ethanol oil not burning clean

Doer said:

Gotta ya. I use full recovery, closed loop.

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If I could justify the expense to myself id be interested in learning to do a closed loop extraction kind of thing, solvents aside. I really wish the CO2 tech was up to par, everything I seem is usually gooey and parallels a classic bubble bag hash in potency at around %70 THC, but with many less contaminates. Usually tastes pretty funky too, even if could bring myself to go out and just drop the G's tomorrow don't know if id go that route... yet...

norcalmopar said:

If I could justify the expense to myself id be interested in learning to do a closed loop extraction kind of thing, solvents aside. I really wish the CO2 tech was up to par, everything I seem is usually gooey and parallels a classic bubble bag hash in potency at around %70 THC, but with many less contaminates. Usually tastes pretty funky too, even if could bring myself to go out and just drop the G's tomorrow don't know if id go that route... yet...

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CO2? No. They are even switching to Closed loop butane for extracting paprika. Hungary had big installations of CO2, but are switching back to butane, I've read.

CO2 is a high temp/high pressure process, but doesn't seem to produce good shatter, does it?

And if you read up on Butane it is in use every day, by the recycled ton, in US food processing. They transport Pringles slurry with it, and everything else.

And butane is a co-Goddess with water itself. Water however is corrosive, reactive, etc, but butane is inert. It has the perfect properties so that regular salted ice can get it plenty cold enough. Room temp is plenty warm enough, etc.

The only problem is a good extractor, a safe one, will run about $1000. But, enough butane for years is only $150.

The real expert here is @Fadedawg. I'm just his follower

Not to say its 'unsafe' if handled carefully

...I understand butane is used widely for food handling, but just because its gov approved doesn't make it somehow special or any more enticing to ingest. I think of all the other things that are gov approved, like genetically modified crops, antibiotic sustained livestock. most butchers pump nitrogen and other chemicals into their beef to keep cuts looking pink weeks after it would have naturally turned brown. Gov approved doesn't always mean its 'good' for you... just my experience

To each their own... that's how I look at things

I personally find the CO2 an interesting solve-less way of making oil, seems to me like there is potential there

norcalmopar said:

Not to say its 'unsafe' if handled carefully

...I understand butane is used widely for food handling, but just because its gov approved doesn't make it somehow special or any more enticing to ingest. I think of all the other things that are gov approved, like genetically modified crops, antibiotic sustained livestock. most butchers pump nitrogen and other chemicals into their beef to keep cuts looking pink weeks after it would have naturally turned brown. Gov approved doesn't always mean its 'good' for you... just my experience

To each their own... that's how I look at things

I personally find the CO2 an interesting solve-less way of making oil, seems to me like there is potential there

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You missed the point. I didn't say a word about govt approved. There is nothing to ingest. Plus, even if there were, it is totally inert. Doesn't react. It is just Hydrogen and Carbon.

And if you don't realize that super-critical CO2 is just another extraction solvent, you are not correct.

And CO2, my friend, is not easy. Butane is. And the only difference is you don't understand that CO2 and C4H10, are practically the same thing as usage goes. They are both organic solvents. One is safe to work with at low pressure and Ice Temp. That's butane. The other, CO2, is heavy, and dangerous at the working Temp and Pressure. Therefore, catastrophic failure in CO2 extraction is a BIG PROBLEM. http://www.apekssupercritical.com/botanical-extraction-systems/apeks-5000-20l-modular-supercritical-co2-system/

norcalmopar said:

If I could justify the expense to myself id be interested in learning to do a closed loop extraction kind of thing, solvents aside. I really wish the CO2 tech was up to par, everything I seem is usually gooey and parallels a classic bubble bag hash in potency at around %70 THC, but with many less contaminates. Usually tastes pretty funky too, even if could bring myself to go out and just drop the G's tomorrow don't know if id go that route... yet...

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Define up to par. I've personally extracted, as well as sampled the funky CO2 lawn clipping tasting SCFE CO2 concentrates as well, but am starting to run into samples by others that fly in the face of that past standard.

They were extracted and then fractionated off on decompression, so as to separate the monoterpenes from the cannabinoids and both from the longer chain molecules.

