Fracking

WyoGrow

Active Member
That pic about sums it up. to drill straight you rotate the entire string from surface with either a rotary or a top drive. The end with the bit on it also turns via hydraulic horsepower from the mud pumps pumping drilling mud down through the pipe, through the mud motor and past a stater that turns with the flow of the mud. When it is time to drill "directionally" you orien your bit based on the degree of offset you have on your motor. If you want to build from vertical up to 90 degrees horizontal to the south. You'd orient your "inclination" (up & down) dead south and your "azimuth" would be at 180 degrees on the compass.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
OK, I get it. Turns from the mud pressure. Good one. Thanks. One little detail? What kind of radius does it take to get to 90 degrees from the downhole angle? 100 feet? 500 feet?

Like the turn radius?
 

WyoGrow

Active Member
I depends on the output potential of the directional motor. The can be adjusted up and down. The higher the degree of the motor the more aggressive the motor builds angle while "sliding". Sliding is where you do not rotate the entire drill string. You just pump and the very end of the mud motor rotates. But say theoretically if your motor can maintain a 14 degree build rate per 100' drilled then you could go from vertical to horizontal in 650 or so feet of measured depth. It all depends on how aggressive of a curve you want. Too much build rate in too little measured depth created problems later on with getting the drill straing out of the hole and getting casing ran all the way to bottom. If your hole builds faster than the casing can bend under it's own weight then you can't case the hole.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Wow! Thanks. I was having trouble understand this ever since the North Slope oil debates. I get it now.
 

dtp5150

Well-Known Member
"The government of France disagrees with you....."
First off... I never said hydraulic fracturing was without risk. Hydraulic fracturing has been a standard completion practice for over half a century. So what exactly in my comment is there to disagree with??
the disagree part i guess is when u said this "The liberal media has latched onto "Fracing" as their new rallying cry as if this is some new dangerous procedure the evil oil companies have designed to rape the planet for profit"

Its kind of obvious that oil companies' plan has been to rape the planet for profit since the beginning. What delusional world are you living in where oil companies, mining companies, agriculture companies, lumber companies, etc care about the long term health of our planet and its citizens? Who designed Fracing then...hmm... magic ferries from Uranus? I realize they are probably supporting your lifestyle, and this heavily biases your opinion. The realtionship is much like every lobby group and the malleable elected officials.

Do people think an increase in production will translate to cost savings for us? If anything it will increase the already-record-breaking oil companies corporate profit margins!

Just because something has been for xxx amount of years doesnt mean its right. Think the racial, cultural, and women's rights movements for example. Farmers used to dump old tractor oil and old gas and what not in creeks, people would pour motor oil down drains, etc ....for many years it was standard practice! Just because things are how they are, doesn't mean its right!

And im sorry but didnt you also say when you're pumping acid down the earth at under 20000 psi you're trying to not have it come back up the casing?! How can you contradict yourself of the dangers so obviously and so quickly lol.
"When your tap water is flammable, it may pose a problem....."
I agree 100%.... but the presence of natural gas in surface water formation is a natural occurrence. If we are going to use families experiences for examples then my Aunt and Uncle drilled a water well on their property in the 60's. There wasn't a oil/gas well within 50+ miles of their property. And my Uncle blew himself off the toilet while smoking on the crapper..... natural gas can and DOES exist in formation drilled for use as potable water.
I think you're a little misguided on the cause/effect here. The reason they put traps in toilets is to stop the buildup of gasses such as methane in bathrooms. People blowing the bathroom up was a common problem if it was missed, especially if the people were smokers.

Even if you are saying somehow the methane gas accumulated due to the fresh water plumbing, it does little to prove how safe fracturing is due to another false cause/effect connection.

"Anyone who thinks that pumping millions of gallons of this type of concoction into the earth isn't harmful is deluding themselves....."
No argument there. You are 100% correct. But do you have the foggiest clue as to how these fracturing procedures are performed,monitored and controlled?? I'd wager no.Liberal loudmouths like Bill Maher like to go on and on about "fracing" while never getting around to the actual problem. Because if they did then they'd have to acknowledge the fact that the solution is simple, these incidents where hydraulic fracturing has contaminated could have been easily prevented and the fracturing procedure could have still been performed w/o incident. If they did there really wouldn't be anything to get up on a soap box over. Nothing to drum up fear about and in turn.... no attention for themselves.
yes, bill maher is a retard.

