First SCROG failed to impress - how to improve?

Uncle Ben said:

Not if grower 'A' has his hung 4' above the canopy and grower 'B' has his hanging 6' above.... both systems being identical.

There aren't two 1000W lamp systems that when measured with a quality f.c. light meter will register the same lumens at the same distance from the midpoint of the lamp. The age of the bulb, type of hood, distance from the canopy, garden profile and many other factors play into what the plant actually uses regarding photons for photosynthesis.

It was a joke on noobs.

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The LIGHT in YOUR garden is always constant its the light YOU are using!! What are u talking about its diferent in everyones grow? No shit. GPW is a measurement regardless of a 400-600-1000 w etc... Using a standard MH for veg and HPS for bloom, you should have a target range of producing 1 GPW on average for most strains give or take depending on the variety. Some will produce more, some will produce less.

BUT, if YOU are running the same strains continuously in YOUR garden using the SAME light source, THEN measuring GPW regarding yields is a good measurement. Wsp w this every garden is different BS? It doesnt matter what u are running. If u got 600w lamps u wanna get 600 grams per bulb. If YOU run 1000w bulbs you want to try and get 1000 grams per bulb. Whats so difficult to use that as a standard of measurement for yield? Its the perfect measurement because in YOUR garden its the only constant variable throughout your grow besides your room size which is also gonna be constant. It doesnt matter what anyone else is doing for lights or room size. LOL what are u guys talking about?

A 10 x 10 room with 2 (1000w) bulbs u wanna shoot for 2000 grams.

If your running a 12 x 12 room with 6 (600w) bulbs u wanna shoot for 3600 grams or 1 gpw.

It dont matter who joe blow is using for bulb size or grow room space. Its a target and standard for yield. Almost every seed company on the market uses GPW or Grams per sq/meter because the footprint of your light covers X amount of space. Which is usually 2-2.5 sq meters. I showed u the breakdown that GPW and Gram per sq/meter are almost identical. Therefore if GPW wasnt a good unit of measurement then the math for Grams per sq/meter wouldn't have similar/identical results, BUt IT DOES, because it is a useful measurement of YOUR garden and yield in comparison to your light output.

HUH? Idk where u guys r coming up with the stuff.. U need to break down where ur coming from because I am lost by u telling me that the light in my rooms arent constant when they are all 1000w bulbs that NEVER change. GPW is GPW it doesnt matter if its 1000w or 600w your yield is gonna be smaller on 600s compared to 1000w everytime because its double the output, lol. What r u guys talking about? Seriously confused for real, making no sense period.

It doesnt matter how far your light is from canopy or how old your bulbs are, thats your fault if you dont hang your light in the appropriate range, and u didnt go buy new bulbs when your bulbs were used! WTF does that have to do w GPW? NOTHING! Nothing at all!! Come on man u just trying to argue to argue if u believe that non-sense.

GPW is a result of u measuring your independent variables. You take your inputs which is your light source and your yield and you divide it to get your GPW. If u fuck up and run your room too hot, or stress your plants, or run too small a pot, those r factors that will prove that your grow isnt dialed in because your GPW is gonna be alot lower then the goal of 1 GPW.

Nothing your saying is even relevant. LOL. Your talking about nonsense. If u keep your light 30 inches from canopy compared to 10 inches from canopy and u harvest 100@ grams off 1 light and 1000 grams off the other light, then wtf does it matter? It doesnt!! U still got 1 gpw..

SMH. Sometimes arguing with know it alls just makes u dumber. These guys just bring u down to their levels and then beat u down w experience..

This is the most ridiculous argument i ever seen on here, this guys talking about shit that has NOTHING to do w measuring GPW.

GPW = Light size in watts/number of grams

It dont matter anything else is irrelevant. Temperature, humidity, strain, pot size anything else dont matter. If u dont hit close too or above 1 GPW then all shit I listed are the things u change because ur room isnt dialed in. You dont go oh I got 350 grams off this 600w so let me buy a 1000w to get 600 grams. NO thats the same shit, you go and fix ur environment or feeding schedule so u can get the 600 grams off the 600w bulb!! Come on man stop arguing ur killin us for real. Ur not that stupid that u believe this r u being serious or u just wanna argue about shit again? Thats a serious question cuz u being ridiculous man.

