Full organic Sour Grapes clone HPS and SCRoG

Discussion in 'Stealth / Micro / Cab Growing' started by Shredder420, Oct 23, 2012.


    Shredder420 Member

    Hey what's up y'all? Been goin at it for a lil while on my second grow. I have a semi-stealth cabinet with a sunburst convertible 250W ballasted hood that I'm currently running a 150W HPS bulb in. Sour Grapes clone was donated by a good friend of mine to get me jump-started on this grow. I took the clone home and immediately transplanted from the coco coir cup it was in to the 3 gallon 'dirt pot' with my custom soil mix I've been working at. Within a few days she started to show tell-tale signs of pulling out of a deficiency. Was a slight magnesium def. showing with purpling stems and leaf lightening in some areas.

    The water I feed her is Walmart spring water that starts out at 7.5 and I add usually 1/2 teaspoon GO Calmag+ to bring my gallon down to 6.5 - I had horrible results from using only distilled water last grow, and dealing with pH lockouts and all kinds of crap... so this is all still experimental phase.
    The soil I am using is Kellogg's Patio plus which is a very similar mix to the FFOF, it carried my last grow all the way into week 2 of flower straight from the bag. I added dolomite lime and azomite powder to the soil mix in appropriate amounts this time. I now have some FoxFarms Big Bloom and BioBizz biobloom for when things start getting to that point. Everything in my soil mix and nutrient-wise is full organic, no synthetics here whatsoever.
    I have just been watering when container is light, only about 3 times so far... and gave her a foliar spray the other night after lights out of some Epsom Salts mixture. Her stems have been slowly fading out the purpling and stripes and all new growth is looking great and green. My buddy who gave her to me is also working on the Mg def. himself and we're almost postive it was effects of the coir, since his that are in soil are legit.

    ..Anyways, I built a scrog screen for about $15 outta PVC, screws and 18ga wire.
    My box dimensions are 28"W x 36"H x 16" D, roughly 3.125 square feet and around 9 cubic feet of room.
    Screen height is roughly 12-13 inches from floor of cabinet and about 4 inches above soil.\
    150W HPS, temps are 72F at night (It's hot as hell here) and top out at 79F in the day. Perfect!
    She has been FIM'd once about a week ago and screen training has begun!
    I've had her for almost 3 weeks now. Growth is picking up and getting very noticable by the day! I am very excited and eager to put my new knowledge to the test.
    Ok, I'll shut up now and show you what's goin on.

    The day she came home

    Day before the screen went up

    The day the screen went up, and an overall shot of it.

    And after some FIMing and training, here she is today! Gettin Bushy!
    IMG_20121023_110030.jpg IMG_20121023_110050.jpg

    GeTcha PULL!

    Shredder420 Member

    over 200 views and nobody has anything to say? questions? comments? suggestions? I promise I'm a nice guy don't be scurred

    mr.lightgr3en Active Member

    Nice man
    im planning on purchasing a 250w soon.
    Its not bad if you put a 150w bulb with a 250w

    Also I think I might have some kind of lockout
    Or it just might be bugs.

    But in what way does the Epsom salt help?
    Thanks man and im excited to see
    What this grow give you
    Subbed =D
    Happy growing

    Shredder420 Member

    hey thanks... I'm assuming the ballast is safe, because i have the convertible model that can use both MH or HPS bulbs, and plus the guy i bought it from gave it to me with both bulbs.

    as far as lockouts or bugs there are none, as I mentioned earlier, my friend whom I got the clone from was having Magnesium deficiencies in almost all of his plants, and now with the soil she's in she's been recovering quite fast and growth has picked up to a steady daily pace now. all new growth is legit, with leaves looking healthy and green all the way through, but some of the older leaves are showing the lightened edges that are common with a Mg def. and I don't really expect them to change much cuz it looks like the damage has been done on them.
    Epsom salt is pure Magnesium sulfate and I didn't want to add any unnecessary stuff to the soil, especially something as touchy as magnesium, so I just foliar sprayed after the lights out for the leaves themselves to absorb magnesium and I would have to say it really worked the way others have claimed. on all new growth the leaves are full and rich in green color and not showing any signs of lockouts or deficiencies like they were when she first went into soil. My soil mix is very rich in nutrients and by adding the azomite i have added substantial amounts of trace minerals and micronutrients that most soils do not have. My water also has the Calmag+ and I pH every time I water with a digital pH pen. She's been fed at 6.5 so far and I have yet to measure runoff, but I am not concerned because the soil to begin with is pH buffered to 6.8 I believe and the lime I added helps stabilize the pH in the long run. Plus, this is a fully organic grow, so by feeding her correctly like I am, things should run fairly smooth because the microbial life takes over and does most of the work. I will eventually flush around the time i flip for flower, but only once, and if it needs it based on runoff measurements. The accumulation of salts is usually the reason to flush, as they lower the pH of soil, I've experienced that firsthand... but theoretically I have covered my bases with the lime in that area and it really shouldn't be a problem. for example, my last grow i used nothing but the plain soil from the bag - no lime or azomite - and my plants did great with no lockouts or deficiencies until about 2 weeks into flower... and then again, it was mainly my fault because I was using distilled water, which had a pH of about 5.5 and I had no clue about any of this stuff. I do a shitload of reading on here, especially when I run into issues. I tend to be OCD and quite the perfectionist when it comes to any problems I run into, because if I don't feel like I know what the problem is - it bugs me so bad I can't stop thinking about it until I either have a solution or a plan for a solution. sometimes this ends up keeping me up all night with 5 million tabs in my browser and 1,000 bookmarked pages. LOL but thanks for the reply, I type way too much, just be glad you're not here in person getting stoned with me I wouldn't ever shut the fuck up. HAHA!
    technical dan