Because a chemical was made by humans does not mean it is safe.

Oil companies and epic huge fuckups.....BP could have not fucked up the gulf, or exxon alaska, if only proper procedure was used...har har
 

dtp5150

Well-Known Member
Personally, I would like to thank WyoGrow for his informative postings. To often, the only source of information/disinformation we get is emotional, biased, and/or partisan blather from people that have no idea what they're talking about. I would like to ask two questions of WyoGrow. How much of an increase in yield does this process give us? I've heard that this process could make us energy self-reliant for more than 100 years. Is this true?
Yes, more fossil fuel drilling is how we can become "energy self-reliant" and it will solve all our problems, and I even have a cup of coca cola and mcdonalds for you. And I gotta lol at your egotistic-responsibly-super-long outlook of 100 years...and people blamed computer programmers for not anticipating the y2k bugs....lol
 

dvs1038

Well-Known Member
y u kant spll smpl wrds n mke an stmnt w/o usn txt-tlk?

after a considerable delay due to translating your ramblings into language rather than bleating and fart noises, i have summed up your dim-witted gibberings into a few (sort of) salient points:

econauts are not just hippies looking for some specious reason to protest
wyo should ignore his professed expertise and first hand knowledge on the subject, and listen to the claims of the good people at HBO instead.
farmers raise beef ????? what???
the fracking proces uses "chems" (mostly buffout and psycho i'm assuming)
what do you call it when you hit a pressurized aquifer and water comes up with the evil drilling chemicals in it? (drilling chemicals?)
why dont you talk about how evil you are when you hit a small subsurface aquifer with your drilling chemicals? (what the fuck?)
whats with those pits? (im assuming he means water runoff pools)
whats up with those misters to make your chems (med-ex and rad-away) evaporate more quickly?
where do you put all your mentat, and stimpack laden water when you're done with it?
if your processes are so good, why keep them secret? (Y kant I haz sum understanding proprietary technology)
what about some dude whose name i cant remember who did something evil that i cant remember who did something else i cant remember but you now have to justify it?
what about the sacred national parks and shit?
why are big corporations are evil and being all corporationey in their corporation buildings with their corporation money they stole by being a corporation?
now heres some speculation, that i just made up but, isnt it true that maybe im not sure how anything works, but my opinion is more important than anybody else's??
what about non-disclosure agreement s and mineral rights? somebody explain the universe to me but use small words and lotsa pictures cuz im ignorant and have no attention span!

im gonna ignore most of your nonsensical ramblings and gibbering madness, and actually answer the only cogent question you raised.

Yes, some people buy land and do NOT retain the mineral rights. many times the mineral rights on a particular property are reserved to another person, company or even a governmental agency. usually these mineral rights DO NOT come with the right to drill mine or even access the land under which the presupposed minerals or oil reside. if the owner of the mineral rights wishes to exploit the minerals (if they even exist) they must buy adjoining land,, or negotiate for the right of access with the land owner. this is very common, especially in the west. farmers and ranchers (people who "farm" cows) will often allow oil or gas wells on their property for a fee, even if they dont own the mineral rights under their feet. if the oil gas or mining concern contaminates their land, the farmer or rancher is compensated, the mess is cleaned up and all sides agree to not discuss it for their MUTUAL protection. any farmer or rancher who has been fucked by an oil or gas company can sue the shit out of them, win and talk to their heart's content about how they got fucked by XYZ company. non-disclosure agreements are not exclusive to oil and gas companies, they are usually part of any out of court settlement, and are common as dirt.

Protip: learn to actually write in english rather than tardspeak!

go buy a book and read it, any book, even "twilight" will increase your brain power. stop watching tv, and just read ANYTHING
Sorry I lost this post for awhile, but anyways I love the fact that simply cause u don't like the way I say sumptin that u just figure to write it off and not answer. So I will say again what is ur response to former VP giving drilling rights to his former co. to how many millions of acres of previously protected BLM land? And ur right my posts may sound fairly stupid because I don't have any of the tech. info like you do from working in that field. So yes it is easy for you to make me sound like an idiot compared to someone that has been out there working with all the equipment and dealing with the other facets of the operation. But that doesn't change the fact that you simply want to call what I said tardspeak and dodge the answer. Sorry if I type things out in slang cause ur not worth my time to type everything in proper english, I bet ur the same type of person who thought strip mining shouldn't have been done away with back in the late 70's. And I've never read "Twilight", but I do enjoy reading "The Illiad & The Odessey", and as far as trash novels like "Twilight" I would have to say my weakness would be Stephen King, his Dark Tower series was pretty awesome, big fan of manga as well.