RM3 said:

Not only are the various light sources different but increasing yield via light is limited. All of the major ways to increase yields have nothing to do with lights, bigger pots, longer veg time, different styles ie; LST, Mainlining, Scrog, SOG etc. And let's not forget genetics

A better measuring stick would be area as in my garden is 5X5, some have a 3X3, some have a 4X4, some have a 10X10. The better question for a grower to ask themselves is what can I do to increase yields in my area ?

Doing area, light becomes a bigger variable in the tweaking process, you can up the wattage ie; go from a 600 to 1000, you can add side lighting, you can implement a light mover.

As a prime example, I have a grower friend that has 80 plants under a light mover in a 12X30 garden space. The light mover has 3 lights on it 2 600's and a 400 or 1600 watts. Now lets say that he hits 2 ounces per plant (a conservative estimate) X 80 plants is 4528 grams or 2.8 gpw

I hope this helps every one see the fallacy of grams per watt

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My dude, if u add side lighting or increase your area that dont matter if u got a 1000w bulb and u add 600w of say CFL bulbs then u aint running 1000w ur running 1600w so if u aint pulling down 1600 grams or close to that which is 1 gpw then u need fix ur room. Or if u strain only can get 0.8 gpw and ur getting 0.5 gpw then u change factors. U cant say oh im only getting 600 grams of my 1000w lamp which is under 0.6 gpw so in order for me to do better im gonna add 800w of cfl and side lighting to get 1000 grams off my "1000w" main lamp. Ur no longer running 1000w u r running 1800w.

Omg u r arguin about pointless shit, thats dumbest thing i ever heard for real. Come on son.

And there aint no way in hell ur using a light mover and hitting those numbers. Light movers are garbage and a waste of money straight up everyone knows that lol. If u use 1600w ur only hitting roughly 1600 grams lets say everyhing was perfect on a super yielding strain u be lucky get 1200 grams w a light mover. Or EVERYONE would be using 1 (1000w bulb and a light mover on a 30 x 30 room with 200 plants and getting 30 pounds off 1 light!!)

WOW and u guys think this dude is legit telling ppl BS information like using a light mover w 1600 total watts produces 4000+ grams ???

Hahahahahhahahahahahah yeah fuckin right dude seriously straight liar.. Holy shit Ive heard it all now.

Imma switch all 6 of my 1000s and just use 2 of them w light movers and get wayy more cuz the light moves around the room? Buahahahahahhahahahh WTF!!!

Stop smoking that shit my dude u r cooked!!!

Well PK, I don't know where you get your notions but he was actually hitting 2 to 3 oz's per plant, growin em to 3 feet and doin CO2 injection in da room

RM3 said:

Well PK, I don't know where you get your notions but he was actually hitting 2 to 3 oz's per plant, growin em to 3 feet and doin CO2 injection in da room

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Yeah right ok lmao

1600 watts on 80 plants w a light mover yielding 4000+ grams. Get the fuck outta here bro u got more shit comin out ur mouth then a sanitation plant. Noone believes that ridiculous non sense go somewhere w that, only a moron or green dude in the game would believe that shit ur sprayin. U dont even believe that yourself. Thats another online whale tale and war story from the keyboard warriors u guys pretend to be on here.

Like i always say u guys come online and its like u joined the army cuz u can be all u can be on the internet. If u got 1600w w a light mover u b lucky get 1000 grams cuz 75% of your plant are in the shade every few minutes, that gonna make airy larfy ass buds and u aint gettin ounces per plant. BS! When i first started and them light rails came out i tried them and saving money using 1-2 lights they dont do shit they r garbage nobody uses that ghetto ass shit anymore fuz they dont work period. Come on son bring that to the noob section maybe someone believe u over there lol

Hahahahaha. This shit is the truth right now.

pk_boosted2 said:

It doesnt matter how far your light is from canopy or how old your bulbs are, thats your fault if you dont hang your light in the appropriate range, and u didnt go buy new bulbs when your bulbs were used! WTF does that have to do w GPW? NOTHING! Nothing at all!! Come on man u just trying to argue to argue if u believe that non-sense.

GPW is a result of u measuring your independent variables. You take your inputs which is your light source and your yield and you divide it to get your GPW. If u fuck up and run your room too hot, or stress your plants, or run too small a pot, those r factors that will prove that your grow isnt dialed in because your GPW is gonna be alot lower then the goal of 1 GPW.

Nothing your saying is even relevant. LOL. Your talking about nonsense. If u keep your light 30 inches from canopy compared to 10 inches from canopy and u harvest 100@ grams off 1 light and 1000 grams off the other light, then wtf does it matter? It doesnt!! U still got 1 gpw..

