DWC Idea

Hi guys. I am currently growing two plants in a deep water culture in a 120 quart igoo cooler. I have a powerful air pump and am getting decent bubbles. I also have a submersible pump that kicks on every couple hours and moves the solution around.
This setup has been working ok for me, but I want to see if I can get better looking roots with less noise. The air pump is quite loud. Temperature is also a concern since I do not run a chiller. Current my temp doesn’t go over 68 degree Fahrenheit. Bit of I run the submersible pump too much it jumps over 70 pretty easily.

So I am thinking of ways to eliminate the air pump. I have some neat venturies that I can attach to 1/2” plumbing. I was thinking I could run a 1200 gph iwaki external pump with 1” outlet that goes into 4 of these Venturies. Those would just point into the solution either above or below the water line. I would also run an inline filter of some sort to keep it all clean.

My concerns for this design is heat. My tent is well ventilated so I not worried about air temp, more so about water temp. The iwaki is a powerful pump and I know it creates some heat, just not sure how much. I am also concerned that I may not have enough disolved oxygen with just the venturies.

I have also considered scrapping the DWC and just trying high pressure aeroponics, but my current setup wouldn’t be an easy conversion.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

loppydog said:

Hi guys. I am currently growing two plants in a deep water culture in a 120 quart igoo cooler. I have a powerful air pump and am getting decent bubbles. I also have a submersible pump that kicks on every couple hours and moves the solution around.
This setup has been working ok for me, but I want to see if I can get better looking roots with less noise. The air pump is quite loud. Temperature is also a concern since I do not run a chiller. Current my temp doesn’t go over 68 degree Fahrenheit. Bit of I run the submersible pump too much it jumps over 70 pretty easily.

So I am thinking of ways to eliminate the air pump. I have some neat venturies that I can attach to 1/2” plumbing. I was thinking I could run a 1200 gph iwaki external pump with 1” outlet that goes into 4 of these Venturies. Those would just point into the solution either above or below the water line. I would also run an inline filter of some sort to keep it all clean.

My concerns for this design is heat. My tent is well ventilated so I not worried about air temp, more so about water temp. The iwaki is a powerful pump and I know it creates some heat, just not sure how much. I am also concerned that I may not have enough disolved oxygen with just the venturies.

I have also considered scrapping the DWC and just trying high pressure aeroponics, but my current setup wouldn’t be an easy conversion.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

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What do you consider a powerful air pump? Waterfalls an Venturi setups work fine if heat is an issue I’d go with a waterfall. Home Depot 27 gallon totes work really well. Have you ever thought of an under current system?

loppydog said:

Hi guys. I am currently growing two plants in a deep water culture in a 120 quart igoo cooler. I have a powerful air pump and am getting decent bubbles. I also have a submersible pump that kicks on every couple hours and moves the solution around.
This setup has been working ok for me, but I want to see if I can get better looking roots with less noise. The air pump is quite loud. Temperature is also a concern since I do not run a chiller. Current my temp doesn’t go over 68 degree Fahrenheit. Bit of I run the submersible pump too much it jumps over 70 pretty easily.

So I am thinking of ways to eliminate the air pump. I have some neat venturies that I can attach to 1/2” plumbing. I was thinking I could run a 1200 gph iwaki external pump with 1” outlet that goes into 4 of these Venturies. Those would just point into the solution either above or below the water line. I would also run an inline filter of some sort to keep it all clean.

My concerns for this design is heat. My tent is well ventilated so I not worried about air temp, more so about water temp. The iwaki is a powerful pump and I know it creates some heat, just not sure how much. I am also concerned that I may not have enough disolved oxygen with just the venturies.

I have also considered scrapping the DWC and just trying high pressure aeroponics, but my current setup wouldn’t be an easy conversion.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Click to expand...

so you have an air stone and a submersible pump in there? i feel like the pump is redundant. that air stone keeps the nutrient solution mixed.

