Evolution Is A Theory On Which You Base A Religion

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
That video is hilarious...

That page hangs IE for me while trying to run some script. Spooky... Here's the youtube video directly so you can skip loading the page if others have that problem:
[Youtube]qO9IPoAdct8[/Youtube]
 

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
That video is hilarious...

That page hangs IE for me while trying to run some script. Spooky... Here's the youtube video directly so you can skip loading the page if others have that problem:
[Youtube]qO9IPoAdct8[/Youtube]
I seriously think one of those guys in the video was fish. I mean not the actor but whoever wrote what they were reading. LOL it sounds just like this thread. They even said that scientists use too many big words to confuse people. LMFAO.
 

fish601

Active Member
when you give it a try let us know
Show Times are from 6-7 PM, M-F, Mountain Time,
Phone number to call the show is 208-377-3790


[youtube]5zyRIYWdEtM[/youtube]
 
when you give it a try let us know
Show Times are from 6-7 PM, M-F, Mountain Time,
Phone number to call the show is 208-377-3790


[youtube]5zyRIYWdEtM[/youtube]
First of all who is this guy to say I have to defend my beliefs anyway? No matter how I got to where I am I don't owe an explanation to anyone ever! second of all you still have yet to show me one ounce of proof that that god exists. Furthermore, you have yet to show anyone anything of any fiber, and we are accused of hit and runs. lol this is why I normally stay out of these threads about religion but to say evolution is a religion or untrue, unproven in any way deserves my defense. However what you talk to invisable people about before you go to bed is all you. I don't care in the least just don't go around proclaiming things you could never back up. By the way evolution isn't tax exempt, so thats a big tip off it isn't a religon it is a quest for knowledge not just filling in blanks with: "This must be gods doing." If thats not your thing then so sorry for you please don't define our beliefs and pretend we think like you folks and came to our decisions by simply listening to some ass hate quote an old historically inaccurate book every sunday.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
when you give it a try let us know
Show Times are from 6-7 PM, M-F, Mountain Time,
Phone number to call the show is 208-377-3790


[youtube]5zyRIYWdEtM[/youtube]

Give me the gist of that in text form fish and I'd be happy to, the clip is only a little longer than a minute, that shouldn't take too long right?

My audio doesn't work right now.
 

krustofskie

Well-Known Member
Give me the gist of that in text form CG and I'd be happy to, the clip is only a little longer than a minute, that shouldn't take too long right?

My audio doesn't work right now.
The guy in the video is inviting Atheists to call up his radio show where he says he will proove his religion with "facts" and "evidence" in an unbiased debate. Just the jist of it.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
The guy in the video is inviting Atheists to call up his radio show where he says he will proove his religion with "facts" and "evidence" in an unbiased debate. Just the jist of it.
lol...well if this numb nuts could "prove" his religion, he'd be pretty rich indeed.

Howbout a video of him "proving" his religion to one of his atheist callers?
 

krustofskie

Well-Known Member
lol...well if this numb nuts could "prove" his religion, he'd be pretty rich indeed.

Howbout a video of him "proving" his religion to one of his atheist callers?
That would be easy

"The bible says"
"The bible says"
"The bible says"
"The bible says"
"The bible says"
"The bible says"
"The bible says"
 

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
I hope this doesn't turn into creationists vs atheists. I don't consider myself either. I think saying that for sure there is NO god is just as bad as saying I know for sure that he does exist. For the time being, we don't know and we can't know. If I had to make my best educated guess I would say that if you define god as "an intelligent creator of the universe" then I think there is a distinct possibility he/she/it does exist... or did exist at one point in time. That is why I think of myself as a combination of agnostic and deist. Agnosticism simply means we cannot presume to know the nature of god. Nothing on the subject can be proved either way right now because we don't have enough evidence to go on. Deism is a belief held by many of the founding fathers including Thomas Jefferson which states that any god or creator of this universe is no longer acting upon it. In other words, god created the Universe and then left. He is not he telling us what to do and not answering our prayers and not sending plagues upon the Earth.

So in the combination of these two ideas it is very important to define what "god" you are talking about. No beard, no white robe... the god in this case would be an architect or engineer... someone who designed a universe "machine" and set it into motion. That is far more amazing to me. The precision with which this machine had to be constructed is unbelievable. As you move the timeline back to the Big Bang the proportional effect of each event increases exponentially. Meaning that in the time immediately after the Big Bang the slightest difference in the arrangement of energy and forces and the order with which events proceeded would have had unimaginable impacts on everything afterwards. The probabilities that matter would perfectly balance antimatter and that the arrangement of tiny granularities in space-time would allow this matter to clump together and that all laws of physics would be created in such perfect balance are so unimaginably slim that they suggest a method and motive to it all. Our universe works so beautifully and perfectly that it's hard to believe it is an accident..... but it all comes back to the fact that we don't know exactly what that means right now.

