First hydro/aero setup questions

E

euansteve

Member
First time grower, long time reader.


I have decided on a certain type of setup, which I have seen many times but never firsthand, only seen soil grows.

Aiming for 30 plants

I am going to label my ideas with numbers so where you see a mess up, question, or better idea you can let me know easier

The idea so far, which is open to suggestions:

1. One room to start the grow with Mylar or black & white stapled on wooden posts.
2. Air intake with carbon filter with exhaust silencer and osculating fan

3.I want to start a hydro setup so I guess i would start with a cloner in a medium of some sort of medium, this is a confusing are for me as I have never seen this done before.
4. I'm assuming i will put my clones... might start from seeds now :/ not so sure about the transfer from soil to hydro.
5. watched a you tube video on it called "Quickstop - HowToGrowGuide Ep.1 - How to transfer soil clones to hydroponic DWC Pt.2" so I don't think it would be to much of a problem, like how he put some rocks into help support the weight

6. I'm assuming i will have them in separate pots with holes for drainage with the pots elevated over a plastic container with a separate reservoir
7. with a small pump leaving from the reservoir drip feeding each plant. then return to the reservoir.
8. nutrients for hydro clones needs a bit of insight from a pro if I could get some advice would be great.

9. After they are ready to be put into the main grow room built the same way as before
10. I am hoping this will work the setup consists of: 3 large plastic sewage pipes with holes cut to size for river baskets.
11. With a small pump probably from this page due to the price for replacements http://www.cheaphydroponics.com/category-s/1861.htm
12. one pump will be for each pipe, each pipe being set at an angle of roughly 15 degrees to allow for drainage.
13. this will drain to the reservoir back to the pump and again back to the river baskets. (diagram can be uploaded)
14. Question on transferring from smaller river pots to larger ones if roots wrap around the bottom of the pots because i need them to be long enough depending on the answer to the next question
15.Question on means of delivery to each plant, should I let it run freely down the pipes or have misting or sprinkler heads through the pipe?
16. I will continue the grow until harvest.

Apart from nutrients, ventilation, Noise, harvest, disease, cleaning, etc. things like this I've missed out at the moment because i don't want to be completely overloaded with information.
Which I'm sure I'll have questions on later. Will this work or should I stick with the traditional soil grow.
The more I write the better soil sounds, except the yield...

Thanks to everyone who reads and helps out on this looks like I'm going to need a lot of help. Will start a journal from building the room to through it all.
 
Hydroburn

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
Not sure on your setup but DWC is simple. The basic setup is a light-proof bucket of water with an air stone and air pump on 24/0, and the plant grows in a small rockwool cube placed in a net pot of clay pebbles. easy...

Generally start seeds in a shot glass of water for 24 hours, checking them every so often to see if they sink... then plant them 1/4" deep in 1" square rockwool or rapid rooters. Keep them warm and damp with plain water. Put the seedlings and cubes in a propagation tray with a dome or something.

I usually transplant to a 12-site 5 gallon DWC cloner/propagator about 2 weeks from dropping the seed in the shot glass. My setup runs 2" net pots with foam pucks from this point though harvest but it requires scrog or wire for support. If you plan to run 30 plants, you can do it all in one room - germinate/veg/flower/harvest - repeat, or two rooms; a veg and flower, run them both at the same time for perpetual harvest. If you plan to run clones from head stash moms, you will need a dedicated "veg" room.

It isn't practical to run 30 plants in individual 5 gallon buckets. If you insist on individual containers, prepare to bust your ass or run less plants or plumb some kind of RDWC. You can run the plants together in a large res, which is what I do... 100 gallon 4'x4' res, but there are all kinds of different shapes and sizes, and you could plumb them together in a giant undercurrent system. I grow 12 moderate sized plants in 2" net pots in the lid of the 4'x4' res, but you could easily do 16 in the system 12/12 from clone, if not more. If they are small you shouldn't need much support with small net pots. For oxygenation, I just have a $40 water pump blasting water inside the res straight up like a fountain 24/0.

My setup goes a long time without maintenance. Some people have to tend their systems daily, but with a larger volume of water, you can go 4-6 weeks between res changes... top up once then change res.... and ph drift stays in tolerance for a good 2+ weeks.

