Electrical expert needed...

amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
i have a question bout the electrical i have running my gro room.....so there was a 220 line running into my sunporch where a dryer used to hooked up, well in the basement where the line runs to the porch they ran short and had to put a box and connect another type of 220 line to it, but was a few feet from my back room where i have my grow so i disconnected the line in the box and ran 2 110 lines from the junction box to my gro....so my question is im using one line for the flower room where im running a 1000w plus inline fan and fans etc. the other 110 line im using for veg t5s fans etc....how much power can this handle set up like this oh and the breaker is 60amp..
 
budbro18

budbro18

Well-Known Member
im no expert but more of a hobbyist

The breaker will be able to hold the load but its more about the wiring being strong enough to handle the pull

as long as your wires are rated to be connected to a 60amp fuse on 120v youll be good

Once again i am no expert just an enthusiast.
 
amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
thanx man the wire i used is brand new, has yellow coating on it lol is 12:1 or something i would have to look at it
 
droopy107

droopy107

Well-Known Member
You've got a couple of safety issues going here. The first thing you should consider is that you are most likely using either 15 or 20 amp recepticals on a circuit that is protected by a 60 amp breaker. You'll not have a problem with running out of capacity with that breaker, but where your risk is at is that the breaker is extremely oversized for the downstream equipment. By that I mean everything from the junction box to the recepticals to the lights and fans you are using. None of them will be rated for anywhere near 60 amps in the event of a malfunction. You may be just fine forever, but if the worst happens you will regret not spending 15 bucks to make things more in your favor.

At a minimum, what I would suggest is to change out that breaker for two seperate 15 or 20 amp breakers.(depending upon the rating of the recepticals you are using) That way you will have two seperately controlled circuits. You could use a 220 v breaker, but the only thing you will achieve doing this is to ensure that if you have problems with one circuit, both circuits will shut down and most growers wouldn't want that.

The existing wire is plenty big enough for a 20 amp circuit, assuming whoever installed it used the correct wire for the circuit protection. It should be no. 6 wire. I'm also assuming that the new wire you put in is 12-2, going by what you wrote above. I'm not quite sure what you ment by 12:1. Either way it will say on the wire coating.

The last weak spot I see is that you will only have one common neutral comming back from the J box. It will work, but I just don't like doing things like that on principal alone. It's combining 2 circuits into one and that's not standard wiring practice. It's nowhere near the risk of using the 60A breaker, but for a few more bucks, you can at least say that you did everything you could to make sure you protected your ass.
 
echelon1k1

echelon1k1

New Member
amrcngror said:
i have a question bout the electrical i have running my gro room.....so there was a 220 line running into my sunporch where a dryer used to hooked up, well in the basement where the line runs to the porch they ran short and had to put a box and connect another type of 220 line to it, but was a few feet from my back room where i have my grow so i disconnected the line in the box and ran 2 110 lines from the junction box to my gro....so my question is im using one line for the flower room where im running a 1000w plus inline fan and fans etc. the other 110 line im using for veg t5s fans etc....how much power can this handle set up like this oh and the breaker is 60amp..
Click to expand...
Throw in a 20A breaker over each line an you'll be fine. That's give you 2200w per line @ 110v. 60A is a bit much as your breakers save your cables/equipment not your life.

For extra safety terminate each line with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) safety outlet, lower trip rate in mA the better. This will protect you and is especially useful with fans to protect against fire should they burn out.
 
W

WestSide Ukiah

Member
droopy107 said:
At a minimum, what I would suggest is to change out that breaker for two seperate 15 or 20 amp breakers.(depending upon the rating of the recepticals you are using) That way you will have two seperately controlled circuits. You could use a 220 v breaker, but the only thing you will achieve doing this is to ensure that if you have problems with one circuit, both circuits will shut down and most growers wouldn't want that.
Click to expand...
I would like to point out that with a shared neutral the breakers should still be handle tied. But the tie doesn't necessarily need to trip both breakers in the event of a fault.

The tie should be UL listed for the task. Not just a nail through the holes on the handles LoL.
 
Shawns

Shawns

Active Member
also wouldn't it be dangerous to splice a 220 into 2 110 just using a junction box ?
 
W

WestSide Ukiah

Member
Shawns said:
also wouldn't it be dangerous to splice a 220 into 2 110 just using a junction box ?
Click to expand...
The splice can be done safely. But YES dangerous overall. Not because of the voltage, but because of the amperage. My concern would be the next guy coming along and (for whatever reason) swapping the 20 amp breakers back to 60 amp breaker in the panel because he sees "big wire". -- for instance it could happen during an electrical panel upgrade if the electrician isn't paying close attention.-- Now you have 60 amps of over-current protection on a circuit that has wire with an ampacity of 20 down the line. Breakers should "trip" before an overloaded circuit can heat up a wire hot enough to catch on fire. A 60 amp breaker probably isn't going to trip fast enough to protect a 12 gauge wire from burning up.