Ohh and when I say chemicals, the main reason I say it that way is because these companies that do frack drilling feel their mixture of lubricants and whatever else they use should be considered a protected recipe like McD's Big Mac secret sauce. Now I don't c them pumping secret sauce into the ground so they don't bother me as much as the Fracking Co. Do u feel it is their right to pump whatever they want into the ground or air without telling anyone what it is they r using?
 

purklize

Active Member
If fracking triggers earthquakes, perhaps environmentalists should support it. The civilized world doesn't handle shaking so well.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Sorry I lost this post for awhile, but anyways I love the fact that simply cause u don't like the way I say sumptin that u just figure to write it off and not answer. So I will say again what is ur response to former VP giving drilling rights to his former co. to how many millions of acres of previously protected BLM land? And ur right my posts may sound fairly stupid because I don't have any of the tech. info like you do from working in that field. So yes it is easy for you to make me sound like an idiot compared to someone that has been out there working with all the equipment and dealing with the other facets of the operation. But that doesn't change the fact that you simply want to call what I said tardspeak and dodge the answer. Sorry if I type things out in slang cause ur not worth my time to type everything in proper english, I bet ur the same type of person who thought strip mining shouldn't have been done away with back in the late 70's. And I've never read "Twilight", but I do enjoy reading "The Illiad & The Odessey", and as far as trash novels like "Twilight" I would have to say my weakness would be Stephen King, his Dark Tower series was pretty awesome, big fan of manga as well.

Ohh and when I say chemicals, the main reason I say it that way is because these companies that do frack drilling feel their mixture of lubricants and whatever else they use should be considered a protected recipe like McD's Big Mac secret sauce. Now I don't c them pumping secret sauce into the ground so they don't bother me as much as the Fracking Co. Do u feel it is their right to pump whatever they want into the ground or air without telling anyone what it is they r using?
writing in intelligible words is not just a good idea, its the only way to be understood.

the letter "B" or the number "4" are NOT an adequate replacement for entire words. unless the words are "Beta" or "Four"

the "chemicals" at question are certainly less hazardous that the shit used to grow your food, or sanitize industrial equipment used to prepare your HotPockets and Sunny Delight. your obliviousness to the facts of modern life tells me that you are most likely a college student (see if you can get your money back from the english classes, they were defective) and eventually you may actually get a job. if you prepare a resume or a report in the fashion of a Twatter post, then i suggest the unemployment line or an "occupy" encampment will be your only recourse for the future.

Mineral extraction companies from gold miners to oil drillers inform the NECESSARY persons of the processes and substances they use. those individuals are regulators and persons with a vested interest in the endeavor (you are unlikely to convince a cattle rancher to allow an oil or gas well on his land if you plan on using CowKiller #19 to lubricate the working parts) if you are NOT one of the neccessary persons, you have no right to expect them to clear their business with you. that would be stupid.

if you were to read the posts from monsieur WyoGrow, you would have been enlightened as to the nature of the material used in drilling which is a mud made from a powdered rock (benonite). the substances injected into played out wells to "hydraulically fracture" the remainder oil and gas and pump it to the surface is a secret, because it is most likely a pretty clever invention, and guarded by a patent, or a trade secret designation. you may be interested to know that the exact composition of coca cola, and Cheez Whiz are also quite closely guarded secrets too. does this mean cheez whiz is the substance used in "fracking"? it could well be. when heated to approximately 48 degrees Celsius, Cheez Whiz becomes a viscous semifluid incapable of mixing with water or most solvents. this high temperature semifluidic compound could be used to displace a wide array of other chemical compounds and substances, including petroleum and methane. as it cools, Cheez Whiz would also form a flexible impermeable barrier to re-infiltration of water and other substances, and could thus help reduce subsidence, sinkholes and other hazards from abandoned wells and mines. I say MORE CHEEZ WHIZ FRACKING!

