Dystopia's PPP 250w VScrOG

She keeps reminding me of that and I would object if it wasn't so obvious. Yes, yes, yes, I am a lucky guy and found her when I was 19 playing in a band together in my parents basement! She was the chick singer/keyboards and I was lead and we've been makng beatiful music together ever since! Wow, is that sappy or what!

vertise said:

is there any way if you have time to mention the dimensions of the setup. 2by2 is a tiny space. Dimensions As in the top apparatus etc. Yup the heath robinson setup is what i was relating yours too. Nice.

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Yeah, I'm starting to worry that it might not all fit in there, this is virgin territory for me but I'll make it work somehow.

The bottom screen is 27" by 25" wide; If I could have I would have added about 6" to those dimensions, I think that would be perfect but we'll see. The screen sits 9" above the top of the reservoir. I believe the pcv frame for the vertical screens is about 4.5 feet high, but I'll have to check on that. I still have about a foot left in it's current configuration to raise the light further if necessary, and I could also easily install spacers in the side frames to raise the top of the frame another foot before I hit the ceiling. I don't think height will be an issue, but there is no question that things will get crowded in there before everything is said and done.

EDIT: The pcv frame for the vertical screens is only 3 feet high

Just to add to that, there's about 4 sq ft on the bottom screen, and each of the side screens look like they'll have about 1 sq ft each and there's 7 of them. So this one 250 watt light is illuminating somewhere around 10 or more sq ft. I've been pulling up to 7 oz's dried from my horizontal grows in 4 sq ft with a 250 watt light, so if you do a little math you can see the potential...

I love how your light works and how cheap(i mean this in a good way) your setup is. truly astounding. this grow will be one for the books

post more pics

Not much to report, things are still going smoothly. I’ve been on 12/12 for 3 ½ weeks, and it’s been 1 ½ weeks since I did my only reservoir water change to flower nutes. The pH is still holding steady around 6.25, the plants seemed to like what I did with the last nute add-back, so it’s more of the same. Using a 1:1:1 ratio of Grow-Micro-Bloom, I added back enough to bring the nute level back up to around 875 ppm’s. I’m still waiting for the pH to start dropping before I hit it with the Hammerhead; must be patient, there’s still a long ways to go…

So today I’m going to start talking about how I planned this grow to try to max out the yield. This is a complex subject and I can be long-winded, but I’ll try to strike a balance between detail and brevity. First I’m going to talk a little bit about lights.

Lighting

In order to max out yield you need to effectively utilize every last lumen that the light source is providing. There are basically two ways to do this:

1. Single Light Source: If you are using a single light source like a HID, you can shape the plants around the light to maximize the yield. Hanging the light vertically allows you to absolutely maximize this effect, but even with a horizontal light you still need to shape the canopy to max out the light potential.

2. Multiple Light Sources: If you are using multiple light sources, like CFL’s or HID supplemented with CFL’s, you can shape the lights around the plants to maximize the yield. I’ve seen trees grown with CFL’s shaped around them like Christmas tree lights.

This is a major difference; everything I’m going to talk about here, from planning to topping and pruning to vegetation time can be different. I’m not real experienced with CFL’s; this tutorial will be on how to maximize your yield from a single HID light source in a typical small grow. I would recommend following Roseman’s outstanding tutorials if you want to max out your yield using multiple light sources, and going elsewhere if you’re planning a larger-scale grow op.

When planning your grow using a single light source, the first thing you need to consider is how big an area the light will support, both in horizontal light coverage and vertical penetration.

Horizontal Footprint. For good growth, most conventional wisdom states that marijuana plants require a minimum of 2,000 lumens per sq ft for seedlings, 3,000 for vegetation, and 5,000 for flowering. The plant’s light needs can vary based on strain, so these are general guidelines. When calculating the horizontal footprint that your light will support, you start with the lumens the light puts out and divide by the above numbers.

For example, I vegetate with a 250 watt Metal Halide light that puts out approximately 18,000 lumens. Divide 18,000 by 3,000 and you get 6…that means my light will support 6 sq ft of plants vegetating, or about a 2.5’ X 2.5’ area. This is the largest area my light will support; but the periphery of this area will not be receiving anywhere near 3,000 lumens, so I go for a smaller area of 2’ X 2’ to increase the average lumens to 4500 per sq ft (18,000 lumens divided by 4 sq ft = 4500 lumens/sq ft).

For flowering, I use a Hortilux 250 watt bulb that puts out 30,000 lumens. Divide 30,000 by 5,000 and I still end up with 6. So 6 sq ft, or a 2.5’ X 2.5’ area, is the maximum footprint my light will support in flowering. Again, I restrict that to a 2’ X 2’ area to increase the average lumens per sq ft to about 7500.

You can do the above calculations for the light you are using to determine the maximum footprint it will support.

