Grow tent setup...yea another noob needs help...hah

Aright so I have been researching for a while now and have looked over more growing advice than I thought ever possible. I will start with what I'm looking to achieve. I was looking at growing approximately 6 plants. The strains I was hoping to grow were the Barney Farm's Vanilla Kush (fem seed) and the Green House's Arjan's Strawberry Kush (fem seed). Vegging for about a month dependent upon the growth (I also realize that the Arjan is a predominantly sativa blend). I have read some reviews on both. The Vanilla Kush I'm more willing to take suggestions on.

The set-up:

-Growlab GL80L - 2'7" x 4'11" x 6'7" (approx. 80 cu. ft.)
-Sun System Blazer reflector (6" air cooled)
-Lumatek and accessory fan (dimmable 600W/400W electronic ballast)
-400W MH (HiLux Gro Super MH 400) and 600 HPS (unsure of HPS - I've read the Lumatek bulb is shit)
-Hydrofarm Megagarden (possibly considering a 2' x 2' flood as well)
-6" 400 CFM inline fan w/controller - was thinking Vortex (need to be sure it is dependable and fairly quiet - I know it may be hard at 400+ CFM)
-Carbon filter (I found a good DIY design on here for inline)
-pH meter (Blue lab pen)
-Digital programmable timers
-Battery back-up for both the lighting, fans and hydro (QTY: 2, get more if needed.)

I plan to take my time putting this together because I wanna try to avoid rook mistakes if at all possible (i.e. set up tent and lighting to figure out my temps). This set-up will be in a house. The ambient temp in the room will be between 78F - 83F, but 78 for most of the day. I can program the A/C to be more consistent. Not a big deal there. The part I haven't researched enough is the nutes but I figured between shipping the tent, lighting etc. and getting the temps and humidity dialed in I have time to research. I will take suggestions if you have them though.

I do have some design questions on the ventilation, mostly filter placement. I have read that it is better to pull through the filter (makes sense design standpoint) and it should be as close to the fan's intake as possible. I was wondering if I could put a dropped 90 duct one side of the reflector with a carbon filter attached to the end. Meaning air flow would be passively pulled in through the intake holes of the tent in through the carbon filter, through the reflector, to the cent. fan and exhausted into the room. I think with that big ass fan pulling that kinda CFM's I would be aright but if there is something I am missing let me know.

I would like to see this come together but I know that patience is key. Feel free to merc my set-up now. I've read enough of these to know. hah.

Loud Smoke and Chevy Keys,

Smoothkicksandsmoke

Sounds to me like you've got it all together. As far as nutes go I use the Fox Farms trio of grow big ,big bloom and tiger bloom. Works for me.

Thanks for the tip dude. I'll look into it FF some more and figure that part out when I get closer to that phase. Right now I'm trying to figure out this filter and ventilation design. Good look though.

Your ventilation is on par with that fan, temps should be alright.I use a 4" 171 cap inline in my dr 120 tent running a 400 wat hps and a phat 4x12 200cfm carbon filter and the temp are 75-77,but my ambient temp in the room is 73.The ac at the house stay at 74 for the daytime and 77 for nighttime.

I think your fan is way oversized, and speed controllers suck. They make the fan louder cause the fan motor makes this annoying hum/drone. I would suggest you get a 4" vortex inline and some 4">6" reducers and run it full blast. That's what I have, but I also ahve lower ambient temps. If you do decide to get the 6", you'll probably just end up running it full blast too. Don't waste your money on the speedster speed controller. I did. At least don't buy it straight away. See how the noise is with whatever fan you get running full blast first. I would suggest hempy buckets over ebb and flow just because I think it's easier, and all I have experience with personally.

I like the shape of your tent better than mine, which is 4x4, because light comes off the sides of the bulbs more than the front and back, so I think a rectangle is better than a square. Because of this I'm running mine diagonally in the tent. Your ventilation order sounds correct, but make sure the carbon filter is as high in the tent as possible, because that's where all the heat rises to, then down through your light and up out the fan. Some people say this causes charcoal dust to coat your light but cent fans work better with the resistance on the intake side than the output.