SMH. Sometimes arguing with know it alls just makes u dumber. These guys just bring u down to their levels and then beat u down w experience..

This is the most ridiculous argument i ever seen on here, this guys talking about shit that has NOTHING to do w measuring GPW.

GPW = Light size in watts/number of grams

It dont matter anything else is irrelevant. Temperature, humidity, strain, pot size anything else dont matter. If u dont hit close too or above 1 GPW then all shit I listed are the things u change because ur room isnt dialed in. You dont go oh I got 350 grams off this 600w so let me buy a 1000w to get 600 grams. NO thats the same shit, you go and fix ur environment or feeding schedule so u can get the 600 grams off the 600w bulb!! Come on man stop arguing ur killin us for real. Ur not that stupid that u believe this r u being serious or u just wanna argue about shit again? Thats a serious question cuz u being ridiculous man.

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right. let me ask you a noob question since you claim to know what you are talking about. because there's something really basic which is confusing me. so when you buy seeds the companies will say 400-600 grams per square meter or 100 grams per square meter etc. but how many plants is that for. does that mean that, that is what you should be pulling regardless of if it's 5 large plants taking up a square meter or 10 smaller ones, or does it mean if the whole entire space is completely packed with bud sites like say a screen of green. im running 10 plants atm (afgooey and og kush). my plants are about 1 meter to 1.3 meters tall. i can fit about 4-5 per square meter with 1 1000watt under per square meter. so should i be pulling the breeders advertised grams per square meter?. i haven't really used any training techniques. the plants do have lots of bud sites that are exposed using bamboo stakes. but anyway my case or plants isn't the point. the main thing i was wandering is. what is the breeders GPSM based on. in terms of plant number and training or growing techniques. cheers.

Someone pull a red card, sounds like a bunch of horse shit to me.

1600 watts and getting 4000 grams

That is more than 2 grams per watt, how many people do you know that do that? Not a damn one of them.

opiumfiend said:

right. let me ask you a noob question since you claim to know what you are talking about. because there's something really basic which is confusing me. so when you buy seeds the companies will say 400-600 grams per square meter or 100 grams per square meter etc. but how many plants is that for. does that mean that, that is what you should be pulling regardless of if it's 5 large plants taking up a square meter or 10 smaller ones, or does it mean if the whole entire space is completely packed with bud sites like say a screen of green. im running 10 plants atm (afgooey and og kush). my plants are about 1 meter to 1.3 meters tall. i can fit about 4-5 per square meter with 1 1000watt under per square meter. so should i be pulling the breeders advertised grams per square meter?. i haven't really used any training techniques. the plants do have lots of bud sites that are exposed using bamboo stakes. but anyway my case or plants isn't the point. the main thing i was wandering is. what is the breeders GPSM based on. in terms of plant number and training or growing techniques. cheers.

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Well to answer simplistically. Its assuming your running a standard veg time 4-5 weeks. Obviously utilizing your space. Its just a general guideline i used as an example. Of course if u ran 2 plants for 2 weeks veg and they were small u arent gonna get those numbers. Its assuming ur running a standard garden and packing the space with decent sized plants.

Newbie, newb, noob, n00b, noobie, n00bie or nub is a slang term for a novice or newcomer, or somebody inexperienced in any profession or activity.

The "noob" or "n00b" variant was started in the early hacking and online gaming community who had/has a penchant for creatively changing the spelling of commonly used words such as; hacker to h4x0r, elite to 1337, porn to pr0n. Example; "U R an ub4r 1337 h4xor".

But I digress...I get 1 Million Grams Per Watt. But that's because it run L-10 Activated Helium Runners on a 4 Plexer. Combine that with Flooded Injection Ports timed on a milicycle Column and you are good to go!

Whenever anyone is trying to do Scrog using trellising or tie down methods you have to be familiar with your strain. Since there are so many different varieties of cannabis finding specific strains that respond well to different growing methods will make a huge impact on overall yield.

For the most part sativa dominant strains dont tend to do very well since they grow long and lanky plants. you want to get a strain that grows bushy and can be scrog or trellised i would focus on a variety that grows in such a manner where you will benefit from using these methods to enhance your yields.

I never use the low stress training as I find that simply topping and pruning the plants properly will result in what you are most likely trying to achieve which is stout short and bushy plants with plenty of tops. Only time you want to low stress train is when you have ceiling height restrictions or space problems.