Cheez Whiz! For Fuel, For Freedom, For Fritos!

Viva Los Quesos Synthetico!
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Its kind of obvious that oil companies' plan has been to rape the planet for profit since the beginning. What delusional world are you living in where oil companies, mining companies, agriculture companies, lumber companies, etc care about the long term health of our planet and its citizens? Who designed Fracing then...hmm... magic ferries from Uranus?

yes, bill maher is a retard.
It's obvious you have one frak right, you have magic ferries around Uranus! :)

This is just more of the false misleading rhetoric from the truly dis-informed. And such a puck ass approach with the baiting sarcasm.

Trolling with idiotic, rhetorical questions is just plain stupidity on your part. That's what kinda obvious, har har.

Raping the planet is we do, har har. But, all other than children, call it the survival of the species, caveman.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Yes, more fossil fuel drilling is how we can become "energy self-reliant" and it will solve all our problems, and I even have a cup of coca cola and mcdonalds for you. And I gotta lol at your egotistic-responsibly-super-long outlook of 100 years...and people blamed computer programmers for not anticipating the y2k bugs....lol
Ah, mirror looking. Get informed. Me programmer. We prepared like hell for y2K. But, there were no bugs, not those dooms day ones. There are always bugs.

You sound like a luddite.
 

dvs1038

Well-Known Member
2 Dr. Kynes I think ur Avatar paints a pretty good portrait of ur character a snob who looks down on the rest of society and feels ur better than everyone else. Ohhh I'm sorry I meant your, does the fact that I prefer to write the word before as b4 make you any more or less intelligent than me? Do you not understand the meaning behind b4, r u that bad of a problem or puzzle solver than makes b4 as a shortened version of the word before that I must type it out specifically for you. See there I won't use C or U since it might make it difficult for you to understand what I am saying here. Now I will admit 2 not reading everything and if I am wrong and fracking is safe then I have absolutely no problem with it, cause I am willing 2 admit if and when I'm wrong. But it seems that you guys simply wanna try and attack someone's intelligence for not wanting to type each word in perfectly spelled english. Hey lemme know when the operation is over, U know the one to get the stick removed from ur ass.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
2 Dr. Kynes I think ur Avatar paints a pretty good portrait of ur character a snob who looks down on the rest of society and feels ur better than everyone else. Ohhh I'm sorry I meant your, does the fact that I prefer to write the word before as b4 make you any more or less intelligent than me? Do you not understand the meaning behind b4, r u that bad of a problem or puzzle solver than makes b4 as a shortened version of the word before that I must type it out specifically for you. See there I won't use C or U since it might make it difficult for you to understand what I am saying here. Now I will admit 2 not reading everything and if I am wrong and fracking is safe then I have absolutely no problem with it, cause I am willing 2 admit if and when I'm wrong. But it seems that you guys simply wanna try and attack someone's intelligence for not wanting to type each word in perfectly spelled english. Hey lemme know when the operation is over, U know the one to get the stick removed from ur ass.
Don't worry, you can't hide your character. All idiotic typing is ignored. But, your content and tone is beneath contempt. And if you let your stupid show up, in the science section, it's at least worth a laugh, if not the commentary you invite, eh?
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I am compelled to ask what a viscous superfluid is. cn
when i was in school we were told that glass was a viscous semifluid, that flows slowly downward over the course of centuries while generally maintaining it's shape and resisting splattering

i had been reading about superfluids so i guess is typed with brain disengaged. but now i must go on the attack.

why do you hate Cheez Whiz so much?

why are you waging this war on Processed Cheese Products

children love Cheez Whiz, why do you want children to suffer?
 

WyoGrow

Active Member
"I realize they are probably supporting your lifestyle, and this heavily biases your opinion."
....and my "heavily biased' opinion also happens to be one of the few actually educated on this particular topic. You can disagree with all the points I make all you want. But the fact is I am the one in the discussion with the background, training and hands on experience when comes to hydraulic fracturing. But on that note I could argue that my opinion, based on fact, is far less "biased" than Mr Bill Maher's is based on bad science, neo-hippie rhetoric and flat out bullshit....

"Do people think an increase in production will translate to cost savings for us?"
Actually, that is exactly how it works. If it costs less to produce then the finished product costs less to the end consumer. That's exactly why Wally-World is pack floor to ceiling with shit made dirt cheap in China.....