I am using an ECO plus 1300 gph air pump. I used stones at first then moved to soaker hoses in circles under each root mass. I will go from having great looking roots and then ill get a little discoloration and sediment. I try to do a water change every week or two, but sometimes it goes longer. I turn on the mixing pump mostly just to try to keep any sediment off the bottom and in the filter. Some of the discoloration is probably just staining from the nutes, but I still feel like I could create a better root environment. I am using Hydroguard for the beneficial bacteria, but I think next grow I might try a sterile res.

As far as going with a different system, I have considered it, but I have spent kind of a lot of time getting my SCROG in place and I have a limit to the height. My res sits directly on the floor so I cannot drain that into another secondary reservoir without using a transfer pump. But I could add an external pump right next to the res drain on the floor. That is why I was thinking I could use that to really get the water moving. I am thinking that I could keep the nutrient water from getting stagnant. If the pump truly moves 1200 GPH I would replace my entire 20 gallon reservoir every minute! Maybe if I keep the dump tubes above the water line it will agitate the surface and really add some oxygen. I do worry that if it is too aggressive it might hard on the roots though.

loppydog said:

I am using an ECO plus 1300 gph air pump. I used stones at first then moved to soaker hoses in circles under each root mass. I will go from having great looking roots and then ill get a little discoloration and sediment. I try to do a water change every week or two, but sometimes it goes longer. I turn on the mixing pump mostly just to try to keep any sediment off the bottom and in the filter. Some of the discoloration is probably just staining from the nutes, but I still feel like I could create a better root environment. I am using Hydroguard for the beneficial bacteria, but I think next grow I might try a sterile res.

As far as going with a different system, I have considered it, but I have spent kind of a lot of time getting my SCROG in place and I have a limit to the height. My res sits directly on the floor so I cannot drain that into another secondary reservoir without using a transfer pump. But I could add an external pump right next to the res drain on the floor. That is why I was thinking I could use that to really get the water moving. I am thinking that I could keep the nutrient water from getting stagnant. If the pump truly moves 1200 GPH I would replace my entire 20 gallon reservoir every minute! Maybe if I keep the dump tubes above the water line it will agitate the surface and really add some oxygen. I do worry that if it is too aggressive it might hard on the roots though.

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I change my water only once or twice a grow. I think your creating too much heat with that pump. If your only doing a dwc and not an rdwc I would ditch the 1200 gph pump. Your water temps are the issue with your roots just went over this on another thread too. Remember igloo coolers will keep that heat or cold inside and won’t get rid of it that easy or at all in your case compounding on itself making a bad environment for your roots. I don’t run sterile res. Take a pic of your setup and let’s see what your working with exactly. Also waterfalls and Venturi setups can create plenty of DO if done right 9 times out of 10 beating air pumps every time or equal to air pumps.

loppydog said:

I am using an ECO plus 1300 gph air pump. I used stones at first then moved to soaker hoses in circles under each root mass. I will go from having great looking roots and then ill get a little discoloration and sediment. I try to do a water change every week or two, but sometimes it goes longer. I turn on the mixing pump mostly just to try to keep any sediment off the bottom and in the filter. Some of the discoloration is probably just staining from the nutes, but I still feel like I could create a better root environment. I am using Hydroguard for the beneficial bacteria, but I think next grow I might try a sterile res.

As far as going with a different system, I have considered it, but I have spent kind of a lot of time getting my SCROG in place and I have a limit to the height. My res sits directly on the floor so I cannot drain that into another secondary reservoir without using a transfer pump. But I could add an external pump right next to the res drain on the floor. That is why I was thinking I could use that to really get the water moving. I am thinking that I could keep the nutrient water from getting stagnant. If the pump truly moves 1200 GPH I would replace my entire 20 gallon reservoir every minute! Maybe if I keep the dump tubes above the water line it will agitate the surface and really add some oxygen. I do worry that if it is too aggressive it might hard on the roots though.