Regaring light coverage I wouldnt ever exceed a 5x5 on a 1000w or a 4x4 on a 600w. Its important and what I like to do is measure the corners of the reflector I use I like blockbusters or magnum xxl hoods. And figure out a perfect 5x5 area even on all sides and then use tape on the floor to outline the area. That way I can focus all plants into that area and use either styrofoam insulation boards or cardboard with reflective material or paint white and trap all light inside of that area so it can bounce and reflect all light onto plants in that space. Using the corner of your rooms for each light is also very good way to trap that light. Anything that doesnt get absorbed into that space is just wasting the light. I promise this makes a huge difference believe it or not!

Regarding trellising your plants in general is an okay method to grow similar to sea of green where you are basically just focusing all of your light on the canopy and upper portions of the plant. Doing this method it is important to lollipop and clean all underbrush to focus on the main tops since very little light is going to penetrate the canopy. Problem with trellising is that its hard to maneuver once the trellising is up and if you have a problem or need to move plants or anything else its near impossible to get around in a packed room. But they do work very well when done correctly as you are able to focus all light over a specified area and concentrate on the main tops which can definetely impact your yields in a positive way! Its also a pain in the ass not only setting them up but also when its harvest time as it can be a nightmare cutting down plants that are woven into trellis. I ran trellising for years until more recently where I prefer the next method. Which is staking!!

IMHO simply using tomatoe stakes and green zip string or tape works best at opening up the plant and supporting it at the same time. This method also works better when running heavily packed rooms with large plants and gives you ability to rotate and turn your pots every few days to get light coverage over entire plant which is very beneficial. When you trellis and screen plants they are stuck where they are from time you set it up til harvest. Nothing better than some nice stakes and support for big branches with same ability to open the plant up. I like to stake the plants putting them on a 45* angle from middle stalk outside creating basically V's around the pot and pulling main stalks out to tops so light hits all parts of the branch down to the bottom portion where you get entire stalks full of buds. Some people also like to teepee the stakes basically taking 3-4 stakes and meeting them in the middle. Doing this you can simply support your main branches and then use tape or string to attach other side branches off your main ones and has little impact on the light penetration.

Just find the best method for yourself theres always ways to improve and tryin new things never hurts. Even if its fails at least you leanred something new and know what to do or not to do for your next run. I find running 6-9 plants in either 5 or 7 gallon pots is the best way to get 2 lbs per light (depends on strain some just wont produce anymore than 1.5) its just not in its genetics. Kind of like having 2 parents that are 5 ft tall the odds of you ever being 6 ft tall are pretty slim. And people claiming to get the glorious 3 lbs per light indoors might be telling some fishing tales. Ive heard of some master growers out in spain and europe claiming there are some critical varieties that can get 3 lbs a light but thats some shit for the record books and id like to see it with my own eyes before I go believing all that jazz. If you can get a good pound and a half of premium buds not the popcorn and larf shit included in dry weight you know what youre doing. 2 lbs a light is considered an expert grower if you hit that consistently you can write some books because those are good results and you obviously know what youre doing. Im happy with 1.75 a light on average if I can get 10 lbs off every 6 lights I do than thats good. I wouldnt go believing everyone who claims they get 2 lbs per light everytime unless you know them and you see it or they are very credible sources. Many will agree. If you are gettin 2 lbs per light consistently please share your info and what youre using for nutrients and medium and maybe we can all get there one day

I always chuckle when I hear the term GPW. GPWH(grams per watt hour) is the way to measure production. So you got 1 gpw. After and 8-10 veg prior to flower. Yet another grower gets 1 gpw with only a 4 week veg. Easy to tell whos garden is most productive.

Alexander Supertramp said:

I always chuckle when I hear the term GPW. GPWH(grams per watt hour) is the way to measure production. So you got 1 gpw. After and 8-10 veg prior to flower. Yet another grower gets 1 gpw with only a 4 week veg. Easy to tell whos garden is most productive.

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What if you got 1 gpw off 4 plants on 8 wk veg and the 4 week veg used 12 plants?

If you have plant restrictions like most med grows what other way is there to measure than gpw? Everyone runs 12 hours on and 12 off so the only constant thing in your grows is the light. The plant number is not fixed, not the strain isnt fixed, the room size isnt fixed, climate isnt fixed. The only factor in all grows using 1000w bulbs is the bulb which is yor output so thats dependent on your bulb.