And while I'm sidetracked talking about beliefs rather than evolution let's talk about the evil/good, wrong/right, heaven/hell debate because I think creationists have it all wrong there. They are really the ones with the false idols. Science and math are the language of the universe and therefore the language of god, which we can only hope to one day understand. To ignore the pursuit of that understanding in favor of a book written by men is a tragedy to me.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I respect those who believe in a god but not a religion. That's fine even in any athiests mind.

It's the organized religions that we despise.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
A deistic approach, one where someone considers the existence of a force or being capable of creation is reasonable.
But the Christian god is certainly a fabrication, no more valid than Osiris, Thor, Gaia, Ganesh, etc. etc.
What a small, petty god they chose to explain the universe.

To deal with some of the OPs original claims about evolution.

The eye: In The Origin of Species, Darwin does indeed reference the fact that the eye is an amazing organ that seems almost too complex to have evolved. And then in the next paragraph he begins a long and detailed explanation of the process. Creationist websites invariably include the partial quote and ignore the rest.
The eye began as a simple light sensitive cell, which you can still find on some single celled organisms today. Mutation, which occurs in all organisms, affects various genes in the DNA. In some organisms mutation may have disabled the light sensitivity, but in other mutations it increased the chemical photosensitivity, or the number of cells within a cluster giving directional feedback. You can find an excellent video describing the evolution of the eye if you google for "The Blind Watchmaker". (edit: I found a copy on YouTube) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG-7SDb_8Wo


Regarding science constantly finding new proof to dispute evolution:
Science is driven by the quest for knowledge. If research discovered a more realistic or elegant method of natural biological diversity, the discovers would be lauded for their efforts. But research in fields both inside and outside the realm of biology confirm Darwin's original theory. Darwin did not have all the answers, and in fact got some things wrong. But he laid a framework that has been improved upon by research in ethology, geology, molecular biology, genetics, paleontology and so on.
For example, there is no longer a missing link. Those gaps have been filled.
Transitional fossils showing the relationship between whales and hippos/cows have also been found.
Geological evidence involving sedimentary rock, igneous rock, carbon and uranium dating also verify predictions made about the appearance of 'simple' and increasingly complex organisms. Though a molecular biologist may take umbrage at the term 'simple'.

Genetics has reinforced the theory of evolution in a way that no other field of study. It's possible to map out the genome and see where relations occur, and even see the where branches in the evolutionary tree have occured. This can be mapped by ERVs, endogenous retroviruses, which modify genetic code within the host. If you examine the genetic code of two distinct organisms and find a segment of ERV on the same point, yet not in a third organism with a strong relation to one, you can map out the divergence of genetics within the species.

There are now several examples of observed speciation, visible evolution, taking place.
Look up the evolution of nylonase, an enzyme capable of breaking down nylon, despite nylon being an invention of the 20th century.
Also look up Lenski's 20 year experiment with E. coli, in which thousands of generations of the bacteria were bred in a lab and archived at set generational gaps. Due to the speed at which E. coli reproduces, it is possible to observe and map out evolutionary chance and speciation within the organism.
Genetic drift, the slow change of genetic information between isolated populations of the same species can result in the eventual inability of the populations to mate, as no cross breeding occurs to correct transcription errors. You can find excellent examples of this by searching for "ring species" or for a specific example "Larus gulls".

Okay, I could spend the next day citing stuff, but there's an issue that needs to be addressed first.
If I remember correctly, in one post the OP stated they didn't believe in evolution and didn't know much about it. Unless you actually read about evolution and understand the processes involved, you might as well be arguing with someone about how to perform microsurgical nerve reattachment.

If you're going to try and argue against evolution, you have to do better than parroting Creationist websites. You need to find the science that disproves it.

Ray Comfort is not a source of useful information on any subject, let alone biology. The man has shown himself to be ignorant of even a junior high level concept of basic biology. You may be familiar with the now infamous video in which he claims that a Banana is absolute proof of Creationism, the fruit in question being created to fit in mans hand perfectly.

Except that the banana Ray holds is the common banana found in supermarkets, a cultivar created by selective breeding over centuries. The wild variant isn't similar. Cauliflower, broccoli, carrots, all have similar ancestors which may still be found in the wild but with which they are not able to breed.

Kent Hovind is a con man and a fraudster, convicted as such.

I've rambled on long enough, and my laptop just warned me that it's almost out of juice.

The only reason to disbelieve evolution is if you are a Young Earth Creationist, who believes the bible is literal truth. If you believe the bible is a book of parables used to teach morality, or define social structure, or as a guide to worship, evolution isn't even an issue. But if you're a YEC, then I hope you have a good explanation for Unicorns.

Edit: Oh, and I hope everyone enjoyed International Blasphemy Day! (Sept 30th)
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
A deistic approach, one where someone considers the existence of a force or being capable of creation is reasonable.
But the Christian god is certainly a fabrication, no more valid than Osiris, Thor, Gaia, Ganesh, etc. etc.
What a small, petty god they chose to explain the universe.

To deal with some of the OPs original claims about evolution.