    technical dan Active Member

    Looks good. How wide are the squares in your screen?

    Shredder420 Member

    thanks for stopping by! they are roughly 2x2 inches using 18 gauge wire

    Shredder420 Member

    Just posting a quick update to show where she's at so far. I'm planning to keep updating every weekend or so, just to keep things rolling :joint:
    She seems to be pulling out of the deficiency and looking better by the day.
    here she is a few hours before lights out...

    scroglodyte Well-Known Member

    copper is not a good materiel for screen. plants shy away from copper. see: "bonsai"

    Shredder420 Member

    I am using 18 gauge wire that is coated in red rubber. I didn't want anything metallic touching the plant, water and metal usually don't go together. I'm a beginner, but not that naive.

    scroglodyte Well-Known Member

    cool............looked like Cu to these old eyes.

    Shredder420 Member

    well, hey that wouldn't be the first time the HID lighting caused some trickery.. thanks though, I appreciate the concern, sometimes nobody speaks up on things like that.

    Shredder420 Member

    Just watered her today and figured it's the weekend, so probably should post something. I have just been letting her tops stretch and slowly pulling them under the squares and spreading her day by day. I haven't trimmed much growth below the screen, I am waiting until the screen fills out a little more before making any cuts on something that could eventually make it to the screen. Do any of you scroggers cut away fan leaves or trim your plants during veg? I am also looking for ways to hang my light up higher, even if it is only an inch or two. I'm thinking of replacing the upside-down V brackets with some thick wire or something I can make shorter??? IDK, i'm just spitting out ideas in hopes of somebody else chiming in. Well, here's some pics so enjoy.

    IMG_20121103_224731.jpg IMG_20121103_224705.jpg IMG_20121103_224742.jpg IMG_20121103_224659.jpg

    IMG_20121103_224803.jpg IMG_20121103_224755.jpg IMG_20121103_224827.jpg
    IMG_20121103_224920.jpg IMG_20121103_224906.jpg

    Psilobloom Active Member

    Looking VERY good Shredder, I like I like

    Shredder420 Member

    Thanks, it's nice to start seeing the hard work pay off. Can't wait till flowering time comes, I hear she flowers quick.

    Shredder420 Member

    Ok, time for an update. I have some questions for anybody to help with labeled in red, PLEASE!!! I watered her about 3 days ago and measured runoff for the first time. the pH was at 6.7 going in (spring water using GO camg+ for pH) and came out at 7.4. this worried me so I gave her another gallon at 6.0 and the runoff was at 7.0... now here we are 3 days later and I gave her a gallon of distilled that read 5.8 out of the jug and the runoff came out at 9.0!!! This kinda freaked me out, so i gave her another gallon of my spring water mixed with camg+ at 6.0 and the lowest reading I got was 8.3... The runoff always looks super dark, so I tasted some and it literally tastes like nothing, no salty or metallic taste. The plant is slowly getting worse and I am seeing signs of lockouts/deficiencies and am clueless what to do. My last grow did better up to this point, and I was using nothing but distilled water. I am thinking that I'm messing things up by pH'ing my water??? I haven't really fed her much in the way of amendments and such because I figured my soil should have basic veg nutrients. Could I be wrong? does anybody think I should just start feeding her more and let the soil do the work? I have already added dolomite lime from the beginning and it was the espoma garden lime that can be bought at home depot... after reading a review on amazon about it this is what somebody said,
    "I accidently Bought this bag not sure of what I should have bought. Now I know that this product is made up of "CLAY Pellets" that are rolled in dolomite lime and then baked in an oven. in short this is not the best kind of lime for your soil. you should get " PULVERIZED DOLOMITE LIME DUST" or something of the sort stay away from hydrated lime its for more professional gardeners. the reason for the "pulverized lime dust" is that lime regulates ph in soil and also helps to grow various other living organisms but lime only affects the soil it touches. so these pellets are far from ideal for good contact area. the dust is much better it dispereses more easily into your soil."
    Did I fuck it all up by using this product? is this why my pH is skyrocketing? this is super frustrating and it makes me wanna just do DWC next grow and say "fuck soil," because it's been nothing but a bitch for me - plus I end up spending so much time in my garden anyway so I think I'd be able to control hydroponics way easier... I don't care how much shit costs for hydro stuff either cuz I know if I get something dialed in at least it will be worth it in the long run. Soil just feels too inconsistent and like a guessing game for me. It is very tiring with the length of trial and error situations and I just wanna have healthy vibrant plants. Well, here are some pics and I welcome all posts.

