Fedral judge lol's at Obama Florida voter purge is legal

canndo said:

"I got mine!" now fuck yourself, is the refrain Desert Dude. The fact is that the disadvantaged, the ones most likely to not have "proper" ID also most often vote Dem, the right knows this full well, Paul Weyrick gave a speech in which he laid it out, to paraphrase, he said, our chances of winning go up as voter rolls shrink.

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To vote in the first place, the voter has to register. Is that so much more difficult than getting an ID card?

tranka32 said:

If your not registered to vote it is not easy to vote and your vote doesn't even count in the current election. As far as I know it is not easy for an illegal alien to vote; is it? I remember when I wasn't registered in my town to vote it took me at least 3 or 4 documents to prove that I was able to vote in that district and I had recently been in the US Army. I don't get how an illegal alien or someone that is not a US citizen is even able to vote. I mean you can't just walk up to the voting center, show your drivers license and go into the booth. At least where I am from you can't you need to be pre registered. I have no idea how they do it in Florida; does anyone?

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I don't even know how illegal immigrants can work in this country, you got me.

nontheist said:

I didn't have to show shit last time I voted, was pretty sad if you ask me. They asked me my name, then after scrolling down the paper work asked me to sign and gave me my paperwork.

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yeah, me too.

ginwilly said:

I'm open minded enough to change my mind if you could explain HOW what you say is true. Don't dick around with insinuations and innuendos, I'm a little slow, just spell it out. Because if you mean there are people who are physically able to vote but not physically able to have their picture taken.. well no you don't mean that, surely. Seriously now, I keep hearing it's racist, why? I've worked in the medical field for decades now so when I tell you I've never met a citizen that didn't have an ID, that means 10s of thousands of people. Never, not once. Even some of the illegals we treat have ID.

I don't see this as a hardship.

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Oh shit, you asked a liberal why it's racist? You're racist!!!! While I am being sarcastic, there is a truth to it.

lol nontheist

I respect the Paul Bots who are against it like they are against "show me your papers" type of authority. I disagree but as a small l libertarian part of me agrees with that sentiment. I just am against voter fraud more than I am against being oppressed by the man by making me show ID.

JustAnotherHead said:

So you're saying the left is largely made up of indigent drug addicts unable to figure out how to obtain a legal ID?

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Cute, but as is so often the case, the right simply can not imagine that anyone might be in a different situation than they are, and if they are in that situation they must be drug addicts or stupid.

canndo said:

Anyone who cannot afford or cannot obtain supporting documents will not be able to vote.
Anyone who cannot get to issuing centers will not be able to vote - like maybe folks in retirement or nursing homes or those who don't have autos - typicaly if one does have a car then they already have sufficient ID. As I said, not everyone is in the same situation, but they are still citizens. The SCOTUS decision which makes this argument moot (I don't recall the name) showed that in the state - Ohio I think, examined, 40,000 people would be disenfranchised.

Now the equation is pretty simple, subtract the number of illegal voters who would be kept from voting from the number of legal voters ID requirements would keep from voting, if you get a positive number then you are pretty much fucking democracy in the ass. Repubs have little problem with this sort of thing.

I find it highly interesting that on the one case - global warming, conservatives demand positive, irrefutable figures before they will act to prevent, but in the other, Voter ID, they need no proof that even a handful of illegal votes have been cast before they are perfectly willing to be "preemtive".

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If they can not get to the issuing centers as you claim, how do they get to the polling place to vote? Many of the states that are trying to inact their laws requiring ID's to vote from what I understand were willing to accomadate people that claim they can not get to the issuing centers by coming to their residence. So what is the problem?

desert dude said:

To vote in the first place, the voter has to register. Is that so much more difficult than getting an ID card?

