Feminized Seeds Hermie Test - 14 strains, which are high risk; frequency; DM Reverse;

BTL1384

Member
thanks Hobbes, yeah i threw him outside. still gonna grow him just to watch and learn. as it turns out, Nirvana's home page has a statement about problems at the breeders with the fem auto blue mystic. so i thought i would check in to that. i purchased from The Attitude and inquired to both Nirvana and Attitude. now, i know how the Attitude got its name. in a snotty kind of way they asked if i contacted Nirvana on the issue, like they didnt know or even care if they are selling bad seed. very poor customer service. but before they replied Nirvana had already confirmed the problem and offered to send a pack of fem auto northern lights or any other strain i choose. i know the seeds have Nirvana's name, but i wouldnt have thought one store would credit anothers customer. but anyway it worked out. and thanks again. great thread.
 
Sorry about being so long getting back to you. Yes, save your reverse until you see yellow bananas growing from the buds, this type of hermie may be controllable. A true hermie with balls at the nodes and seperate male flowers near impossible. If you do get a hermie your best friend will be a pair of tweezers, just go around after lights out with a flash light and the yellow bananas will jump out at you. Just pluck them.

This is no doubt way too late to help you, my apologies.

.

bongsmilie
Hi,
1st I just wanted to say I love what you're doing, seems like you've got a great experiment going on. I've just found this thread today, however I've spent the last 4 hours or so reading the main points and overall very nice. I had just one question. Do you think that checking your plants while the lights are off with a white flashlight or any light that is not green (plants dont recognize green spectrum) could be accelerating or causing the herms? One quote you said you spent over 30 mins picking off nanners with tweezers and a flash light. Thats 30 min of interupted darkness which can cause a plant light stress in which everything but a "Double X cromo female" (i.e. True canidate for 100% female seed production, will not hermi under the worst conditions EVER because of the double X Cromozone) could possibly hermi.
Not hating or anything , just a thought. I actually joined this site after reading this forum because I was impressed on the way it was formatted and just all around interesting to read. I read the comment about the flashlight and thought I might put my 2 cent in to help you get to the bottom of these hermi's, because I have dealt with fems from those companys (DP , GHS, Sensi, Seedsmans,nirvana, etc) and only had a few herms, a couple of random nanners, mostly at the main tops, which I believe is just the plant being sensitive to the hps i.e. why only the tops had them, they were the closest to the light. Which if I remember correctly you said you were having the same problem. Tops would hermi, so you cut them and let the rest fill out, so thats something to think about as well. Maybe some are more sensitive to light, i.e why the shorter diesel plants hermed less, further away from the light. It may have had nothing to do with the reverse root zone application other than it stunted the plant keeping it shorter and further away from the light... Anyway enough with my rambling, I'd love to hear what you think Hobbes and I really think there maybe something to it, as I have personal seen someone check there plants with a standard small mag lite for only a couple of times during the off cycle per night for multiple nights in a row and there were herms on a strain I know for a fact would never hermi at week 3 or 4. Maybe 8 or 9 slightly, but never full blown herm at week 3. I'd personally grown it for a year from unfem seed (nirvana) and gave him cuts off 1st gen clone so I now it was not genetics. I told him to switch to green light from hydro store. Next run no herms. I personally have forced certain strains to herm slightly from having the light to close. Radiant heat can build up in the plant tissue from the 800 degree hps bulbs even if youre air cooling, causing stress to the plant , its just depends on the stain how much light they can tolerate/require. Anyway hope some of this helps and again keep it up ,I like what you're doing, thanks. Hope to hear from you. Peace
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.


Hey MDNGOT!

"Do you think that checking your plants while the lights are off with a white flashlight or any light that is not green (plants dont recognize green spectrum) could be accelerating or causing the herms?"

Intuitively I'd say yes, but I've never had any problems with lights causing hermies - it's always poor breeding and they hermie grow after grow regardless of conditions. I never throw out clones if a plant hermies after one grow incase the problems were my fault - which I can be fairly certain they're not if I have 10 strains in a 12 plant garden and only the 3 plants of the same strain hermie. Good genetics, as from Serious have never hermied on me regardless of how I torture them. A few late flower bananas with Bubblegum if I leave it too long but that can be a good thing for amature breeders..