As for nutes I am a fan of botanicare kind and general hydro flora (but not floranova). For your first run stay away from nutes containing organics because this could slime your roots. I like to run aquashield and pond-zyme (petsmart/petco) for bennies to keep the slime away, pro-tekt for silica, and I use a little API tap water conditioner (petsmart/petco) to remove chloramine. Nothing over 17 bucks.

It is critical to keep your water and roots 100% light proof, so make sure you don't get a translucent res... or if you do, wrap it up with reflective bubble wrap insulation (home depot) or panda film or something. You could easily add aero sprayers inside the res and run it 40 - 60 gallons full.













 
E

euansteve

Member
Hydroburn said:
Not sure on your setup but DWC is simple. The basic setup is a light-proof bucket of water with an air stone and air pump on 24/0, and the plant grows in a small rockwool cube placed in a net pot of clay pebbles. easy...

Generally start seeds in a shot glass of water for 24 hours, checking them every so often to see if they sink... then plant them 1/4" deep in 1" square rockwool or rapid rooters. Keep them warm and damp with plain water. Put the seedlings and cubes in a propagation tray with a dome or something.

I usually transplant to a 12-site 5 gallon DWC cloner/propagator about 2 weeks from dropping the seed in the shot glass. My setup runs 2" net pots with foam pucks from this point though harvest but it requires scrog or wire for support. If you plan to run 30 plants, you can do it all in one room - germinate/veg/flower/harvest - repeat, or two rooms; a veg and flower, run them both at the same time for perpetual harvest. If you plan to run clones from head stash moms, you will need a dedicated "veg" room.

It isn't practical to run 30 plants in individual 5 gallon buckets. If you insist on individual containers, prepare to bust your ass or run less plants or plumb some kind of RDWC. You can run the plants together in a large res, which is what I do... 100 gallon 4'x4' res, but there are all kinds of different shapes and sizes, and you could plumb them together in a giant undercurrent system. I grow 12 moderate sized plants in 2" net pots in the lid of the 4'x4' res, but you could easily do 16 in the system 12/12 from clone, if not more. If they are small you shouldn't need much support with small net pots. For oxygenation, I just have a $40 water pump blasting water inside the res straight up like a fountain 24/0.

My setup goes a long time without maintenance. Some people have to tend their systems daily, but with a larger volume of water, you can go 4-6 weeks between res changes... top up once then change res.... and ph drift stays in tolerance for a good 2+ weeks.

As for nutes I am a fan of botanicare kind and general hydro flora (but not floranova). For your first run stay away from nutes containing organics because this could slime your roots. I like to run aquashield and pond-zyme (petsmart/petco) for bennies to keep the slime away, pro-tekt for silica, and I use a little API tap water conditioner (petsmart/petco) to remove chloramine. Nothing over 17 bucks.

It is critical to keep your water and roots 100% light proof, so make sure you don't get a translucent res... or if you do, wrap it up with reflective bubble wrap insulation (home depot) or panda film or something. You could easily add aero sprayers inside the res and run it 40 - 60 gallons full.













Click to expand...
Questions for hydroburn ;)

Might try this idea and leave the Nutrient Film Technique for now then.

So I'm going to go through your post to ensure I understand it.

1. growing from seeds, in shot glass of water for 24 hours
any specifics on water standard or will any do?
If they sink what then?

2. Plant seeds 1/4" deep in 1"² of rockwool/rapid rooters. keep them warm and damp.
In darkness or with light source?
Is this all seeds or a separate square for all seeds

3. Seedlings into a propagation tray with dome. for 2 weeks
In darkness or with light source (artificial or natural)?
Seedling removed from rockwool or left as were?
Would this be a DWC propagation tray or watered as normal?

4. transpant into a 12 site 5 gallon DWC cloner/propagator from 2 weeks after seed in shot glass
Again left in rockwool or to new medium or rockwool and new medium?

5. Setup runs 2" net pots with foam pucks
What are foam pucks?
What photo is this?
Photo number 3 looks like soil?

6. Continue this setup until harvest with supports when needed.
would this be the pictures 4 and 5?
In picture 4 where would you get a tank that size and the name of that type of tank? Unless this is the 100 gallon reservoir that you have mentioned later in the post

7. I would definately not be doing seperate containers now.

Sounds like i would be needing room for 32 seed in propagators this would be picture 1
3 DWC totes for the next 2 weeks
and 2 or 3 (depending on size of containers in picture 4)

Unsure what RDWC stands for?