@toasty - thanks for the input. I was thinking that with my ambient temps being that high, the carbon filter restricting air flow and the 600W adding heat into the mix that the oversize fan would be beneficial to the setup. How's that 400W doing for you? I was considering going with a 400W initially but figured with the ballast that I would be getting that I could always bring it down to a 400W if need be. How may girls you running?

@KT - I was also thinking following your line of logic at first too but figure that with the factors in my reply to toasty that a 4" may not cut it to bring the environment into check. Depending on the CFM rating on the filter it will cut down that many CFM's from the fan's capability (if I'm correctly informed?). I also remember reading that your fan should be able to empty the grow space in either i) under a min or ii) a couple times per minute. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm guessing the only way to know for sure would be start my purchases out with just the tent, reflector, ballast and light. Figure out where my temps are, then try to fight that battle. I didn't mention this in my set-up list but I also intend to have 2, maybe 3 oscillating fans running as well.

Thoughts and feedback......

Loud,
Smoothkicksandsmoke

Smoothkicksandsmoke said:

@toasty - thanks for the input. I was thinking that with my ambient temps being that high, the carbon filter restricting air flow and the 600W adding heat into the mix that the oversize fan would be beneficial to the setup. How's that 400W doing for you? I was considering going with a 400W initially but figured with the ballast that I would be getting that I could always bring it down to a 400W if need be. How may girls you running?

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IT,s doing great,Got 4 in there in 5 gallon dwc's in the 12th day of 12/12.

toastynoodles said:

IT,s doing great,Got 4 in there in 5 gallon dwc's in the 12th day of 12/12.

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What strains you growing toasty? I'm struggling to figure out nutes. Too damn many of them out there. I suppose it has more to do with the farmer than the formulas. Any suggestions? I have also added Midnight Kush to my probable strains I'll be purchasing.

From what I've read, the rule of thumb for ventilation range from 1 air change per 3-5 minutes to once a minute under low to normal temps, or 2-3 air changes per minute under high temps. You have about 80 sq ft so a 172cfm 4" vortex would do about 2 changes a minute. The 6" 442cfm is going to be doing over 5 changes a minute which is probably more than necessary, but better too much than too little. I was planning on using a 6" fan too because my hood has 6" ports and my tent has 6" ports until I did the math an figured it was unneccesary. It's also easier to work with 4" duct than 6" duct. Go with the 442 6" though if you want, it may prove usefull in your higher ambient temps, and if you ever decided to step up to a 1000w, but if you're living next to this thing you may find it louder than you like, and if you get the speedster fan speed conroller you'll most likely find the buzz/hum created by turning the fan down to be more annoying that the sound of the whooshing air.

For nutes, Hydroponic Research Veg+Bloom has been getting a lot of praise, though they are relatively new. It's a 1 part powder fert similar to using Maxibloom in the K.I.S.S method. I'm going to be switching from GH Lucas formula to 1/2 tsp Veg+Bloom per gal veg and 3/4 - 1tsp flower. You can get a free sample if you go to their website and email them your name and local hydro store. A 1lb tub is $20

KT - 600 is the max for me. Im going to have a carbon filter on this and I seem to remember reason something like the CFM rating on the filter is what would be taken away from the fan's capacity. Any validity?
Its funny you recommending Veg + Bloom because that is what Ive been reading about and have decided to go with.

Smoothkicksandsmoke said:

KT - 600 is the max for me. Im going to have a carbon filter on this and I seem to remember reason something like the CFM rating on the filter is what would be taken away from the fan's capacity. Any validity?
Its funny you recommending Veg + Bloom because that is what Ive been reading about and have decided to go with.

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The CFM rating on the filter is the max amount of air you should expect to flow through it, as I take it. Meaning if you have a 442cfm fan, you want to go with a 450cfm or better rated filter.

KT420 said:

The CFM rating on the filter is the max amount of air you should expect to flow through it, as I take it. Meaning if you have a 442cfm fan, you want to go with a 450cfm or better rated filter.

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Thanks KT, that just stopped me from making a major misinformed mistake. I'm also rethinking the 600W and downgrading to a 400W. It should allow me to utilize a smaller fan and keep the tent cooler. Any thoughts?