5 minutes to check your plants with a weak light shouldn't hurt unless the genetics are incredibly poor.

If you are hermieing already you can turn your overhead light off through the day and use a white flashlight then. Reduced light will be no problem through the day unlike interrupted dark periods at night. I have a green light for night but I haven't had any bananas lately to see if they show up, that would work well at night if that's you're only time free.

I've designed an elliptical trough reflector for LED lights, to focus the light into a tighter beam the deeper into the canopy it goes. One of the more interesting things I came across is the Emerson Effect - basically give the plant far red (730 nm) will keep the plant in flower even if the dark period is interrupted. I'm interested to see if this will reduce hermieing in poor conditions or stop existing hermieing. With poor genetics I don't think the far red light will help but it's worth a try.

I agree with you, if a plant is hermieing and you're concerned about it getting worse then do your checking through the day. I've got over 2 dozen strains growing (the newest for several grows, the oldest years) and rarely have more than 3 of one strain in my 12 plant flower cage, so interrupting the light cycle isn't a big deal for me - for newer grower you should listen to MDNGOT, better safe than sorry.




https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/314052-plant-light-receptors.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/309037-solving-fatal-flaw-leds-experiment.html

.

bongsmilie

.
 

wutangbud

Member
Hi Guys, long time reader 1st time poster! i was hoping to do my 1st post with a grow journal but to my horror i have found seeds in my Feminized Skywalker, Kushberry & Bubblegummer, i had 1 Bluemoonshine in there but pulled it after coiple of weeks as it looked weak and not prodicing quick enough, i am unsure whether they have hermied or the BM seed (which was also feminized) turned out male, i cannot see any bananas but when i open a bud it has small seeds all inside it, the bud still looks good very frosty but it looks like theres gonna be loads of seeds, is the grow going to be ruined???? the plants are currently on day 32 of 12/12.

I am inexperienced but read a hell of alot and bought PH & EC tests to do things properly so to say i am gutted is an understatement i just hope all is not lost.
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

Hy wutangbud, welcome aboard RUI!

Can you post some pictures, up close of some colas, buds?

Are the seeds from the following breeders:

Skywalker - Dutch Passion
Kushberry - DNA
Bubblegummer - ? X-Line
Bluemoonshine - Dutch Passion

I've run several of Dutch Passion's lines with other strains in my garden and the DP strains would hermie while the other strains stay female. Good reputation but I've had trouble with them. Blue Moonshine is a slow grower and small producer, small hard buds. A tough strain to grow the first time around, tends to hermieing with or without stress.

This is a Bubblegum by Serious Seeds, probably the same or very similar genetics to your Bubblegummer. Bubblegum is an In Breed Line (IBL) which means - for us - that it is very sexually stable and often the plants from seed will be so similar they look like clones. Feminized seeds have a much greater chance of resembling the desired mother than do regular seeds, another reason to be interested in them.

Sometimes I like to see what abuse I can subject a plant to and see if it will die, recover from the stress, or just grow through. I grew this Bubblegum clone: in a 2 litre pop bottle; no air, stagnant water; changed water and nutrients only once during flower. Slow growth, little yield, long flowering time - but sweet buds and not a sign of hermieing. If the genetics are good you'll be fine.



.

Are/were most of the seeds in the Blue Moonshine and Skywalker?

.

To check for bananas:

- Either take your plants out of the garden and put under a white light, or a light with a high color rendering index. The HPS has a very low Color Rendering Index (CRI) and bananas are hard to see - the yellow light washes the green of the leaves and buds and there's less contrast with the bananas. I use a white flashlight at lights out to check.



- Go over the plant slow. Pick one bud or cola and try to look into it, make the buds - then the individual calyx - grow in your minds eye until you can see each individual piece of the bud. The bananas should grow between the actual buds themselves, it's very rare to get a true hermie that hangs clumps of bananas.

.


- Get a magnifying glass and go over the same bud again and again until you could take it apart and put it back together in your mind - if there are bananas there you will see them, then you'll never be able to look at a bud again without knowing if it's a hermie or not. Mature bananas will be yellow, young green. You'll only see half of the banana growing out of the bud.

.


.

Check for light leaks

Have you sat in your flower room for a half hour with the lights out? It takes time for the eyes to adjust to darkness, what seemed pitch black when the lights are turned out is often so light that you can see your hand moving around after 15 minutes. I spend a lot of time in my garden in the dark with a volcano bag, thinken 'n stuff.