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You can register in a hell of a lot of places, you only need to register once in each place you live, in fact many of those who are now required to present ID are already registered

zambonic said:

If they can not get to the issuing centers as you claim, how do they get to the polling place to vote? Many of the states that are trying to inact their laws requiring ID's to vote from what I understand were willing to accomadate people that claim they can not get to the issuing centers by coming to their residence. So what is the problem?

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consider, polling places are in neighborhoods, I once voted in a garage, schools, lots of places, hundreds of places, issuing centers are DMVs. I can walk to my polling place, I can't walk to my DMV. there might be two or three in a city. Now how is an issuing organization going to visit all the places these people are? do those people all have supporting documentation? My grandmother never had a birth certificate - the hall of records (or whatever) burned down 50 years previously - now in her case she had had other documentation, not everyone does.

The main point is again, what is this voter ID preventing? where is it happening? when I vote, my name is looked up along with my address, I sign my name under it. At most - at most, one person could vote in my place.

ginwilly said:

lol nontheist

I respect the Paul Bots who are against it like they are against "show me your papers" type of authority. I disagree but as a small l libertarian part of me agrees with that sentiment. I just am against voter fraud more than I am against being oppressed by the man by making me show ID.

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This is not nor has it ever been about those who already have ID and that is the problem because most who have ID simply can't conceive of anyone not having it. The truth is that far more don't - than have ever been proven to have illegaly voted.

ginwilly said:

I'm open minded enough to change my mind if you could explain HOW what you say is true. Don't dick around with insinuations and innuendos, I'm a little slow, just spell it out. Because if you mean there are people who are physically able to vote but not physically able to have their picture taken.. well no you don't mean that, surely. Seriously now, I keep hearing it's racist, why? I've worked in the medical field for decades now so when I tell you I've never met a citizen that didn't have an ID, that means 10s of thousands of people. Never, not once. Even some of the illegals we treat have ID.

I don't see this as a hardship.

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So you are mainting that every citizen in this country has ID because you have never encountered anyone who does not have one? and Btw, Scotus majority does not see it as a hardship either.

canndo said:

consider, polling places are in neighborhoods, I once voted in a garage, schools, lots of places, hundreds of places, issuing centers are DMVs. I can walk to my polling place, I can't walk to my DMV. there might be two or three in a city. Now how is an issuing organization going to visit all the places these people are? do those people all have supporting documentation? My grandmother never had a birth certificate - the hall of records (or whatever) burned down 50 years previously - now in her case she had had other documentation, not everyone does.

The main point is again, what is this voter ID preventing? where is it happening? when I vote, my name is looked up along with my address, I sign my name under it. At most - at most, one person could vote in my place.

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How many people today do not have a birth certificate? How many people do not have a freind or family member that would be willing to take that person to the issuing center? I would argue not many, so why would that be so out of the question for the state to come to the few that are left. You would like me to believe there are more people out there that either have no way to get there or no birth certificate than there truly are, Sorry I just do not buy that.

I think you should need to show ID in order to vote. I have no problem with that. After reading this article I see how the process can be swayed but is the problem that big that we need to waste all these resources tying up the courts?

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem/voter-fraud-is-a-proven-election-manipulation-tactic

An ongoing review of voter registration rolls in Florida has already found almost 100 confirmed non-citizens registered to vote, half of whom voted in at least one previous election; this in a state that decided the 2000 presidential election by slightly more than 500 votes. During the Bush administration, the Justice Department convicted more than a dozen non-citizens of illegally registering and voting in Florida elections. And the state has thousands more possibly unlawful registrations to investigate.

As the Supreme Court said, vote fraud has been present in our elections throughout our entire history. There are individuals who are willing to take advantage when they see an opportunity to steal an election. We need to be sure that every eligible American is able to vote, but we also need to take the steps necessary to ensure the integrity of our election process.

canndo said:

So you are mainting that every citizen in this country has ID because you have never encountered anyone who does not have one? and Btw, Scotus majority does not see it as a hardship either.