Now I just need to figure out the medium. Can you run anything other than hydroton in a flood and drain?

I wouldn't drop to a 400. 600w is the perfect size for that size tent and 600's are the most efficient of all at turning watts to lumens. Going to 400 you will be using 33% less watts but getting ~45% less lumens (50,000 for a 400 versus 90,000 for a 600). If you really think temps are going to be that big of a problem, I would say just go with the 6" fan, but the 4" should be plenty. Where are you going to be dumping the exhaust though? Just right back into the room the tent is in?

If you have an air return in the room, what you'll probably want to do is take the grill off it, put something like a piece of ductboard or even just a piece of cardboard over the hole and foil tape around the edges, but before you do that, cut a hole in the center of the ductboard/cardboard for a 4" or 6" collar so that you can hook your duct from the fan up to it. Also put the screws that held the grill on to the boot back in the boot, then press your piece of ductboard or cardboard against them to mark where you need 2 holes in the ductboard/cardboard then you can use the boot screws to help hold your ductboard/cardboard to the wall in addition to the foil tape. Your air handler will also then be helping suck the air out of the tent. Also you'll probably want to close the supply vents on any other rooms that are on the same branch of ductwork that the room the tent is in is on so the tent room gets the most cooling/positive pressure. You may then find that after closing the door on the room that the tent is in you'll get a lot of air being pushed out of the room underneath the door. Use some weather stripping and/or a door snake to try and keep as much positive pressure in the room as you can. Same goes for windows or any other places that leak in the room. High positive pressure in the room will aid your cent fan and air handler in pushing/sucking the air out. Also, use insulated duct from light to fan and from fan to air return, instead of non insulatnig duct, to avoid heat loss from the light back into the room. non-insulated duct from carbon filter to light is fine though.

EDIT: I've never run DWC or anything with a res because from all that I read my temps were always too high to keep the res cool enough to avoid root rot / pythium. At least that was the problem for DWC, that may not be the case for ebb and flow since the roots are allowed air between floods, IDK, but I do know you want to keep the res cool, and it sounds like you have even worse problems with temps. I'd say the easiest thing for a beginner to start off with are hempy buckets, which is passive hydro, hand watering once a day, or maybe 100% coco in smartpots, handwatering once a day. I think I'm going to be switching from hempys to coco in smartpots and possibly using the blumat system to water them as they need it so I can leave them for 2-3 days at a time.

I just realized, you got me saying cent fans when those are different than inline fans. Centrifugal fans are the squirrel cage type fans. Inline fan is the one that you want. I also just realized that not all 6" inline fans are 449cfm like the Vortex. Looks like Can-fan makes a 6" HO(High Output) that does 392cfm but they also make a regular 6" (non-HO) that only does 270cfm, and 270cfm would be adequate without being too noisy in 6" duct. I'd suggest to get that one with no fan speed controller.

KT420 said:

I just realized, you got me saying cent fans when those are different than inline fans. Centrifugal fans are the squirrel cage type fans. Inline fan is the one that you want. I also just realized that not all 6" inline fans are 449cfm like the Vortex. Looks like Can-fan makes a 6" HO(High Output) that does 392cfm but they also make a regular 6" (non-HO) that only does 270cfm, and 270cfm would be adequate without being too noisy in 6" duct. I'd suggest to get that one with no fan speed controller.

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I would be dumping the exhaust back into the room if I can't find a duct return in the room to tie into. I know there's a vent for cooled air. Okay you've got me back on the 600w idea. I think it's wattage and lumen footprint is best but Im kinda curious what kind of heat signature it would put off?
The fan I'm looking at now is the S&P TD150S. Max CFM 333. It has a built in two speed controller (I know you advised against this). It has a lower dB rating than any other fan I can find. Stealth is fairly important to my grow.
I remember when I was looking at the Veg + Bloom nute threads mostly used coco. I'm just wondering how it would drain via hand watering? I know the coco is an absorbent of sorts. I've also looked into the blumat you mentioned. Very interesting. Still requires a res though right? If using Veg + Bloom do you think it would cause issues with the blumat? Clogs or not wicking out the solution from the res?