I've found that it's genetics that cause most hermieing, but it's best to isolate your garden from stress.

.

"is the grow going to be ruined?"

Not at all.

The seeded bud will be less potent than it would have been sinsemilla but it will still be good. Don't sweat it. Pick out all of the seeds AFTER you harvest, don't bother the buds now except to pick out the visible bananas with tweezers.

Pick only the bananas visible, do not dig into the bud - the damage will further reduce yield & potency, and prolong flower. Toss the bananas, the pollen is worse than useless for you.

.

Post some pics if you can, as close up and still as possible. Take your plants away from the HPS for the pictures so we can pick out the bananas by color.

DON'T WORRY!

Easy to fix.

.
 

Short Bus

Active Member
Just chopped a Blue Cheese 2 weeks early last night, covered in plant-nads. It was one of many plants in my flower chamber, but the only BC. Any thoughts on how much seeding I'm going to see in the rest? PS-Blue Cheese is apparently real well known for going hermie, for anyone looking at running the stuff.
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

Index: Hermaphrodites

Tags: blue cheese, hermaphrodites, pollenation

.

"Just chopped a Blue Cheese 2 weeks early last night, covered in plant-nads. It was one of many plants in my flower chamber, but the only BC. Any thoughts on how much seeding I'm going to see in the rest? PS-Blue Cheese is apparently real well known for going hermie, for anyone looking at running the stuff."

"Any thoughts on how much seeding I'm going to see in the rest?"

Did you take a picture of a cola with bananas? If so could you post it please.

The profusion of seeds will depend on the ripeness of the bananas - if the bananas did not burst and release pollen then you'll have no seeds. If a lot of bananas burst then you'll get some seeds but don't worry too much about it, people have consumed seeded bud for millenia and have been happy doing it. One grow of many.

Check the colas that you chopped with a magnifying glass, look for bananas and what looks like tinged white banana skins that will be left when the banana bursts.

.

"Blue Cheese is apparently real well known for going hermie, for anyone looking at running the stuff."

Anything with Blueberry in the genetic makeup can have sketchy sexual stability. I have Peak's Skunkberry, one of the most stable forgiving strains I've had. The breeder has a lot to do with sexual stability - who breed your seeds?

.

Short Bus if you are concerned that some male flowers may have released pollen then I recommend moving all of your plants from your flower cage then spray all of the surfaces with a mild bleach solution, then clean the surfaces with a cloth. This will kill any pollen that stuck to the surfaces and that will seed your plants in the future.

.

.
 

THESkunkMunkie

Well-Known Member
My 2 JackFlash#5 plants have hermied on me at day 16 of flowering!! Sweet Seeds BlackJack & DNA Genetic's Rocklock too!! I'm running a clean grow room/op no room light leaks or anything like that, or any signs of overfeeding/nutrient burn or stress to the plants either!! I managed to get them out before any "balls" popped. If you ask me feminised seeds just don't work. this is the second time this has happened to me this year!! My last grow was with Greenhouse Seeds "feminised" Super Lemon Haze, Kings Kush & Church
I'm only doin regular seeds from now on, thats the only way I'll get genetically real female plants!!...
 

doowmd

Well-Known Member
I got Dinafem's Sweet Deep Grapefruit, and Cloud #9 thru one of attitudes freebie offers awhile back (jan. I think). Neither hermied, I've yet to harvest the #9 (its tall and lanky and suffering from a mild cae of nute burn atm but otherwise doing well), but the Sweet Deep Grapefruit was one of the best smelling/tasting strains I've ever had! Also, it was covered up in resin....the perfect 'sugar coated' look I thought. Literally made my mouth water when I smelled it!!! My only porblem w/ it, is that it turned out a little small (around 3.5 ft). But I'd get it again just for personal because it was so fuckin fire! Jury's still out on the #9,. but I'll report back on it in about a month or so.
 

ABM2010

Active Member
nice thread,ive sub'd
to be honest im sayin that greenhouse seeds r shit,well the super lemon haze
i bought 5 haze from greenhouse and 5 violator kush from barneys farm they germinated in under 40 hours then 2 days after that they wer out of the root riot with ther 1st leaves
2 of the haze died and now 1 is dying a bit,i know its not the way ther getting grew because the kush r fine
hope i dont end up with hermie
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

Welcome aboard both the thread and RIU ABM!