Vertical Penetration. How far the light penetrates into the canopy is dependent on how close the light is to the canopy and the wattage of the light. The following table shows penetration based on wattage and having the light as close to the canopy as possible:

Wattage______Penetration range
250w................6-12”
400w................12-18”
600w................18-26”
1000w..............26-36”

Obviously, a denser canopy decreases the penetration, so the lower number is based on a dense canopy; the higher number on a sparse canopy.

Taken together, the horizontal footprint and vertical penetration form a “box” that contains the best lighting conditions for flowering marijuana in. If I hang my 250 watt HPS light horizontally about 8” away from the canopy that box’s dimensions are approximately 24” X 24” x 10”:

Of course, the buds at the edge of the box will not be getting optimal light so they will be smaller and less dense. Having reflective material around the plants really helps to diminish this drop-off.

You can change the dimensions of the box by raising or lowering the light. Lowering it decreases the footprint but increases the penetration (fewer plants, bigger buds); raising it increases the footprint but decreases the penetration (more plants, smaller buds).

It’s up to the grower: does he want big (denser) buds or more (less dense) buds?

Light distance from the canopy. In many cases heat is the limiting factor when determining how close to the canopy you can put your light, but if you’re using a cool tube that is properly ventilated you can get the light real close without doing heat damage. That doesn’t mean you can’t hurt your plants by putting the lights as close as heat will allow, though. Every single-source light has a sweet spot located directly under the lamp where the lumens are the highest. This sweet spot (which can be over 100,000 lumens for a 1000 watt bulb) can FAR exceed the lumens put out by the sun and can damage the plant. For the best penetration you want to get the light as close as possible without damaging the plants. The highest light intensity (measured in foot candles) that the sun puts out is around 10,000 fc; for indoor growing, 9,000 fc is considered the limit before you can start damaging the plant. Below is a table showing the distance from the canopy that a particular wattage light, if hung horizontally in a hood, will generate 9000 fc:

Wattage__________Minimum safe distance from canopy (if heat is not a factor)
250w........................6”
400w........................9”
600w........................12”
1000w......................18”

This is the closest you can get the light to the canopy without damaging the plants, if heat is not a factor. This has also been my experience with 250 watt horizontal grows; If I let them get closer than 6” to the light they start to bleach out and curl up.

But as you can see here, my plants in my current grow get much closer to the light than 6” without being damaged:

So at this point you might be asking “WTF?” Everything I’ve said so far is for a light hung horizontally, in a hood, over the canopy. Everything changes when you hang the light vertically and extend the hood so that it is around the plants…more on this later…

vertise said:

post more pics

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OK, here you go. These are pictures of my pond in the backyard. I built that pond 8 years ago and have never cleaned it. It's going through it's pre-winter die-off, but in spring and summer this thing is teeming with life. And I would drink the water out of it, it's so clear. Another example of a balanced system.

Oops, I think you meant examples of my grow. Here's the progression from when I started 12/12 (3 1/2 weeks ago) to today. For you newbies out there, this is what is known as "stretch" and you have to plan for it. I'll be talking about this in my next tutorial...

And some more pictures:










That's it for today!

Gee I hope Dys will always use his powers fo good! LOL! I'm going to school!

so the netting prevents the plants from growing tall?

slk said:

so the netting prevents the plants from growing tall?

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No, not at all. The netting is used as a base that I can tie the plants to so that I can easily shape the plants around the light. If you take the plants away, the netting would form more or less a cylinder around the light. Tie the plants to the net as they grow and now you have a cylinder of plants around the light...

Very nice Dystopia. This thread has helped me immensely to plan for the 400w setup i'm looking to get. as soon as it lets me it's rep for you buddy! lol.

The pH has dropped to 6.12 in the last few days and I think they’re FINALLY ready to start full-scale flowering. Things are getting real dense in there:

I’m going to hit them with the Hammerhead tomorrow and see if I can get the pH to stabilize again. There are an incredible number of buds stuffed in there; it’s hard to see them all from any one angle because of all the fan leaves. And they should explode in the next couple of weeks…things could get real tight:

Absolutely beautiful!

Looking great dystopia!
Real frosty and they sure are filling in
What is your ppm at?

Lt Shiny Sides said:

Absolutely beautiful!

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Thank you!

tom__420 said:

Looking great dystopia!
Real frosty and they sure are filling in
What is your ppm at?

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Thanks. PPM's are still at 875, might bump it up to 900 or so tomorrow when I add the Hammerhead.

yo that is very impressive i really like that. I do have a ? though is the bottom of the tube blocked off or is there a fan at the bottom of there ??
kiss-ass

miami30532 said:

yo that is very impressive i really like that. I do have a ? though is the bottom of the tube blocked off or is there a fan at the bottom of there ??
kiss-ass

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Thank you! Fan's at the top, bottom is open. Details and photos about the light setup are in Post #61 Page 7.

sub motha fucken scribed

you my friend r a beast
you and heath r so far the best at this here
riu needs to start a sub-forum for you vert grower
you guys know how to get GPW