growing than deal with all the costs, headaches and maintenance associated with hps.

I'll use my somewhat functional cheap LED's until I settle either DIY, an Apache or multiple A51's for the long term. The grow you mentioned (GreeGenes) just solidified my belief that LED's are the way to go, no question there.

I hear ya... That's why I keep hedging and second guessing shit!

I'm also looking at the $500 portable AC I don't want to have to run a circuit for... and that was because I couldn't justify a mini-split (same parallels of up-front investment and the overall long-term picture)...

I held off on the AC unit install thinking maybe I can get around the need for it by going LED over my T5's... if going LED solves the heat issue... that's a big win for me and helps justify the expense more so...

Yeah, depending on how much you're planning to run and your room layout/size, LED may not need air conditioning, although it'll be easier to maintain the temps though the summer if your area's warm. When I started indoor I didn't "get" the importance of doing whatever you have to do to dial your room in. You could have one of those $2000 lights but if your temps or humidity are not dialled-in, you're growing crap regardless of what lighting you have. If you're talking those portable air conditioners, from what I've read/looked into, and my son had a single pipe portable, look at a dual-pipe they're supposed to be more effective and efficient. Good luck in your grows...

Yup. Went dual pipe or nothing on that front... aimed for 'next best' to mini-split... It was a sudden end-of-season decision when it was on clearance and I saved a few bucks... Now it sits on standby in case the house AC or Heat goes out (it has heat too)...I figure it makes a great emergency backup in case the main Heat/AC for the house dies...

I can't believe non of these slap-a-label-on-rebranded-shit hydro manufacturers hasn't specced out to their manufacturer (china probably) and offered a portable AC that is sealed well enough to manage the odor aspects... so many folks on forums looking for odor control and a portable... without modding it themselves or getting themselves killed doing crap they don't know how to do...

Between that and the Gorilla tent I may not be able to use (had tent inside a room to zone things) I could've plopped down $900 or so on LED's instead! Damnit!

Oh well, shit happens. Not all's lost, you may be able to recover a good chunk of it by re-selling them if you don't need either of them and put that towards lights.

How much power do you save from not running as many fans ?

i like the idea of not having so much heat beamed at the plants with led
and the overall temp of the room being lower with led
but i would feel uncomfortable taking away too much air circulation as its there not just to remove heat but bring a constant flow of new air over the plants

Hi skunk, I metered all my circulation fans and inlines for inbound and exhaust. @7.2 cents/KWhr, running LED's, my inlines (2x) would cost $20/month, or $10/month each, if I were running them 24/7. I typically have them on timers and alternating in/out. Circulation fans I've been running one large 22" on low, runs about $5/month 24/7. Not a ton but adds up quick when you add everything up. I think the difference and where the savings come in is I can run them on their lowest settings, both exhaust and incoming fresh air have variable speed controllers, set to the lowest setting, and not having to run constantly. The higher the rate, the higher the savings.