I'm going to be compiling this thread into Weed Science this weekend, with a linkable index. I'll post here when the chapter is uploaded to my website (linked at the bottom of this post).

In early 2011 I'm going to be running trials on a new Elliptical Trough Reflector for both LED and Plasma flower lighting, I'm going to run some far red and orange spectrum tests on plant to see if I can get plants to produce flowering hormone while the lights are on. At the same time I'll do some stress test on clones - to see if the Emerson Effect also has and effect on sexual stability.

I'll write up my hypothesis on producing flowering hormone durning light periods next week, or a few weeks after that. Interesting concept with some basis in reality. I'll run clones for control:

1. No stress / no far red

2. Stress / no far red

3. Stress / far red

To see if there are any differences. I'll stress until I get hermies in group 2: stress with no far red light,

.
 

9867mike777

Well-Known Member
My dad-gummed Blueberry Gum went hermie on me 9 days into the light change.

For now I just clipped all the balls and ordered some Dutch Master Reverse. I'll give it a few weeks and see how it goes. The plant is sure a beautiful healthy little plant besides the hermie crap. I think it is going to relatively compact so it should be easy to transport out of the grow room to neuter it every few days.
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

What breeder Mike? Blueberry x Bubblegum?

Blueberry is a bitch, it will hermie quicker than any strain I've grown. The least genetic weakness and there is NOTHING that can be done to stop the hermieing. I've ran a couple different breeders Blueberry and have had trouble every time. I got PeakseedsBC's Blueberry seeds in the que in my nursery waiting for some free space, other than DJ Short Peak's are the only Blueberry I trust - I'm sure that there are good ones out there, but when dealing with such dicey sexual stability it's better to go with what you're confident in.

Mike keep us updated, pics would be great. Solve Blueberry's S.S. problem and the rest of the strains will be simple in comparison.

.
 

9867mike777

Well-Known Member
It is G13 Blueberry Gum. Here is a picture I took right before chopping the balls off. I am going to give it a couple of more weeks.
november grow 001.jpg
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

That looks like a ... "true hermie"(?) ... I think they're referred as. All of the hermies I've had have been bananas growing out of the actual buds, I've never had male ball sacs.

Yes I have, my first blueberry. The very first hermie I had. It was female preflowers below the 12/12 line and male ball sacks above. Freaky.

Is Greenhouse the breeder?

.
 

ABM2010

Active Member
good to be here hobbes love what your doin for us all,need more people like u
nice work
i will be followin along,ive just had a look at your links i will defo have a read another day,not in the mood for readin now to high
rep to u
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

"not in the mood for reading now too high

Check out the Only In Dreams video link, its an 8 minute introduction to Weed Science - meant to be watch while high. Not stoned. Rejoice is my current project, the other 4 are just slideshows to show a process or piece of equipment. I'll have the 125 images from Rejoice in an ebook by the end of the weekend if anyone wants any of the Philisophicals.

.

I was playing with the colour, size and font in your quote to see if I could fool my mind into an even transition of a curve rather than steps. Something I've been thinking about for the videos. What do you think? Did you see a smooth curve the first time or steps?

.
 

ABM2010

Active Member
send me anythink worth lookin at,im intersted in anythink to do with weed or growing weed
and i would say it was more like steps
lol
nice 1
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
.

LOL!

ABM click here:

Hobbe's video page: Only In Dreams - 8 minute music video covering 1000 page pictorial CCOB ebook : Rejoice . O Young Person . In Thy Youth - Hobbes 11:9 , chronicle of my eternal battle with the hippie menace to Adagio For Strings (Platoon theme).

I LOL'd because the links are all at the bottom of each of my posts in the signature section ( V Look Down V ) - the first link is for the video library. There are a couple of other videos, just slideshows of processes and equipment to songs that I like. The videos are an introduction to Crop Circle Of Bud technique and theory, made for the state of mind that you're in now. Only In Dreams is very light, I embedded sequences that mimic movies - a bud morphing into a sand worm from Dune and devouring a trichome - lots of fun. Just emptying my mind and seeing if I can make a useful tool for growers.

.
 
Top