    These were on Friday, I took her out from under the screen to measure runoff and this is what she looks like under incandescents, showing some leaves with problems.
    IMG_20121109_123606.jpg IMG_20121109_123429.jpg IMG_20121109_123557.jpg

    back under the screen

    and today... one under the HPS and the others using a lamp with a 5000k cfl bulb after lights out, just for picture lighting.
    IMG_20121112_170533.jpg IMG_20121112_235858.jpg IMG_20121112_235909.jpg IMG_20121112_235925.jpg IMG_20121112_235939.jpg

    I look forward to hearing input, I'd like to start flowering soon but I wanna get this all figured out first. Thanks to all.

    logika Member

    Looks droopy, could be overwatering. I never use distilled water as it is washing out all the soil and in my opinion messes up all the nutrients in soil. If your pH meter says that distilled water is anything but pH7 then consider that it`s not accurate. Yes you did fuck up the soil, preferably mix some nutes back in as you washed them out.

    Shredder420 Member

    I know I am not overwatering, and if I was at the time of pictures, it's because I was doing a lot of flushing/reading runoff. I also only used distilled water for the one-time flushing because I was reading such high pH runoff. I also have general hydroponics calibration fluid for the pH meter and it accurately calibrates at 7.0 every time I use it, so reading distilled water at around 5.8 can't be that unusual, especially from what I've seen others say. The plastic containers are obviously permeable and let carbon dioxide through which is what the distilled water absorbs to change the pH. I obviously used the wrong lime from the beginning, so no matter what I do to this soil it's pretty much fucked from the get-go. I just keep heavily feeding the soil and have been letting microbial action take over. I have even recently gotten sprintails in my soil, so I know it's pH is way off whack, and I'm leaving them in there not trying to kill them at all. The plant is slowly doing better as I keep the feedings low in pH. She still shows signs of nute lockout but I'm really done trying to fix this fucked up soil so I'm just letting her flower and finish here in about 4 weeks. After this plant is harvested, I'm giving all my soil shit to my mom so she can use it for her bogavia's or whatever the fuck she gardens nowadays. Then I'm going DWC and spending some time and money getting a decent legit LED setup all at the same time so I can have more flowering height and such. I'm done with soil for my indoor grows for the time being. other than that, I'm kinda like WTF-ever over this bitch so I'll update when I harvest.

    carman9941 Member

    if the product you used contains calcium hydroxide aka kalkwasser then it has a ph of 12 that is a product that we use to add ca to reef tanks

    Shredder420 Member

    So just to finish this grow up, I have harvested the plant. It ended up being around 7 weeks because the soil pH and everything else just got way out of control. I ended up doing a partial topping of the biggest top colas and got around 3.5 grams a week before I took the rest of the plant. everything together was 18 grams dry weight. not too bad considering that soil sucks ass and I'll never be using it again. as a matter of fact I'm going DWC if I didn't already mention that in an earlier post. I'm either going to get rid of my current cabinet or use it for a mother cab later. Either way my new setup will be a 2'x3'x5' tent with the DWC and hope to pick out an LED panel soon. here are some random pics along the way and sorry I have only my shitty cell phone camera to use right now. but for now, that's it until i figure out some more stuff for my next grow. I'm done going cheap and fucking stuff up so this should be a better run next time, plus my buddy who helps me out with growing stuff has more selections of mother plants now so who knows what I'll be growing next and definitely bigger yeilds. My first grow was 3.5 grams, LOL and this one 18 grams... meh.. so I'm hoping to get a lot more next time and I plan on investing with that in mind. till then, enjoy the low quality pics

    A little over a week before she got topped in these 3 pics.

    IMG_20121226_195748.jpg IMG_20121226_195754.jpg IMG_20121226_195759.jpg

    Then took these after the most finished tops were off and a few days before she came down completely
    IMG_20121227_175717.jpg IMG_20121227_175723.jpg

    And the drying shots along with the last pic of it right before going into jars.
    IMG_20130103_141710.jpg IMG_20130103_141717.jpg IMG_20130104_115341.jpg IMG_20130106_222947.jpg
    Rising Moon

    Rising Moon Active Member

    I think you over thought everything.

    DWC is alright, but the best quality home grown meds come from soil IMO.

    Look into super soil. Takes the guess work out, only give you plants plain water, and you get high quality organic medicine.

    No ppm meter, no ph lockout. Just follow the recipe.

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