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no I'm saying if somebody has an incentive to have ID (like receiving health care) they predictably and consistently find a way to have one.

The numbers I see that it would affect are guesses, wild ass guesses. Seriously, wtf knows how many people don't have ID and have no way of getting one. These are assumptions made to help the argument.

Both the left and the right understand that if somebody doesn't vote because they don't want to be bothered to get an ID, would normally vote dem. I personally don't think that matters to most of us. To me this about preventing fraud. I lived in a county whose ex-sheriff and few cronies are doing time right now for this. Dead people can't show ID either but they CAN be registered and have an address until the books catch up to this (I.E. purge).

In Colorado, they ask you if you want to register to vote when you get a new license. That seems like the most logical thing to do and I have always assumed that's the way it is everywhere. If you have an ID, your a US Citizen and can be a voter. If you don't have an ID, tough titties, go to the DMV and go get a new license like I have had to do a couple times. Spending all day at the DMV and paying a bunch of fines is a right of passage for any American.

ginwilly said:

no I'm saying if somebody has an incentive to have ID (like receiving health care) they predictably and consistently find a way to have one.

The numbers I see that it would affect are guesses, wild ass guesses. Seriously, wtf knows how many people don't have ID and have no way of getting one. These are assumptions made to help the argument.

Both the left and the right understand that if somebody doesn't vote because they don't want to be bothered to get an ID, would normally vote dem. I personally don't think that matters to most of us. To me this about preventing fraud. I lived in a county whose ex-sheriff and few cronies are doing time right now for this. Dead people can't show ID either but they CAN be registered and have an address until the books catch up to this (I.E. purge).

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This is a very good point. Why would we, as a country, want people who can't be bothered to get an ID to vote in the first place?

I grew up in Chicago under Mayor Richard Daley's reign. I remember the democratic machine workers coming to my apartment to pick up people to drive them to the voting places. My mom was a reliable Democratic voter, and I still love her to this day, despite this grievous failing. The Democratic "taxi drivers" (they all had city patronage jobs by the way) handed all the voters a little manila envelope (2" x 3" or so) with a neatly folded five dollar bill inside, they had a cardboard box filled with all those neat little envelopes. They said, "lunch is on us". This was Chicago in the sixties, where everybody got at least one vote, even the dead.

desert dude said:

This is a very good point. Why would we, as a country, want people who can't be bothered to get an ID to vote in the first place?

I grew up in Chicago under Mayor Richard Daley's reign. I remember the democratic machine workers coming to my apartment to pick up people to drive them to the voting places. My mom was a reliable Democratic voter, and I still love her to this day, despite this grievous failing. The Democratic "taxi drivers" (they all had city patronage jobs by the way) handed all the voters a little manila envelope (2" x 3" or so) with a neatly folded five dollar bill inside, they had a cardboard box filled with all those neat little envelopes. They said, "lunch is on us". This was Chicago in the sixties, where everybody got at least one vote, even the dead.

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LOL, vote and vote often!
SC Gov Nikki Haley offered free rides to anyone that needed it to obtain a free state issued ID, I don't remember the exact count but it was something like 3 people.
If people are motivated to vote, they will.
How does anybody live in American society without an ID?
It's funny how the collectivists are NOW concerned with the individual.