You say about you running your plants together in the 100 gallon 4ft by 4ft so that answered question 6
but the giant undercurrent system has got me I just assumed I would have 3 seperate systems running with a seperate pump for each system.
If you could explain more on the undercurrent system that would bre great.
you also mention changing resorvoirs over does this mean for each system i would need a spare to allow for cleaning etc
Leaving the nutes out until I have this underway
As for the aero sprayers i guess this would replace replace the pump spraying in the middle and around all roots even reduce the noise of running water

Sorry for all these questions, just want to make sure i get it right
 
Hydroburn

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
start them in plain water... just sayin if they don't sink they might not be any good. germ seeds in the dark and move them to light after they sprout.... one seed per cube.

That black seedling tray is just a bunch of little square cups to hold rockwool cubes or rapid rooters. Each cup has a drainage hole in the bottom for the roots and water and it sits inside another solid outer tray... then the clear plastic dome goes on top. Water normally... keep them misted and in veg light 18/6, and don't let the cubes dry out and it's like a little greenhouse. The whole thing costs like $15 at any garden center. I like to fill the bottom tray with perlite for aeration, but you don't have to put anything in it.

The seedling will stay in the starter cube it's entire life. After 1 - 2 weeks they will get too big to keep in the seedling tray and you will have to transplant to your DWC system. I start running nutes around 200 - 300ppm at this point. All you have to do is put the seedling and starter cube in a little 2" net pot, and put a 2" foam puck on top to block light and support the stem. It is just a neoprene circle with a slit cut in the middle so you can slide it around the stalk. You can see the purple one that says SJ2 in the pic, and the red/blue ones in the small cloner thing.

Those "soil plug" things you asked about are rapid rooters... general hydroponics makes them and they are kinda like sponges or a nerf football with rooting hormone; it is made from organic stuff like tree compost or something. I prefer them to rockwool but either is fine. That tiny little 1" cube will be the only medium your plant lives in its entire life. DWC is a true medium-less hydroponic system... you don't even need the starter cubes honestly. The net pot and foam collar hold the plant in the lid of your res and the roots hang down submerged in water their entire life, while the canopy is supported in a scrog OR the stalk/main branches are supported with wire tied down somewhere. The green gardening wire and scrog nets can all be had at home depot or lowes or wherever btw for less than $5. You can see the root pics, how the net pots support the rapid rooters, and up top the colored foam collars support the stalk and block light.

For my setup I chose a single 4' x 4' 100 gallon res from ActiveAqua http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=9094
I also had to buy the lid that goes with it and drilled 12 holes in the lid with a 2" hole saw bit. I fill the res with a hose and put my water pump in there and it shoots water like a fountain. All of the plants sit in the lid and the roots grow in the res.

When I say "change the res" I meant dump out the old water for fresh water and new nutes.

The undercurrent stuff I was just saying you could get more than one res, and hook them up together with PVC pipe like one huge system. You would have pumps pushing water through the entire system - undercurrent. rdwc means recirculating dwc which is just any dwc setup with multiple containers that are all connected and water flows through them all. undercurrent (ucdwc) is also rdwc. The main point is, you can adapt this idea to anyway you'd like. Hook up multiple res, different shapes and sizes, however many plants you feel like per res, you can even put aero rails in there later, run DFT tubes instead of DWC containers, or even get all hippy with lava rock and koi mats housing beneficial microbes. Once you have the general idea you can run wherever you want with it.

Here are some pics of the internet.




 
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E

euansteve

Member
Hydroburn said:
start them in plain water... just sayin if they don't sink they might not be any good. germ seeds in the dark and move them to light after they sprout.... one seed per cube.

That black seedling tray is just a bunch of little square cups to hold rockwool cubes or rapid rooters. Each cup has a drainage hole in the bottom for the roots and water and it sits inside another solid outer tray... then the clear plastic dome goes on top. Water normally... keep them misted and in veg light 18/6, and don't let the cubes dry out and it's like a little greenhouse. The whole thing costs like $15 at any garden center. I like to fill the bottom tray with perlite for aeration, but you don't have to put anything in it.

The seedling will stay in the starter cube it's entire life. After 1 - 2 weeks they will get too big to keep in the seedling tray and you will have to transplant to your DWC system. I start running nutes around 200 - 300ppm at this point. All you have to do is put the seedling and starter cube in a little 2" net pot, and put a 2" foam puck on top to block light and support the stem. It is just a neoprene circle with a slit cut in the middle so you can slide it around the stalk. You can see the purple one that says SJ2 in the pic, and the red/blue ones in the small cloner thing.