The longer chain molecules were discarded and enough of the original monoterpenes added back, so as to provide flavor and taste to the high 90's percentile cannabinoids fraction. It makes a concentrate that in a blindfold test, would get top marks, but isn't as purdy to gaze upon as BHO.

It doesn't look like a piece of stained glass, like a pristine BHO statter, or have the curb appeal of the best BHO/Propane waxes, but the aroma and flavor are excellent and the effects are outstanding.

The bigger issue, is the cost of the equipment to do that, as well as the cost to operate and maintain, in conjunction with how long it takes, as compared to quality BHO extractions.

BHO/Propane systems simply have the capacity to produce greater volumes of prettier product, with excellent aroma and taste, and good to excellent effects, using low toxicity solvents, with a cheaper equipment investment, and that have residual solvent levels below levels of concern for those simple saturated Alkane solvents.

Said another way, it is a more cost effective extraction method, that currently better meets market whims and demands.

You can further fractionally distill BHO to achieve similar effects to the fractionated CO2, but that adds to the cost of the BHO, at which point the costs are probably closer together.

Fadedawg said:

Define up to par. I've personally extracted, as well as sampled the funky CO2 lawn clipping tasting SCFE CO2 concentrates as well, but am starting to run into samples by others that fly in the face of that past standard.

They were extracted and then fractionated off on decompression, so as to separate the monoterpenes from the cannabinoids and both from the longer chain molecules.

The longer chain molecules were discarded and enough of the original monoterpenes added back, so as to provide flavor and taste to the high 90's percentile cannabinoids fraction. It makes a concentrate that in a blindfold test, would get top marks, but isn't as purdy to gaze upon as BHO.

It doesn't look like a piece of stained glass, like a pristine BHO statter, or have the curb appeal of the best BHO/Propane waxes, but the aroma and flavor are excellent and the effects are outstanding.

The bigger issue, is the cost of the equipment to do that, as well as the cost to operate and maintain, in conjunction with how long it takes, as compared to quality BHO extractions.

BHO/Propane systems simply has the capacity to produce more prettier product, with excellent aroma and taste, and good to excellent effects, using low toxicity solvents, with a cheaper equipment investment, and that have residual solvent levels below levels of concern for those simple saturated Alkane solvents.

You can further fractionally distill BHO to achieve similar effects to the fractionated CO2, but that adds to the cost of the BHO, at which point the costs are probably closer together.

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That's awesome, I was not aware of anything near %90, that's outstanding. This in my book would be far more worth the initial investment if it provides a top quality product. Looks aside, people will learn to love it once they're exposed to it.


What kinds of volume are people capable of running? I assume it scales very differently than a BHO or QWET? where's the handicap?

Doer said:

You missed the point. I didn't say a word about govt approved. There is nothing to ingest. Plus, even if there were, it is totally inert. Doesn't react. It is just Hydrogen and Carbon.

And if you don't realize that super-critical CO2 is just another extraction solvent, you are not correct.

And CO2, my friend, is not easy. Butane is. And the only difference is you don't understand that CO2 and C4H10, are practically the same thing as usage goes. They are both organic solvents. One is safe to work with at low pressure and Ice Temp. That's butane. The other, CO2, is heavy, and dangerous at the working Temp and Pressure. Therefore, catastrophic failure in CO2 extraction is a BIG PROBLEM. http://www.apekssupercritical.com/botanical-extraction-systems/apeks-5000-20l-modular-supercritical-co2-system/

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I forgot the "" on "solvent-less"... my bad


Like I said before, I am aware of what butane is, but when making concentrates for my own persona ingestion I don't Like to use anything I would not ingest separately in whole. ethanol+herb. I understand its not equivocal, but I can't spray a can of butane down my throat. I'm breathing co2 right now, although it not held in critical form at atmospheric pressure. Just my opinion, again, as I said

To each their own.

The way I was taught business is we start with "How much $$ do we want to make end of year 1-5."

And then we see how much volume of product we need to produce and what does it cost to produce it.

Finally we have to show which production technique is more profitable, considering the volume of raw material you have access to, and the quality difference, price markup, marketability and such of both finished products.

I spent a $1000 on an extractor that is only limited by the length of the Material Tube. Right now I have a 2 ounce, 6" tube. So a pound would be a 4 foot tube. But, for that I would need another 6" x 6" extension on the bottom. So, for me, another $700 or so would do a pound at a time.