For a few bucks it could be done right. Turn that 60 amp circuit into a sub panel and run the 20 amp circuits to the grow room out of the new sub.

A small main lug panel and a couple of breakers would cost around 50 bucks at HD or Lowes.

elspra07a.jpg
 
amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
@westside ukiah and droopy107 thanx a ton you guys, im so glad i posted to double check what i did. im gonna go with either gonna go with putting a 20a breaker on ea line or use that 220 line and run it to its own little circuit and run the lines from there.....but what do you guys think the absolute best thing i should do is? i dont really care about the cost because like you guys said safefty.....
 
W

WestSide Ukiah

Member
My vote for sure would be a little sub panel. Especially if you have a few bucks to spend on it. Sounds like the wire is there so the expensive part, and the hard work, is done... Can you post a couple of pictures of what you have to work with?
 
Sand4x105

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
I am also in agreement with the sub panel idea...
A little 12 space with breakers great investment...
You could power your grow room correct, with a 60 amp sub panel in there....
!
 
amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
WestSide Ukiah said:
My vote for sure would be a little sub panel. Especially if you have a few bucks to spend on it. Sounds like the wire is there so the expensive part, and the hard work, is done... Can you post a couple of pictures of what you have to work with?
Click to expand...
i cant post any pics right off hand but the 220 line that runs from the box is an older style, it didnt even have a ground in it just 2 good sized wires i had to ground under a screw, but i think ill disconnect the rest of the wire from the old dryer plug and pull it from the sunporch and reconnect it back how it was and run that back to my GR and into the new sub-panel.... so when doing this how do i hook the 220 line to the new sub-panel and what do u think one costs like the one you posted
 
amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
ok and after the sub-panel is hooked up does the 60a breaker its hooked to mean i can run 3 20a breakers in it, basically 3 20a lines? or am i wrong on that....i kno a little bout electrical but this is different then what i been messin with lol


edit: sorry if im askin too many questions guys, i like learning new stuff and working on my own shit lol
 
Sand4x105

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
amrcngror said:
ok and after the sub-panel is hooked up does the 60a breaker its hooked to mean i can run 3 20a breakers in it, basically 3 20a lines? or am i wrong on that....i kno a little bout electrical but this is different then what i been messin with lol
Click to expand...
The 60 amp breaker would stay in panel, turn it off, and tape it off....
Then just hook up the
Black
Red
to the Bus Lugs in sub
Then the white to the nutral bus lug
then the ground to the ground lug, and make sure ground bus, is atached to panel correct...
Then run 20 amp circuits/12 awg wire to the points you need it add 20 amp breakers as you see fit, lights on own breakers is cool...if you ever run a 1000 watt...
Or Run 15 amp circuits with 14 awg wire...
---
FYI Your grow room will have more power than the old house I live in, which has a 120vac drop and 60 amp main single phase 120 vac to ground, two wire drop from pole....
 
amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
Sand4x105 said:
The 60 amp breaker would stay in panel, turn it off, and tape it off....
Then just hook up the
Black
Red
to the Bus Lugs in sub
Then the white to the nutral bus lug
then the ground to the ground lug, and make sure ground bus, is atached to panel correct...
Then run 20 amp circuits/12 awg wire to the points you need it add 20 amp breakers as you see fit, lights on own breakers is cool...if you ever run a 1000 watt...
Or Run 15 amp circuits with 14 awg wire...
---
FYI Your grow room will have more power than the old house I live in, which has a 120vac drop and 60 amp main single phase 120 vac to ground, two wire drop from pole....
Click to expand...
lol thats funny dude, so basically when i get done doin it all right ill have plenty of power for my 1000w and rest of everything, and sorry for the confusion earlier on when i said "12:1" lmao oops but ya the wire is 12awg...but i mean theres kinda alot plugged in (i think) i have, 3 clip on fans ,170cfm inline fan, another small round fan for exhaust on clone room, 1 2ft t5, 1 4ft t5 , 1000w hps, clip on light w cfl in it, and a cloner bucket whew i think thats it lol
 
W

WestSide Ukiah

Member
You could actually have MORE then 3 20 amp circuits. You just cant exceed the total of the sub panel feed at any one time, which would happen to be 60 amps. That probably doesn't make much sense... But if you look at a typical main panel on a house it maybe a 150, or a 200 amp panel. But if you add up all the ampacity of the individual branch circuits it will likely total MORE then 150 or 200 amps.