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Also check this tread out I weighed in to help straighten out the issue. It sounds like your roots are in a similar boat. Again let’s see what your working with.

http://rollitup.org/t/is-this-root-rot.958255/

loppydog said:

Hi guys. I am currently growing two plants in a deep water culture in a 120 quart igoo cooler. I have a powerful air pump and am getting decent bubbles. I also have a submersible pump that kicks on every couple hours and moves the solution around.
This setup has been working ok for me, but I want to see if I can get better looking roots with less noise. The air pump is quite loud. Temperature is also a concern since I do not run a chiller. Current my temp doesn’t go over 68 degree Fahrenheit. Bit of I run the submersible pump too much it jumps over 70 pretty easily.

So I am thinking of ways to eliminate the air pump. I have some neat venturies that I can attach to 1/2” plumbing. I was thinking I could run a 1200 gph iwaki external pump with 1” outlet that goes into 4 of these Venturies. Those would just point into the solution either above or below the water line. I would also run an inline filter of some sort to keep it all clean.

My concerns for this design is heat. My tent is well ventilated so I not worried about air temp, more so about water temp. The iwaki is a powerful pump and I know it creates some heat, just not sure how much. I am also concerned that I may not have enough disolved oxygen with just the venturies.

I have also considered scrapping the DWC and just trying high pressure aeroponics, but my current setup wouldn’t be an easy conversion.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Click to expand...

The water pump isn't needed at all, and it's what's heating your water up. 68 is good.

If you keep your res and pump outside of the tent, it'll help a lot.

Aero is a pain, IMHO. Emitters get clogged all the time!

My thoughts are that if your running a flooded root zone setup with out a chiller it’s an uphill battle but lots do it. As for the air pump, I ditched mine for a water pump using waterfall, never in DWC though, and other methods to creat DO. With my setup if temps climbed above 70 for any length of time the roots started to suffer, plants still grew but not optimally. I would think due to the massive root ball you will run into issues with roots clogging up intake of pump, then all hell will break loose, but I could be wrong.

I'll see about adding pics later today. Does anyone know how many about how many degrees the external Iwaki pump might add to my reservoir if I run it 24/7? I want to try this setup, but its a bit expensive just to find out it will not work. I have considered getting a chiller, but it just seems like such a bulky expensive solution. It would seem that I could switch to something other than DWC before going that route.

loppydog said:

I'll see about adding pics later today. Does anyone know how many about how many degrees the external Iwaki pump might add to my reservoir if I run it 24/7? I want to try this setup, but its a bit expensive just to find out it will not work. I have considered getting a chiller, but it just seems like such a bulky expensive solution. It would seem that I could switch to something other than DWC before going that route.

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Too many variables to tell for sure but I’m sure it’s adding at minimum several degrees. Again pics of how your setup will help determine what’s the bestest and least expensive route you can go. Or there’s always dirt and coco.

loppydog said:

I'll see about adding pics later today. Does anyone know how many about how many degrees the external Iwaki pump might add to my reservoir if I run it 24/7? I want to try this setup, but its a bit expensive just to find out it will not work. I have considered getting a chiller, but it just seems like such a bulky expensive solution. It would seem that I could switch to something other than DWC before going that route.

Click to expand...

Yep, too many variables. But, there are methods to help with those temps. A small fan, blowing on the pump to disperse standing heat, can make a huge difference.

JSB99 said:

Yep, too many variables. But, there are methods to help with those temps. A small fan, blowing on the pump to disperse standing heat, can make a huge difference.

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this is what i did for my 2nd DWC grow and the little fan blowing on the air pump probably reduced the water temp more than all the other things i did. kept it below 68 the entire grow.

Smoky

I hope this image works. I can post more pics if need be. I keep my air pump outside of my tent, so I am not sure keeping it cooler would do much for temps.

Here ya go guys

I was going to go venturi till i saw this

This ia not my post but something everyone has been asking about

Again not my post .

Here ya go. Just remember o2 is easy to add to water but getting it fhrough the roots is the deciding factor.