Then take the minimum investment, the Apexs I posted above.
Volume: 5000-20L – holds up to 12 pounds of dry, ground material.

But, they won't tell you the price. And if it is under $20K, I will eat a 1/4 of your best hash.

norcalmopar said:

I forgot the "" on "solvent-less"... my bad


Like I said before, I am aware of what butane is, but when making concentrates for my own persona ingestion I don't Like to use anything I would not ingest separately in whole. ethanol+herb. I understand its not equivocal, but I can't spray a can of butane down my throat. I'm breathing co2 right now, although it not held in critical form at atmospheric pressure. Just my opinion, again, as I said

To each their own.

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Temperature aside, you can spray a can of butane down your throat. You would puke your guts out is all. You would be high as a kite, similar to Nitrous Oxide.

But, you can only asphyxiate yourself by displacing the O2. It is not poisonous, sorry if you think so,

People huff it for a high.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/neurotoxic-effects-from-butane-gas.15291/
Because butane gas inhalants enter through the pulmonary system, they immediately enter into the blood supply and within seconds produce intoxication. The acute effects of inhalants include dizziness, hypertension (increased blood pressure), tachycardia (increased heart rate), impaired coordination, disorientation, temporal distortion, confusion, thick slurred speech, delirium, hallucinations, assaults and suicide attempts. Depending upon the inhalant, recovery may take minutes to hours or may not occur at all. Single episode use can be fatal because of oxygen displacement from red blood cells, hypoxia and asphyxiation. Victims of pulmonary effects are often found with a paper bag over the head. Profound relaxation and deep sleep usually follow the initial euphoric phase.

ROI for butane is like one or two runs, nowhere near 20k lol. vutane has co2 beat in a lot of ways currently, but as the industry matures It will be interesting to see if the cost of technology is significantly influenced by the "legalization" of the west coast.

norcalmopar said:

ROI for butane is like one or two runs, nowhere near 20k lol. vutane has co2 beat in a lot of ways currently, but as the industry matures It will be interesting to see if the cost of technology is significantly influenced by the "legalization" of the west coast.

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I'm with you. I did all the research in my recent decision. The problem is the Physics are working against you with CO2. But, The Physics are quite with you, and lovingly holding your hand with Butane.

The main consumable cost is Ice, and rock salt. I have a thread here on my set up.

Doer said:

Temp aside, you can spray a can of butane down your throat. You would puke your guts out is all. You would be high as a kite, similar to Nitrous Oxide.

But, you can only asphyxiate yourself by displacing the O2. It is not poisonous, sorry if you think so,

People huff it for a high.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/neurotoxic-effects-from-butane-gas.15291/
Because butane gas inhalants enter through the pulmonary system, they immediately enter into the blood supply and within seconds produce intoxication. The acute effects of inhalants include dizziness, hypertension (increased blood pressure), tachycardia (increased heart rate), impaired coordination, disorientation, temporal distortion, confusion, thick slurred speech, delirium, hallucinations, assaults and suicide attempts. Depending upon the inhalant, recovery may take minutes to hours or may not occur at all. Single episode use can be fatal because of oxygen displacement from red blood cells, hypoxia and asphyxiation. Victims of pulmonary effects are often found with a paper bag over the head. Profound relaxation and deep sleep usually follow the initial euphoric phase.

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Puking my guts out is kind of what im talking about, as well as prolonged inhalant abuse causing brain damage. all im saying is I prefer working wit ethanol over butane. I dont huff tane, i like to drink already, not to say its any better for you. pick your poison. MY preference, for what I ingest into MY body.

norcalmopar said:

That's awesome, I was not aware of anything near %90, that's outstanding. This in my book would be far more worth the initial investment if it provides a top quality product. Looks aside, people will learn to love it once they're exposed to it.


What kinds of volume are people capable of running? I assume it scales very differently than a BHO or QWET? where's the handicap?

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They were run by Patrick at Eden Labs, and the largest machine I saw them building, was a 60 liter system, which was actually a bank of three 20 liter extraction vessels. Just the pump was in the $30K range, but I don't know what the total price was.

No doubt they have that price near the tip of their tongue, if you are interested enough to give them a call.

Don't know if ima go order myself one.... I bet you I could think of a few better ways I could burn a briefcase with $150,000...