Grain bag showing no growth after 3 weeks

canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Lastly, cause I like you and want you to succeed.

When inoculating bags.... distribute any standing liquid of soggy grain before you inoculate. A good shake will do.

Never EVER. Ever let anything moist touch the inside of that filter patch. Eventually, if you do, a very nasty, very ugly black mold will come to visit and refuse ever to leave. It is capable of germinating out side of and on top of that filter. No, the Spores are too big to pass through the what? .2 micron? Fabric? But the mycelium will force it's way through a pore. The next time you move the bag a piece of that mycelium will break off inside the bag. The stuff is insidious and invasive and infuriating.

8 no longer grow what you are attempting. I have enough but 30 years ago I was so inspired by the whole thing that I have been growing edibles ever since.

This contaminant almost made me quit. It took many months of experimenting before o figured it out. I lost hundreds and hundreds of bags. My confidence in the filters blinded me. I suspected my strain, my technique, my grain, my bags, my sterile processes, my biome, my philosophy, my chemistry, but not the filters.

Not the filters, why spores are just too big to get in there.

On a hunch I used the filter in a petri dish and there it was.

So dont do that. Finally, after you have I inoculated, you did wave your syringe around while squirting right? Finally, shake the bag immediately, a little swirl, a little agitation.

Then, after you see growth at other points, shake it up again. Then, if you see a bare patch, shake it again.
 
TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
I recommend only pure, uncontaminated substrates. You dont want to try to out compete.

Should you wish to expand your mycelium through any method, you will fail. We do not know the effects of unknown bacteria or fungus on something you intend to eat.

Here is one thing 8 should reiterate. You are delving into the realm of the predatory. Fungus and bacteria have evolved to be very efficient poison labs. Ergot fungus produces a highly dangerous toxin. Aflatoxin, another in those classes, is one of the most potent t carcinogens known to man.

Now a few Spores or even a small colony will most likely not harm you but those who focus on growing such things tend to let those colonies continue to perhaps dangerous levels.

Botulinus (though it is unlikely you will unwittingly grow this unless you work in anaerobic conditions) is the most potent neurotoxins. Do not fuck with these things just because you are growing them. You throw the contaminants out...safely and quickly.

I now have two friends who figured they would try to save a few canning jars by digging the contamination out. Both have what appears to be permanent and perhaps progressive lung disorders.

Again, 8f you dont know exactly what your contaminants are, and even if you do, you are playing with all the horror that an organism that has been waging war on other organisms for a billion years can produce.


Jesus. Figure that if a fungus can affect your mind in tiny doses another might be able to affect the rest of your body at least as profoundly?

Throw the bag out and start over.
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I see your point, don't get me wrong, I'm not a moron. That said, these things grow naturally in some pretty skud conditions, on cow shit for example, yet people go pick those and eat them without any of this extra concern about contamination, just wash em first basically. Now again I'll reiterate, im not idiotic, if I find a bag FULL of orange green black whatever, bang in the bin. but that orange patch is TINY and also there's a similar patch in the bag showing no signs of colonizing in the exact same spot, and neither are changing size, so I'm at least 70% sure it's just discolored excess water, that soaked up some colour from the grain. I'm not going to throw the only bag I've got, that cost me 55 bucks to order and took a month to show signs of anything, over something that probably isn't a problem. And adding credence to my belief, I put the picture on reddit and another guy said if it was contamination it would smell like off milk or somethin.. They both just smell like grain. So at this point it's wait and see. But to be extra safe I'll be leaving the orange spot behind when I spawn into the tote =) and of course if it starts smelling funky I'll bin it. I did a quick pf tek jar last night as an extra back up basically I'm just gonna fruit that one in the jar let em grow out the top.
 
TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Lastly, cause I like you and want you to succeed.

When inoculating bags.... distribute any standing liquid of soggy grain before you inoculate. A good shake will do.

Never EVER. Ever let anything moist touch the inside of that filter patch. Eventually, if you do, a very nasty, very ugly black mold will come to visit and refuse ever to leave. It is capable of germinating out side of and on top of that filter. No, the Spores are too big to pass through the what? .2 micron? Fabric? But the mycelium will force it's way through a pore. The next time you move the bag a piece of that mycelium will break off inside the bag. The stuff is insidious and invasive and infuriating.

8 no longer grow what you are attempting. I have enough but 30 years ago I was so inspired by the whole thing that I have been growing edibles ever since.

This contaminant almost made me quit. It took many months of experimenting before o figured it out. I lost hundreds and hundreds of bags. My confidence in the filters blinded me. I suspected my strain, my technique, my grain, my bags, my sterile processes, my biome, my philosophy, my chemistry, but not the filters.

Not the filters, why spores are just too big to get in there.

On a hunch I used the filter in a petri dish and there it was.

So dont do that. Finally, after you have I inoculated, you did wave your syringe around while squirting right? Finally, shake the bag immediately, a little swirl, a little agitation.

Then, after you see growth at other points, shake it up again. Then, if you see a bare patch, shake it again.
Click to expand...
No shit I didn't see this one till I'd already replied to your other one lol cheers buddy I like you too =)
 
TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Lastly, cause I like you and want you to succeed.

When inoculating bags.... distribute any standing liquid of soggy grain before you inoculate. A good shake will do.