Low temps help but not a crazy amount as shown. But the lower temps do slow growth of nasty things


Again not my post copied off another forum thread.







The results are IN!

PH 6.2
PPM 820
Measured in mg/l

DO levels at 67F:
Air stones: 8.0
Ventruri: 8.0
Water fall: 8.1
Flooming: 7.9
CapnStyle: 8.1
All at the same time: 8.2

DO levels at 78F:
Air stones: 7.2
Ventruri: 7.2
Water fall: 7.3
Flooming: 7.1
CapnStyle: 7.3
All at the same time: 7.4

I also tried adding 5ml/gal of H2O2 at the request of sky in the warm water. This raised the DO to 7.6. Still, not even close to the DO levels in cooler water. 10 hours later I checked it again, and the DO was back down to 7.4 H2O2 is not a good solution.

My hopes are crushed. I was hoping there would be a technique that would compensate for high water temps. If you have warm water, can you add more air to compensate? Nope. Take a look at thenumbers. No matter how much air you add, youcan't get DO levels past their saturation point.

It's all about temp. I don't care if you if you use 100 airstones or a hot tub venturi, water has acertainoxygen saturation point, at a certain temperature, and you can't get it any higher. All ofthe methods are acceptable methods. It is notpossible tocompensate for higher temps, by putting in more air.

loppydog said:

I hope this image works. I can post more pics if need be. I keep my air pump outside of my tent, so I am not sure keeping it cooler would do much for temps.View attachment 4094972

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Nice setup you got there

Cold$moke said:

Nice setup you got there

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Thanks! I just went from LEDs to a couple Ceramic Metal Halide lights. I am really liking the difference so far! So when you say you were going to go venturi, do you mean you went another direction? It seems to me that if all methods add about the same DO, do the easiest with the least amount of heat and noise.

loppydog said:

Thanks! I just went from LEDs to a couple Ceramic Metal Halide lights. I am really liking the difference so far! So when you say you were going to go venturi, do you mean you went another direction? It seems to me that if all methods add about the same DO, do the easiest with the least amount of heat and noise.

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Why did you switch from leds? Were they the cheaper built ones? They all do add close to the same it’s depends on your situation. I like waterfalls BUT I built my rooms I did so in my basement and the floor wicks away too much heat so I use a air pump to add heat to bring my water up to 64 degrees. I know a bad problem to have lol.

The LEDs were not top of the line, but not cheap either. They worked OK, but I noticed a HUGE difference with the CMH. Especially with canopy penetration. My colas are much longer and bigger in diameter. I suspect I might get twice the weight this grow. With healthier roots throughout the entire grow, I expect to do even better.

Well like I said flooded root zone grows can be successful without a chiller and yup a basement floor works, but if you want to keep your canopy at the optimum temp and the root zone at the optimum temp then barring a cold floor you need a chiller IMO. I grew for years without one, things got a lot easier with . And really are they that much of an investment when taking in the whole picture? I am lucky that it’s my trade so I can cheap out but a used titanium aquarium chiller is a few hundred bucks I would think.

loppydog said:

The LEDs were not top of the line, but not cheap either. They worked OK, but I noticed a HUGE difference with the CMH. Especially with canopy penetration. My colas are much longer and bigger in diameter. I suspect I might get twice the weight this grow. With healthier roots throughout the entire grow, I expect to do even better.

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Ah see my cob builds are awesome, next run I’ll be using two of hlgs 600h quantum boards. I can’t wait to see what 1280 real Watts of qb light will do. I’ve used all kinds of the so called high end leds and found them lacking I still use them to veg and stuff. I’ve had kinds xl1000, lush’s Leds, California light works, a few black dogs, since moving to cob lights I’ve been much happier. Now I’m hoping that this quantum leap will be the last lmao but in reality I’m a techie so I know I’ll find something else. Anyone else see what I did there I made a quantum leap pun........I think I’m too high to be on anymore tonightlol