Ethnobotanical's: The Wave of the Future!

Swag said:

Sure you probably already know this but its hypothesized that the hepatotoxic properties kava kava can have comes from a molecular change that certain extracts cause it to under go, mainly the ones that utilize methanol/ethanol if I'm not mistaken. I've been using kratom sparingly for the past 3 years, mostly only Bali but I've had a chance to try Thai which was a tad bit more energetic like the popular synthetic opioids oxy/hydro codone/morphone. Attempted this extraction method a few months ago and failed miserable, probably of my own doing. Though if home made extracts send your tolerance through the roof like the ones available from vendors (UEI, 15x, ect.) than I wouldn't even consider them worth attempting unless your consumption of kratom is sparse, also they definitely seem to lack the "full spectrum" of alkaloids found in the regular leaf and hence reduce effects, imo. I also still have some ayahuasca jello-shots at the back of my fridge, thanks to the help of good ol' ANC

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Any personal anecdotes on the Green Malay strain?

ndangerspecimen101 said:

BTW, what's the shelf life of jello?

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Honestly I wish I knew. I just recently recovered mine from my old place of residence... where it was sitting in a dark cabinet at around 75-90 degrees for a good 7 months! Not sure if its still even viable but might as well give it a shot (no pun intended haha) and see how it unfolds. If I remember correctly it was a pretty potent brew... think 45-65 grams in around 8 "shots" worth!

Oh and almost forgot to mention. I read a while back about people speculating kratom to have possible hepatotoxic (liver damaging) effects on BL with one person claiming they or their friend experienced jaundice or possibly liver failure... I can't recall which off the top of my head. Didn't really think much of it as there were so few posts regarding the subject any where. Though I recently found this article (<-click) that states a confirmed case linking liver failure to a man in germany not sure how plausible of a source it is though. Now I've consumed countless grams of kratom; even going through 200+ grams in a matter of 2 weeks at one point (very dumb idea I know,its not something I plan on repeating ever again) and never experienced any liver distressing symptoms so the possible liver damaging effects possibly/probably vary from person to person. Regardless, although this plant has a good 200+ years of human consumption with seemingly no negative side effects (other than a darkening in facial pigmentation after prolonged daily usage) it still MAY be dangerous in some people (assuming those who do not have ancestry where it is indigenous found) and therefore should not be taken on a daily basis! All things in moderation y'all (hypocritical to my previous statement of 200+ grams in two weeks I know).

Moderation is key to every application in life. The best of things can ruin you. Even the over zealous falter at times!

A study cannot be confirmed based on just one scenario where a person exhibited bad symptoms. This could of been an anomaly. Does the article reveal how much Kratom use was involved and if he was pre-exposed to other conditions that could of led to liver failure?

ndangerspecimen101 said:

Any personal anecdotes on the Green Malay strain?

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Ah no sorry. I usually just stick with the plain Bali leaf as its the cheapest and always gets the job done for me. From what I've read though Green Malay seems to be the most popular "strain" of the bunch (and of course the most expensive as well) but I'm just to much a cheap bastard to spring for some. I've only had a chance to try Thai and Maeng da and that's only because the vendor I use is always willing to provide gracious free samples to his clients (granted he doesn't offer the best bottom dollar pricing on the market). Out of the three (Bali, Thai, Maeng Da) I found Maeng Da to pack the biggest punch out of them all but it seemed to also raise tolerance to the other two to a substantial degree. If you'd like I could toss ya a PM with his web address, if you just leave what samples you'd like in the comment box after you place an order or e-mail him about it first he is usually more than willing to send which ever ones you request from him.

the hepatoxic effects from kava comes form the part of the root you use adn the origin of the root

i only use kona kava farm

and i use only the full spectrum extract


never experienced any problems from Kratom regarding the liver

my only precaution for somone dabling with it is to resist the urge to do it all the time

swag thai and maeng dai are the "name" brand

green malay is actually a strain


all the stuff your gonna get from the vendors that sell multiple botanicles are name brands


if your getting the kratom straight from the source

youd know what the real deal is

borneo red

sumatran red

sumatran white



not some brand name Ultra indo or this shit is super duper kratom lol



all bali you get from places is borneo red

ndangerspecimen101 said:

Moderation is key to every application in life. The best of things can ruin you. Even the over zealous falter at times!

A study cannot be confirmed based on just one scenario where a person exhibited bad symptoms. This could of been an anomaly. Does the article reveal how much Kratom use was involved and if he was pre-exposed to other conditions that could of led to liver failure?

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Nope and thats what leaves me skeptical about it though they even say in the article that it was "probable" cause and not definite. Here's a small part of it "A pattern of pure drug-induced cholestatic injury was seen on liver biopsy, other potential causes were ruled out, and alkaloids consistent with kratom ingestion were detected in the patient’s urine". Though they don't describe how much was detected (who knows how much he could've been taking if hes an opiate addict trying to find a cheaper substitute?) or if he had any previous liver damage (I read a lot of people who were previously addicted to alcohol switching to kratom as an alternative). I think its probably just a rare occurrence in a select few individuals who may already be prone to liver damage (weak liver?) but I still feel it should be brought a bit more to light for harm reductions sake as I read about people consuming this stuff in high enough and consistent enough quantities to produce apparent physical/mental withdrawal symptoms.

Love the thorough analysis you guys are putting in!

I can sit and ponder instead of formulating the next idea.