Those "soil plug" things you asked about are rapid rooters... general hydroponics makes them and they are kinda like sponges or a nerf football with rooting hormone; it is made from organic stuff like tree compost or something. I prefer them to rockwool but either is fine. That tiny little 1" cube will be the only medium your plant lives in its entire life. DWC is a true medium-less hydroponic system... you don't even need the starter cubes honestly. The net pot and foam collar hold the plant in the lid of your res and the roots hang down submerged in water their entire life, while the canopy is supported in a scrog OR the stalk/main branches are supported with wire tied down somewhere. The green gardening wire and scrog nets can all be had at home depot or lowes or wherever btw for less than $5. You can see the root pics, how the net pots support the rapid rooters, and up top the colored foam collars support the stalk and block light.

For my setup I chose a single 4' x 4' 100 gallon res from ActiveAqua http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=9094
I also had to buy the lid that goes with it and drilled 12 holes in the lid with a 2" hole saw bit. I fill the res with a hose and put my water pump in there and it shoots water like a fountain. All of the plants sit in the lid and the roots grow in the res.

When I say "change the res" I meant dump out the old water for fresh water and new nutes.

The undercurrent stuff I was just saying you could get more than one res, and hook them up together with PVC pipe like one huge system. You would have pumps pushing water through the entire system - undercurrent. rdwc means recirculating dwc which is just any dwc setup with multiple containers that are all connected and water flows through them all. undercurrent (ucdwc) is also rdwc. The main point is, you can adapt this idea to anyway you'd like. Hook up multiple res, different shapes and sizes, however many plants you feel like per res, you can even put aero rails in there later, run DFT tubes instead of DWC containers, or even get all hippy with lava rock and koi mats housing beneficial microbes. Once you have the general idea you can run wherever you want with it.

Here are some pics of the internet.




Click to expand...
Still looking into this and thanks for all the info so far just a quick question in the first photo you uploaded it looks like that's rock-wool your using but in the third rapid rooters can you just let me know if its the same stuff or just different examples thanks
 
E

euansteve

Member
Hydroburn said:
start them in plain water... just sayin if they don't sink they might not be any good. germ seeds in the dark and move them to light after they sprout.... one seed per cube.

That black seedling tray is just a bunch of little square cups to hold rockwool cubes or rapid rooters. Each cup has a drainage hole in the bottom for the roots and water and it sits inside another solid outer tray... then the clear plastic dome goes on top. Water normally... keep them misted and in veg light 18/6, and don't let the cubes dry out and it's like a little greenhouse. The whole thing costs like $15 at any garden center. I like to fill the bottom tray with perlite for aeration, but you don't have to put anything in it.

The seedling will stay in the starter cube it's entire life. After 1 - 2 weeks they will get too big to keep in the seedling tray and you will have to transplant to your DWC system. I start running nutes around 200 - 300ppm at this point. All you have to do is put the seedling and starter cube in a little 2" net pot, and put a 2" foam puck on top to block light and support the stem. It is just a neoprene circle with a slit cut in the middle so you can slide it around the stalk. You can see the purple one that says SJ2 in the pic, and the red/blue ones in the small cloner thing.

Those "soil plug" things you asked about are rapid rooters... general hydroponics makes them and they are kinda like sponges or a nerf football with rooting hormone; it is made from organic stuff like tree compost or something. I prefer them to rockwool but either is fine. That tiny little 1" cube will be the only medium your plant lives in its entire life. DWC is a true medium-less hydroponic system... you don't even need the starter cubes honestly. The net pot and foam collar hold the plant in the lid of your res and the roots hang down submerged in water their entire life, while the canopy is supported in a scrog OR the stalk/main branches are supported with wire tied down somewhere. The green gardening wire and scrog nets can all be had at home depot or lowes or wherever btw for less than $5. You can see the root pics, how the net pots support the rapid rooters, and up top the colored foam collars support the stalk and block light.

For my setup I chose a single 4' x 4' 100 gallon res from ActiveAqua http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=9094
I also had to buy the lid that goes with it and drilled 12 holes in the lid with a 2" hole saw bit. I fill the res with a hose and put my water pump in there and it shoots water like a fountain. All of the plants sit in the lid and the roots grow in the res.

When I say "change the res" I meant dump out the old water for fresh water and new nutes.