The eye: In The Origin of Species, Darwin does indeed reference the fact that the eye is an amazing organ that seems almost too complex to have evolved. And then in the next paragraph he begins a long and detailed explanation of the process. Creationist websites invariably include the partial quote and ignore the rest.
The eye began as a simple light sensitive cell, which you can still find on some single celled organisms today. Mutation, which occurs in all organisms, affects various genes in the DNA. In some organisms mutation may have disabled the light sensitivity, but in other mutations it increased the chemical photosensitivity, or the number of cells within a cluster giving directional feedback. You can find an excellent video describing the evolution of the eye if you google for "The Blind Watchmaker".

Regarding science constantly finding new proof to dispute evolution:
Science is driven by the quest for knowledge. If research discovered a more realistic or elegant method of natural biological diversity, the discovers would be lauded for their efforts. But research in fields both inside and outside the realm of biology confirm Darwin's original theory. Darwin did not have all the answers, and in fact got some things wrong. But he laid a framework that has been improved upon by research in ethology, geology, molecular biology, genetics, paleontology and so on.
For example, there is no longer a missing link. Those gaps have been filled.
Transitional fossils showing the relationship between whales and hippos/cows have also been found.
Geological evidence involving sedimentary rock, igneous rock, carbon and uranium dating also verify predictions made about the appearance of 'simple' and increasingly complex organisms. Though a molecular biologist may take umbrage at the term 'simple'.

Genetics has reinforced the theory of evolution in a way that no other field of study. It's possible to map out the genome and see where relations occur, and even see the where branches in the evolutionary tree have occured. This can be mapped by ERVs, endogenous retroviruses, which modify genetic code within the host. If you examine the genetic code of two distinct organisms and find a segment of ERV on the same point, yet not in a third organism with a strong relation to one, you can map out the divergence of genetics within the species.

There are now several examples of observed speciation, visible evolution, taking place.
Look up the evolution of nylonase, an enzyme capable of breaking down nylon, despite nylon being an invention of the 20th century.
Also look up Lenski's 20 year experiment with E. coli, in which thousands of generations of the bacteria were bred in a lab and archived at set generational gaps. Due to the speed at which E. coli reproduces, it is possible to observe and map out evolutionary chance and speciation within the organism.
Genetic drift, the slow change of genetic information between isolated populations of the same species can result in the eventual inability of the populations to mate, as no cross breeding occurs to correct transcription errors. You can find excellent examples of this by searching for "ring species" or for a specific example "Larus gulls".

Okay, I could spend the next day citing stuff, but there's an issue that needs to be addressed first.
If I remember correctly, in one post the OP stated they didn't believe in evolution and didn't know much about it. Unless you actually read about evolution and understand the processes involved, you might as well be arguing with someone about how to perform microsurgical nerve reattachment.

If you're going to try and argue against evolution, you have to do better than parroting Creationist websites. You need to find the science that disproves it.

Ray Comfort is not a source of useful information on any subject, let alone biology. The man has shown himself to be ignorant of even a junior high level concept of basic biology. You may be familiar with the now infamous video in which he claims that a Banana is absolute proof of Creationism, the fruit in question being created to fit in mans hand perfectly.

Except that the banana Ray holds is the common banana found in supermarkets, a cultivar created by selective breeding over centuries. The wild variant isn't similar. Cauliflower, broccoli, carrots, all have similar ancestors which may still be found in the wild but with which they are not able to breed.

Kent Hovind is a con man and a fraudster, convicted as such.

I've rambled on long enough, and my laptop just warned me that it's almost out of juice.

The only reason to disbelieve evolution is if you are a Young Earth Creationist, who believes the bible is literal truth. If you believe the bible is a book of parables used to teach morality, or define social structure, or as a guide to worship, evolution isn't even an issue. But if you're a YEC, then I hope you have a good explanation for Unicorns.

Edit: Oh, and I hope everyone enjoyed International Blasphemy Day! (Sept 30th)
Great post! +rep
 

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
October 1, 2009--In 1994 a research team led by Tim White of the University of California, Berkeley; Berhane Asfaw, former director of the National Museum of Ethiopia; and Giday WoldeGabriel of the Los Alamos National Laboratory announced the discovery of the first fossils of a new human ancestor, Ardipithecus ramidus. The researchers presented tantalizing evidence that the species was a biped living in woodland conditions more than a million years before the famous "Lucy" fossil of the species Australopithecus afarensis.

The research, to be published in an October 2, 2009, special issue of the journal Science, reveals that our earliest ancestors underwent a previously unknown phase of evolution, shedding new light on the nature of the last common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans.

An artist's reconstruction of the face of Ardipithecus ramidus was made possible by a digital reconstruction of skull parts from two individuals. The face of "Ardi" did not project as much as those of modern apes, but was not as flat and massive as the later australopithecines. Researchers who studied the species suggest this difference is related to the small size of the species' incisor teeth compared to those of chimps. Based on the relatively small size of its brow ridge and canine teeth, scientists suggest this fossil is of a female.
 
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