The latest purge comes on the heels of a trio of new voting restrictions passed by Florida Republicans last year, disenfranchising 100,000 previously eligible ex-felons who'd been granted the right to vote under GOP Governor Charlie Crist in 2008; shutting down non-partisan voter registration drives; and cutting back on early voting. The measures, the effect of which will be to depress Democratic turnout in November, are similar to voting curbs passed by Republicans in more than a dozen states, on the bogus pretext of combating "voter fraud" but with the very deliberate goal of shaping the electorate to the GOP's advantage before a single vote has been cast.
Florida Republicans have taken voter suppression to a brazen extreme. After the 2010 election, Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican, instructed Secretary of State Ken Browning to compile a massive database of alleged "non-citizen" voters. Browning resigned in February rather than implement Scott’s plan, saying "we were not confident enough about the information for this secretary to hang his hat on it."
But in early May his successor, Kurt Detzner, a former beer-industry lobbyist, announced a list of 182,000 suspected non-citizens to be removed from the voting rolls, along with 50,000 apparently dead voters. (Seven thousand alleged felons had already been scrubbed from the rolls in the first four months of 2012). On May 8, the state mailed out a first batch of 2,600 letters to Florida residents informing them, "you are not a United States citizen; however you are registered to vote." If the recipients do not reply within thirty days and affirm their U.S. citizenship, they will be dropped from the voter rolls.
The first batch of names was riddled with inaccuracies. For example, as the progressive blog Think Progress noted, "an excess of 20 percent of the voters flagged as 'non-citizens' in Miami-Dade are, in fact, citizens. And the actual number may be much higher." If this ratio holds for the rest of the names on the non-citizens list, more than 35,000 eligible voters could be disenfranchised. Those alleged non-citizens have already included a 91-year-old World War II veteran who’s voted since he was 18 and a 60-year-old kennel owner who has voted in the state for four decades. It’s impossible to quantify how many eligible voters will be scrubbed from the rolls if they’ve moved, aren’t home, don’t have ready access to citizenship documents, or won’t bother to reply to the menacing letter.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/florida-gop-takes-voter-supression-to-a-brazen-new-extreme-20120530#ixzz1z3EMlv63

ChesusRice said:

The latest purge comes on the heels of a trio of new voting restrictions passed by Florida Republicans last year, disenfranchising 100,000 previously eligible ex-felons who'd been granted the right to vote under GOP Governor Charlie Crist in 2008; shutting down non-partisan voter registration drives; and cutting back on early voting. The measures, the effect of which will be to depress Democratic turnout in November, are similar to voting curbs passed by Republicans in more than a dozen states, on the bogus pretext of combating "voter fraud" but with the very deliberate goal of shaping the electorate to the GOP's advantage before a single vote has been cast.
Florida Republicans have taken voter suppression to a brazen extreme. After the 2010 election, Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican, instructed Secretary of State Ken Browning to compile a massive database of alleged "non-citizen" voters. Browning resigned in February rather than implement Scott’s plan, saying "we were not confident enough about the information for this secretary to hang his hat on it."
But in early May his successor, Kurt Detzner, a former beer-industry lobbyist, announced a list of 182,000 suspected non-citizens to be removed from the voting rolls, along with 50,000 apparently dead voters. (Seven thousand alleged felons had already been scrubbed from the rolls in the first four months of 2012). On May 8, the state mailed out a first batch of 2,600 letters to Florida residents informing them, "you are not a United States citizen; however you are registered to vote." If the recipients do not reply within thirty days and affirm their U.S. citizenship, they will be dropped from the voter rolls.
The first batch of names was riddled with inaccuracies. For example, as the progressive blog Think Progress noted, "an excess of 20 percent of the voters flagged as 'non-citizens' in Miami-Dade are, in fact, citizens. And the actual number may be much higher." If this ratio holds for the rest of the names on the non-citizens list, more than 35,000 eligible voters could be disenfranchised. Those alleged non-citizens have already included a 91-year-old World War II veteran who’s voted since he was 18 and a 60-year-old kennel owner who has voted in the state for four decades. It’s impossible to quantify how many eligible voters will be scrubbed from the rolls if they’ve moved, aren’t home, don’t have ready access to citizenship documents, or won’t bother to reply to the menacing letter.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/florida-gop-takes-voter-supression-to-a-brazen-new-extreme-20120530#ixzz1z3EMlv63

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So, 80% are in fact not citizens and not eligible to vote?

desert dude said:

So, 80% are in fact not citizens and not eligible to vote?

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have any evidence that they have in Florida?