The undercurrent stuff I was just saying you could get more than one res, and hook them up together with PVC pipe like one huge system. You would have pumps pushing water through the entire system - undercurrent. rdwc means recirculating dwc which is just any dwc setup with multiple containers that are all connected and water flows through them all. undercurrent (ucdwc) is also rdwc. The main point is, you can adapt this idea to anyway you'd like. Hook up multiple res, different shapes and sizes, however many plants you feel like per res, you can even put aero rails in there later, run DFT tubes instead of DWC containers, or even get all hippy with lava rock and koi mats housing beneficial microbes. Once you have the general idea you can run wherever you want with it.

Here are some pics of the internet.
Click to expand...
Hey read through this post a few times now, and I'm just pricing everything up as we speak ain't going to be so cheap...
But I'll stick with everything you have said by the word.
Only have a couple more questions which you'll probably hate me for now
keeping a 100 gallon reservoir cooler than the green, do you use any form of cooling or ice bottles or even a small fan?
Think I'll start with around the same number of plants that you are doing now, instead of 30 and keep it simple.
and If you could tell me about your lighting that would be great and i can get this started,
I was thinking 2* 125w blue cfl for 2 weeks propagation then into DWC with 400 mh veg then to 600 hps for flowering, does this sound acceptable?
in your 100 gallon have you placed these randomly or have you put your net baskets in a symmetrical pattern?

Thanks for all your help. When i do my journal you will be mentioned ;)
 
Hydroburn

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
pics are from different grows... sometimes I used rockwool. it's not cheap but you don't have to copy my setup, might want to start off with a simple bucket and air stone setup. I probably have about $1k into my setup which seems about the price point for getting into most serious hobbies... although you can certainly start with less than $100.

I rent, so my options for electricity and heat extraction are limited. I have a single 20 amp circuit to work with and a walk-in closet. I use two 400w lamps in flower, but when I get a house I would like to step up to dual 600s. The lamps are in cool tubes and the ventilation system sucks air through a carbon filter, then the cool tubes, then the fan, then a silencer and then gets dumped out of the closet. I am also not able to run A/C or a water chiller which sucks, because I don't have anywhere to dump the heat and noise is a concern, but not much I can do about it until I move. Ice bottles work great in small setups, but in 100 gallons not so much. I bought the biggest jugs of gatorade I could find and used 2 jugs of ice every 24 hours but it didn't seem to help much. Maybe if you had 2 of those 5 gallon water cooler jugs of ice floating around in there... haha. Could also wrap that res up with insulation but I haven't fucked with it.
 
E

euansteve

Member
It is also a rented property but with the meter fitted and adjusted I don't this will be a problem. I'm from Scotland just to let you know so I've roughly got the setup to £700 which is $1170. I'm still worried about the light to use during first 2 weeks in case it's too much for the plants.
Do you think blue 125/200 watt 6400k C.F.L. will do or should i stick with M.H. 400 Watt then go onto 600 Watt H.P.S.
 
Deusracing

Deusracing

Well-Known Member
Dude I gotta say this is some cool looking shit you do.. I keep trying to make home made ways as well.. I try to keep costs down on equipment and costs up on lighting. LOL i did a cheesy set up for recirculating systemIMG_3544.jpg
 
E

euansteve

Member
Hey last question before i go ahead with this,
after propagating in the cubes for 2 weeks you transfer to the DWC, are the roots long enough at this point to reach the water in the reservoir or do i need drip feeders or something similar or water them by hand etc...
 
Hydroburn

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
I drilled my lid in a pattern where each hole is 12 inches from the edges and from each other. The CFL should be fine for early veg, but you will want to switch to your 400w or 600w (or both) for main part of veg.

No need for top drip feeding... just keep the water level high enough and the bubbles will splash the cubes and keep them wet... maybe a few centimeters below the net pot. Make sure your system is light proof so you don't get algae blooms.

 
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E

euansteve

Member
Hydroburn said:
I drilled my lid in a pattern where each hole is 12 inches from the edges and from each other. The CFL should be fine for early veg, but you will want to switch to your 400w or 600w (or both) for main part of veg.

No need for top drip feeding... just keep the water level high enough and the bubbles will splash the cubes and keep them wet... maybe a few centimeters below the net pot. Make sure your system is light proof so you don't get algae blooms.

Click to expand...
Thanks Hydroburn, Now to burn some green and not the right kind...
 
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