"And im sorry but didnt you also say when you're pumping acid down the earth at under 20000 psi you're trying to not have it come back up the casing?! How can you contradict yourself of the dangers so obviously and so quickly lol."
I'm not going to bash you for not having the slightest idea of the mechanics behind well design or fracturing. But this statement makes it pretty damned obvious that you have no clue as to what you are arguing about. And for all the quoting of my comments you must not have read, processed nor comprehended it. I said that when fracturing you do not want the pressure to come back up the OUTSIDE of the casing. The entire reason wellbores are cased in the first place is to have a means to pump into and extract from the production zone. And yes, what you do pump into the ground under pressure comes back up the casing. No contradiction in that statement. None at all.

"I think you're a little misguided on the cause/effect here. The reason they put traps in toilets is to stop the buildup of gasses such as methane in bathrooms. People blowing the bathroom up was a common problem if it was missed, especially if the people were smokers."
Your sinks and shitters have gas traps to prevent your house from smelling like a sewer first and foremost. The cause is, sewers and septic tanks smell like shit and their atmosphere contains flammable and toxic gases. The effect is a gas trap. This is another comment I can't wrap my head around as how you can use it to further a anti-fracing opinion. You saying people launching themselves off the throne was an issue before gas traps. So, were all those people victims of hydraulic fracturing contaminated water??? Hell no!!!

"Yes, more fossil fuel drilling is how we can become "energy self-reliant" and it will solve all our problems, and I even have a cup of coca cola and mcdonalds for you."
Well since our entire modern economy is built on the basis of using fossil fuel as our energy source. Then I still have no issue saying that more domestic production will lower our foreign supply demand and in turn make our country more "energy self-reliant".... not too hard of a concept to grasp. And seeing how there is absolutely no alternative fuel/energy source infrastructure in place to just quit fossil fuel right now. Then I would say it behooves all of us to look into more effective and efficient fossil fuel exploration, recovery, refinement and consumption practices WHILE we build an alternative energy network big enough to handle current energy requirements. And I do mean current... not 50% or 90%. Because as much as most of the green wienies bitch and moan about fossil fuel "destroying the planet" couldn't conceive of the idea of being forced to abide by fuel rations, pay 20 times more for groceries because of the added shipping costs or be forced to endure systematic electricity blackout because the grid has more consumers than "green" energy input. Funny how so many people have such strong opinions and "convictions" right up until they are the ones that have to make personal sacrifices to further the agenda they so loudly endorse.

"And I gotta lol at your egotistic-responsibly-super-long outlook of 100 years"
Glad I could make you giggle..... it's only right, because I am laughing my ass off at your miserable attempt to prove yourself right at my expense. Go do a little research not supplied to you via Real Time with Bill Maher and give this argument another crack.
 

WyoGrow

Active Member
If fracking triggers earthquakes, perhaps environmentalists should support it. The civilized world doesn't handle shaking so well.
This is another one of the fantastic claims the anti-fracers are making now and it is ridiculous. Hot tip, the reason scientists are detecting more earthquakes is because every year there are more and more seismic observation stations going up. That and modern seismic equipment is on the order of 10,000 times more sensitive than it's predecessors. Of all these "new" earthquakes they are recording how many are so "minute" that they go unnoticed by even animals??? Damned near all of them!!!

The idea the oil is somehow lubricating tectonic plates is asinine. First off, that is a shitload of oil!!! If this were true then I'd say 100 years of oil left is a gross underestimation. Also the notion that a measly 12,000psi hydraulic frac is going to cause a earthquake is crazy. Earthquakes run in the range of trillions of pounds of stored energy being released.... not thousands. This flip side to this argument that argues itself is that ***IF*** fracing is causing mini-quakes. Then isn't that a good thing?? Shouldn't we be fracturing along major faults as a means to relieve tectonic stresses in small increments vs waiting around for "the big one"???
 

chrishydro

Well-Known Member
I look at it this way, if the companies that service are left un-regulated they will take short cuts and cover their tracks when there is an issue. If we would regulate it more there would be no issue.

Screw a well up, poison the water supply and they sue you. Everyone budgets for acceptable losses from law suites.

Find the guy that gave the order or okd the shortcut and give him life and shit would not happen.
 
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