I have a 200 amp main and coming off of that panel I have a 100 amp sub panel. I also have over 10- 20 amp branch circuits for lighting and convenience outlets. Plus I have a 30 amp hot water heater, A/C circuit, ect. So WAY over 200 amps in theory, but in practice I won't be maxing out all those circuits at the same time. So I don't trip my main.

So you could have for instance 6- 20 amp circuits running to your room for all kinds of things like lights, fans, A/C, ect. You just can't max out any individual 20 amp circuit or in total the 60 amp feeder. There are many calculations to consider. For instance, you don't really want to continuously use more then 80% of a branch circuits capacity. So on a 20 amp circuit, you don't want to be using more then 16 amps continuously. So if you actually need a full 20 amp continuously, for different appliances you would run 2- 20 amp circuits to cover your needs. So now you have 40 amps worth of branch circuits even though you are only using 20 amps.



Just one problem... I was expecting you to have 2 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground. Sounds like you have 2 hots and the electrical box that the dry plug was in could be grounded as if the wires were run in conduit or something? Or is there a smaller bare wire screwed to the back of the outlet box? But that would still leave you without a neutral. At the dryer outlet, where did you connect the white wires from your smaller yellow romex cables you ran to the room?

Without seeing what you have, it sounds like you can't really have a 120/240 volt sub panel as I was thinking. There is a way to have just a 120 volt sub panel with the wires you have IF you truly have a GOOD ground at the dryer outlet. You could still have several 120 volt circuits to run the room, just no 240 volt appliances like some ballasts and big A/C's.

Best option, is run a whole new cable from the main panel to the grow room. Is that feasible? The problem is, now you are working in the main panel to get the new cable in. It was a much easier project when you didn't have to do any work in the main panel...

If running a new cable is not feasible, you can still explore using a 120 volt sub panel with the wire you have. But again, I have no idea what kind, or how good your ground is to the dryer outlet. The ground is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.
 
amrcngror

amrcngror

Active Member
WestSide Ukiah said:
You could actually have MORE then 3 20 amp circuits. You just cant exceed the total of the sub panel feed at any one time, which would happen to be 60 amps. That probably doesn't make much sense... But if you look at a typical main panel on a house it maybe a 150, or a 200 amp panel. But if you add up all the ampacity of the individual branch circuits it will likely total MORE then 150 or 200 amps.

I have a 200 amp main and coming off of that panel I have a 100 amp sub panel. I also have over 10- 20 amp branch circuits for lighting and convenience outlets. Plus I have a 30 amp hot water heater, A/C circuit, ect. So WAY over 200 amps in theory, but in practice I won't be maxing out all those circuits at the same time. So I don't trip my main.

So you could have for instance 6- 20 amp circuits running to your room for all kinds of things like lights, fans, A/C, ect. You just can't max out any individual 20 amp circuit or in total the 60 amp feeder. There are many calculations to consider. For instance, you don't really want to continuously use more then 80% of a branch circuits capacity. So on a 20 amp circuit, you don't want to be using more then 16 amps continuously. So if you actually need a full 20 amp continuously, for different appliances you would run 2- 20 amp circuits to cover your needs. So now you have 40 amps worth of branch circuits even though you are only using 20 amps.



Just one problem... I was expecting you to have 2 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground. Sounds like you have 2 hots and the electrical box that the dry plug was in could be grounded as if the wires were run in conduit or something? Or is there a smaller bare wire screwed to the back of the outlet box? But that would still leave you without a neutral. At the dryer outlet, where did you connect the white wires from your smaller yellow romex cables you ran to the room?

Without seeing what you have, it sounds like you can't really have a 120/240 volt sub panel as I was thinking. There is a way to have just a 120 volt sub panel with the wires you have IF you truly have a GOOD ground at the dryer outlet. You could still have several 120 volt circuits to run the room, just no 240 volt appliances like some ballasts and big A/C's.

Best option, is run a whole new cable from the main panel to the grow room. Is that feasible? The problem is, now you are working in the main panel to get the new cable in. It was a much easier project when you didn't have to do any work in the main panel...

If running a new cable is not feasible, you can still explore using a 120 volt sub panel with the wire you have. But again, I have no idea what kind, or how good your ground is to the dryer outlet. The ground is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.
Click to expand...
the way they had it hooked up before i messed with it is , where they ran short with the old 220 line( that had just 2 wires in it) thats where they tied into it with the new one thhat has all the wires in it they just ran the ground from the new line under a screw , basicaly they ran outta wire and had to continue on, BUT i disconnected it and ran my 2 110 lines from there....i think you were right originally when you said to put in the sub panel, im gonna go with that i beleive it will be much safer.....im gonna run to home depot after work today and get the panel and some 20a breakers....ill jump on here first and see if i can get hold you and try to post some pics so you can getta better idea what i have goin on...
 
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