Yeah that looks like a great fan. It has good reviews and good price so I'd say go for it. Heats gonna build up in the room big time so I'd suggest finding an air return or if there isn't one, venting through the ceiling into the attic. If stealths that much of a concern I'd build a cab instead of a tent, and don't go any bigger than about 150w if you're just going to be recycling air into the room or it will start to raise room temp considerably.

Blumats res can be placed outside the tent where it's cooler. It's gravity fed not wick. Should be fine with nutes from what I've read. Coco retains more water than perlite but nothing like soil from what I've read. Never used it personally.

KT420 said:

Yeah that looks like a great fan. It has good reviews and good price so I'd say go for it. Heats gonna build up in the room big time so I'd suggest finding an air return or if there isn't one, venting through the ceiling into the attic. If stealths that much of a concern I'd build a cab instead of a tent, and don't go any bigger than about 150w if you're just going to be recycling air into the room or it will start to raise room temp considerably.

Blumats res can be placed outside the tent where it's cooler. It's gravity fed not wick. Should be fine with nutes from what I've read. Coco retains more water than perlite but nothing like soil from what I've read. Never used it personally.

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As it turns out there is an air return in the room. So I'll be using that. As for the S&P fan, the only bad things I've heard is it's response to static pressure but if I minimize the number of bends in the duct I think I should be aright.
After reading about the blumat I think it's probably my best route. Thanks for pointing that out. Soooo stealing your idea. Hah. I'm gonna drain to waste with catch pans. You've been a great help in bouncing ideas off of. When are you gonna start your next grow with coco?

At 270cfm you have a lot of room to lose so you should be good. I'm planning and setting it up right now. This will be my first grow with coco, I've only used 100% perlite hempy buckets and soil in the past. I have the tent, light, fan, filter and duct up and have some beans but waiting on more beans to come in. I've been researching which brand coco to go with and looks like I need to take a trip across town to score some Canna, local store only has Botanicare. Going to get some smart pots at the same time but STILL haven't decided on 2gal or 3 gal. I'm worried 3 gal may be too big and not let as much air to the roots, but 2gal may need watering too often if I don't get the blumats setup in time..... I'll probably be hand watering to start at least through seed/veg until I can figure out how I'm going to make the blumat res and elevated res setup come together. I'm thinking about building a frame out of 2x4 to hold a 1.5gal sterlite 5' above a 10gal sterlite so if anything happens it will just drip/drain into the 10gal. My tent has a waterproof liner in the bottom but I'm thinking about throwing a kiddy pool in there just to be safe... IDK yet still tossing ideas around.

KT420 said:

At 270cfm you have a lot of room to lose so you should be good. I'm planning and setting it up right now. This will be my first grow with coco, I've only used 100% perlite hempy buckets and soil in the past. I have the tent, light, fan, filter and duct up and have some beans but waiting on more beans to come in. I've been researching which brand coco to go with and looks like I need to take a trip across town to score some Canna, local store only has Botanicare. Going to get some smart pots at the same time but STILL haven't decided on 2gal or 3 gal. I'm worried 3 gal may be too big and not let as much air to the roots, but 2gal may need watering too often if I don't get the blumats setup in time..... I'll probably be hand watering to start at least through seed/veg until I can figure out how I'm going to make the blumat res and elevated res setup come together. I'm thinking about building a frame out of 2x4 to hold a 1.5gal sterlite 5' above a 10gal sterlite so if anything happens it will just drip/drain into the 10gal. My tent has a waterproof liner in the bottom but I'm thinking about throwing a kiddy pool in there just to be safe... IDK yet still tossing ideas around.

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I haven't started yet. Wanted to get design squared away first. There's actually a really good thread about coco grows (I'm sure you've read it). I read through it and it may be best to use some larger coco in the pot to aide with aeration. I would say go 3 gal. That's just me though. I'd rather not have to transplant or make the girls root bound. I also read a thread on the blumat where the guy had his blumats dialed in so that the waste was minimal. He used those foil casserole pans under some raised wire closet shelves. If I can find the links I'll post them. Let me know the canna coco looks. Pics would be great (of the canna and your setup once it's done). Itll help me visualize my setup. Thanks KT