So in all reality the gpw is the best way to measure your output. Nothing else matters because nothing else is constant besides the fact you are running a 1000w ballast for 12 hours.

So idk why anyone else would measure anything but gpw since thats your input and your results are the output. Simple mathematical equation. X amount of light produces Y amount of bud

Or a complete equation would be

X = watts (bulb size) divided by the number of grams produced = Y (grams per watt)

Theres no other way of measuring it

Only argument people could make is veg time but the problem is that veg time has nothing to do with bloom time.

Since all plants that go into bloom only receive 12 hours of light from start to finish it doesnt matter the time you vegged because the equation for yield is only determined by hours of light on a fixed unit of watts.

Regardless if someone spent 4 weeks or 8 weeks of veg the only thing that changes is the hours of usage or electricity bill used to grow the 2 lbs per light at the end of the day all you got is 2 pound per light so what else is there to talk about?

If you put plants into a room for 8 weeks of bloom and you get 2 pounds no mater what than yah the 4 week veg opposed to 8 weeks may save you moneybut you still only got 1 gpw or 2 pounds per light

Now if u vegged for 4 weeks and got 2.5 pounds per light vs 8 week veg at 2 pounds well than that something to talk about but than again you would also be getting more gpw so you see it all goes back to gpw because thats the output.

People dont just come up wih things if they dont make sense. GPW is used by alot of people because it a simple formula.

People on these forums try and debunk common sense and call things stupid that make total sense leading to confusion which shouldnt be the case

GPW is a good measurement because it makes sense. if you can give me a better measurement than gpw i would love to hear it??

Now if you are gonna talk about ** efficiency than LED's would be the exception since they run half the draw watts as they are able to produce in comparison to HID's. Most 800w equivalent units only draw half the watts from wall and can yield more than a gpw of draw power. So getting more than a GPW would be understandable at explaining that theory. But it would still be measured in GPW so you would still be back at the same argument.

Most people talking about a GPW are talking about standard 600w and 1000w HID's.

Cannabil said:

Only argument people could make is veg time but the problem is that veg time has nothing to do with bloom time.

Since all plants that go into bloom only receive 12 hours of light from start to finish it doesnt matter the time you vegged because the equation for yield is only determined by hours of light on a fixed unit of watts.

Regardless if someone spent 4 weeks or 8 weeks of veg the only thing that changes is the hours of usage or electricity bill used to grow the 2 lbs per light at the end of the day all you got is 2 pound per light so what else is there to talk about?

If you put plants into a room for 8 weeks of bloom and you get 2 pounds no mater what than yah the 4 week veg opposed to 8 weeks may save you moneybut you still only got 1 gpw or 2 pounds per light

Now if u vegged for 4 weeks and got 2.5 pounds per light vs 8 week veg at 2 pounds well than that something to talk about but than again you would also be getting more gpw so you see it all goes back to gpw because thats the output.

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root space availability comes into play with a longer veg time.. you yield more allowing the majority of rooting being done in flower ime.

ThaProdiG said:

root space availability comes into play with a longer veg time.. you yield more allowing the majority of rooting being done in flower ime.

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.. off the point ^^ um.. then gpw doesnt necessarily measure efficiency... Just yield pertaining to the light used... if time doesnt factor in then the measurement holds no actual use... like if i harvest twice in the time you harvest once... and i yield more from the 2 harvests than you did in the one... technically i get more gpw/

Cannabil said:

People dont just come up wih things if they dont make sense. GPW is used by alot of people because it a simple formula.

People on these forums try and debunk common sense and call things stupid that make total sense leading to confusion which shouldnt be the case

GPW is a good measurement because it makes sense. if you can give me a better measurement than gpw i would love to hear it??

Now if you are gonna talk about ** efficiency than LED's would be the exception since they run half the draw watts as they are able to produce in comparison to HID's. Most 800w equivalent units only draw half the watts from wall and can yield more than a gpw of draw power. So getting more than a GPW would be understandable at explaining that theory. But it would still be measured in GPW so you would still be back at the same argument.

Most people talking about a GPW are talking about standard 600w and 1000w HID's.

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then gpw doesnt necessarily measure efficiency... Just yield pertaining to the light used... if time doesnt factor in either, then the measurement holds no actual use... say if i harvest twice in the time you harvest once... and i yield more from the 2 harvests than you did in the one... technically i get more gpw/