Never EVER. Ever let anything moist touch the inside of that filter patch. Eventually, if you do, a very nasty, very ugly black mold will come to visit and refuse ever to leave. It is capable of germinating out side of and on top of that filter. No, the Spores are too big to pass through the what? .2 micron? Fabric? But the mycelium will force it's way through a pore. The next time you move the bag a piece of that mycelium will break off inside the bag. The stuff is insidious and invasive and infuriating.

8 no longer grow what you are attempting. I have enough but 30 years ago I was so inspired by the whole thing that I have been growing edibles ever since.

This contaminant almost made me quit. It took many months of experimenting before o figured it out. I lost hundreds and hundreds of bags. My confidence in the filters blinded me. I suspected my strain, my technique, my grain, my bags, my sterile processes, my biome, my philosophy, my chemistry, but not the filters.

Not the filters, why spores are just too big to get in there.

On a hunch I used the filter in a petri dish and there it was.

So dont do that. Finally, after you have I inoculated, you did wave your syringe around while squirting right? Finally, shake the bag immediately, a little swirl, a little agitation.

Then, after you see growth at other points, shake it up again. Then, if you see a bare patch, shake it again.
Click to expand...
OH fuck if the grain was moist chances are it touched the patch inside. But no black mold yet so that's a bullet dodged lol
 
cindysid

cindysid

Well-Known Member
You're going to have to start over. 1/2 pint jars are great. They colonize quickly and IME are less prone to contaminants. Canndo has forgotten more than we will ever know about culturing the fungi. Ignore his advice at your own peril!
 
J

JPCyan

Well-Known Member
Appears to be wet spot Bacteria . Bacillus Subtilis is common . It usually appears in overly wet in bags and jars. The grain will have a shiny/slimy appearance and often look like it is stuck to the bag or jar. It commonly develops a white ring around the margin of the grain. But never full colonizes.
It usually has a smell. Some describe as rotten apples, or burnt bacon. Never good to sniff bacteria, but just a whiff up close is sometimes enough to smell the funk. It can also appears almost greasy. With an orange/ rusty or brown slimy look.
Bacillus Subtilis is used in some types of fermentation. And that's often how it smells (rotten apples). It is not toxic, BUT!!!! There are other forms of Bacillus ,very bad stuff, similar in color, Very Bad!
 
TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

Well-Known Member
JPCyan said:
Appears to be wet spot Bacteria . Bacillus Subtilis is common . It usually appears in overly wet in bags and jars. The grain will have a shiny/slimy appearance and often look like it is stuck to the bag or jar. It commonly develops a white ring around the margin of the grain. But never full colonizes.
It usually has a smell. Some describe as rotten apples, or burnt bacon. Never good to sniff bacteria, but just a whiff up close is sometimes enough to smell the funk. It can also appears almost greasy. With an orange/ rusty or brown slimy look.
Bacillus Subtilis is used in some types of fermentation. And that's often how it smells (rotten apples). It is not toxic, BUT!!!! There are other forms of Bacillus ,very bad stuff, similar in color, Very Bad!
Click to expand...
Then it's definitely not that. No smell bar the grain.
 
TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

TheGrassIsGreenerInAus

Well-Known Member
cindysid said:
You're going to have to start over. 1/2 pint jars are great. They colonize quickly and IME are less prone to contaminants. Canndo has forgotten more than we will ever know about culturing the fungi. Ignore his advice at your own peril!
Click to expand...
THERE IS NO SMELL. THE PATCH IS GETTING SMALLER, NOT BIGGER. it's clearly not a competing infestation, it is just discolored water. And as I said earlier, it grows naturally on bloody cow shit. I'm not throwing out a perfectly good bag over a orange spec now smaller than a penny.
 
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HeatlessBBQ

HeatlessBBQ

Well-Known Member
Mate, what don't You understand of the word "contaminated"?

It's fairly simple, really...
If YOU do not throw away those bags, Your substrate will not only fail at collonizing.
Your mycelium growth will kill and infect that fungus.

It is highly doubtful You will even fruit a single pin.
And if You do [which is very unlikely] You will deliver or receive food poisoning.

Ever read up on "botulism"?
 
J

JPCyan

Well-Known Member
Keep checking for insidious odors, let it grow. Keep taking pics to judge if potential contam is changing/ growing. Do not disturb the grain or mix it. ( this is good (mixing) to speed up colonization only when you know the culture is clean).
With a tiny amount of potential wet spot, I'll take the wait and see approach. It usually only spreads wildly if over moist conditions persist. It is the only contam that wouldn't cause me to immediately discard.
Bacillus is one of the most common bacteria, there are many forms. I culture both Lacto Bacillus and Bacillus Thuringiensis Israelensis. Bac is everywhere, on everything, your skin, hair, milk, yogurt. you can just a bout take a sample of anything and see the rod shaped bacteria under a microscope.
 
deej2

deej2

Well-Known Member
Shit can them. Start over. I've done a handful of grows, with grains(popcorn and whole oats) and with BRF in 1/2 pint jars. As Cindysid noted, I've had much better luck as a noob with the BRF cakes(0% contams, versus 20-30% for grain jars-my technique needs work). Plus with BRF cakes you can fruit the cakes themselves in a SGFC or crumble to bulk in a bin. Good luck.
 
cindysid

cindysid

Well-Known Member
In jars, it only takes me a little over 3 weeks from injection to fruit. When you get tired of screwing around with that bag, you might want to try it. Just sayin'. Not being a smart ass, just trying to help. I truly believe that they are good medicine for the soul.
 
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