Not to hurry the conversation. Has anyone investigated the last plant subjects studied by Alexander Shulgin known as Isoquinolines? &#8203;

Unnk said:

swag thai and maeng dai are the "name" brand

green malay is actually a strain


all the stuff your gonna get from the vendors that sell multiple botanicles are name brands


if your getting the kratom straight from the source

youd know what the real deal is

borneo red

sumatran red

sumatran white



not some brand name Ultra indo or this shit is super duper kratom lol



all bali you get from places is borneo red

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Hah always thought it was the other way around as I just recently started seeing people mention sumatran, borneo, ect. Thought they were just more silly names, looks like I owe a vendor an apologize for commenting about his selection of those strains. Makes complete sense now though as I never understood how kratom would be coming from Thailand when if I'm not mistaken getting caught with 10 grams worth there can result in some serious jail time. Yeah I've only ever ordered from one publicly available vendor so please excuse me if my taxonomy is incorrect

ndangerspecimen101 said:

Love the thorough analysis you guys are putting in!

I can sit and ponder instead of formulating the next idea.

Not to hurry the conversation. Has anyone investigated the last plant subjects studied by Alexander Shulgin known as Isoquinolines? &#8203;

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Oh great, I get a 15 second look at it on Wikipedia and see naturally occurring backbone of papaverine and morphine an become instantly intrigued and than BAM blackout . Also not to derail the topic at hand (seem to be accidentally doing that a bit recently) but fuck SOPA and PIPA, I tend to try to not get too emotionally wrapped up in politics but the US government has taken it to a whole new level of totalitarianism.

Swag said:

Hah always thought it was the other way around as I just recently started seeing people mention sumatran, borneo, ect. Thought they were just more silly names, looks like I owe a vendor an apologize for commenting about his selection of those strains. Makes complete sense now though as I never understood how kratom would be coming from Thailand when if I'm not mistaken getting caught with 10 grams worth there can result in some serious jail time. Yeah I've only ever ordered from one publicly available vendor so please excuse me if my taxonomy is incorrect

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Exactly!

Its odd. Grown there but extremely scheduled. I suppose Kratom poses too much of an abuse threat. How could the land deprive its inhabitants of such a well being plant.

Ah. And you might be curious as to why I mentioned Isoquinolines while mentioning Kratom. Frankly, because one of its sub-genus plants known as Nigella Sativa is a great opiate replacement and has a high affinity for treating heroin addiction by blocking calcium channels. Dear God, what will nature bestow on us next!

Swag said:

Oh great, I get a 15 second look at it on Wikipedia and see naturally occurring backbone of papaverine and morphine an become instantly intrigued and than BAM blackout . Also not to derail the topic at hand (seem to be accidentally doing that a bit recently) but fuck SOPA and PIPA, I tend to try to not get too emotionally wrapped up in politics but the US government has taken it to a whole new level of totalitarianism.

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Yep. Knew about the Blackout since last night. They're conducting a 24 Hr. protest. Google is taking part too by conducting a survey to Congress! It was only a matter of time when the Government was going to try censor the net. And here it is!

no problem swag

yah alot of ppl get confused

their is thailand kratom but its Red Jungle Thai

theirs one supplier pretty much and this place supplies practically all the other ethno shops with their kratom

they take it and rename it lol

and spike up the prices to insanity

i mean im getting the leaf at 3 bucks a ounce for borneo man lol

The main source is where the goodness is at!

I'm looking to vend Kratom in the near future if anyone is interested. Plenty of discounts in store!

Do you fella's think this thread deserves 5 stars yet?

ndangerspecimen101 said:

The main source is where the goodness is at!

I'm looking to vend Kratom in the near future if anyone is interested. Plenty of discounts in store!

Do you fella's think this thread deserves 5 stars yet?

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indeedly it does

ndangerspecimen101 said:

Exactly!

Its odd. Grown there but extremely scheduled. I suppose Kratom poses too much of an abuse threat. How could the land deprive its inhabitants of such a well being plant.

Ah. And you might be curious as to why I mentioned Isoquinolines while mentioning Kratom. Frankly, because one of its sub-genus plants known as Nigella Sativa is a great opiate replacement and has a high affinity for treating heroin addiction by blocking calcium channels. Dear God, what will nature bestow on us next!

Click to expand...

ndangerspecimen101 said:

Ah. And you might be curious as to why I mentioned Isoquinolines while mentioning Kratom. Frankly, because one of its sub-genus plants known as Nigella Sativa is a great opiate replacement and has a high affinity for treating heroin addiction by blocking calcium channels. Dear God, what will nature bestow on us next!

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I can kinda see where the government was coming from what with having to deal with the whole Yaba epidemic. Guess they'd rather just ban the majority substantially effect psychoactives rather than risk dealing with more homicidal/suicidal paranoid tweakers. Not to say that I agree with their new policies, think it is way too extreme of a crackdown personally but I'm no political scientist or sociologist just a morally corrupt evil drug user so what do I know?!

Aghh! Stop filling my mind with such fancies; I'll never get to sleep! Glad google opted out on a blackout or I might've been left stranded in agonizing wonderment for another 20 hours (or whatever time zone they began it at, suppose there is always bing..). Though I must get to sleep now as it seems I have much research to be doing tomorrow and without the helpful aid of wiki my wealth of knowledge will be severely severed I presume. As long as erowid remains up I should be satiated though . Talk to ya in the PM brother!

theres yah first 5 star

Enough with today's lecture my fellow scientist. We will resume lectures at 21:00!

Nope. Erowid is blacked out too.

And this only seems to be the beginning!