Dr. Bruce Bugbee method: NASA technique on Mars etc.

Overgrowtho

Overgrowtho

Well-Known Member
Milky Weed said:
It’s going to be a bit before I feel confident enough in my own abilities to pass on the info, but it will be done.
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Let me ask a couple of basic questions to get to the practical and pragmatic.

We've already discussed the new media formula in this thread.

How about any updates on the nutrient composition? Is he still recommending the same nutrients for the entire run or did he update to add more of P and K in flower yet?

Also, if anyone can answer: his formula does not really have micronutrients? Its just the NPK + his composition of the media which of course has mostly inert nutrient profile except for the silica and calcium etc... Overall it seems to lack the other micro nutrients. Isn't that causing a deficiency?
 
Milky Weed

Milky Weed

Well-Known Member
Overgrowtho said:
Let me ask a couple of basic questions to get to the practical and pragmatic.

We've already discussed the new media formula in this thread.

How about any updates on the nutrient composition? Is he still recommending the same nutrients for the entire run or did he update to add more of P and K in flower yet?

Also, if anyone can answer: his formula does not really have micronutrients? Its just the NPK + his composition of the media which of course has mostly inert nutrient profile except for the silica and calcium etc... Overall it seems to lack the other micro nutrients. Isn't that causing a deficiency?
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Numbers are for hydroponics, and depending on growth rates this will need to be tweaked for different enviroments.The refills are for when flowering starts.
NO-78ppm
NH-0---35ppm refill
P-31ppm
K-140ppm
Ca-60ppm
Mg-19ppm
S-26ppm
Si-17ppm
Fe-1.4ppm---.6ppm refillf for 2ppm total
B-0.4ppm
Mn-0.2ppm
Zn-0.2ppm
Cu-0.1ppm
Cl-1ppm
Mo-9.6 Parts per billion
Ni-0.2 Parts per trillion
 
Overgrowtho

Overgrowtho

Well-Known Member
So your saying Bugbee has done away with the whole 20-10-20? How does one get their hands on this new nutrient formula??
 
Milky Weed

Milky Weed

Well-Known Member
Overgrowtho said:
So your saying Bugbee has done away with the whole 20-10-20? How does one get their hands on this new nutrient formula??
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No, 20-10-20 is still viable in this situation, those are just the parameters to shoot for. I assume you mix your own from base elements. Im sure there are many formulas that will get you in the ballpark of that. It helps to find the actual elemental % of an element in a compound, like the potassium they use in fertilizers is k2o. I believe its roughly 80% elemental potassium. It is not so black and white and calculations must be made.
 
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Scotnvin

New Member
Is this right? NPK 20-10-20 is 120-26-100 ppm.

In reddit interview Dr Bugbee states:

"Here is what we know so far: 15 ppm P is adequate during vegetative growth, but unfertilized cannabis flower are a strong sink for P and accumulate more than 1% P in the flower buds. This is not needed to any physiology function, and it is stored, partly as phytic acid. The flowers can be such a strong sink for P that they suck P from the leaves, and this can create a P deficiency in the leaves. So we now recommend going to 50 ppm about 4 to 5 weeks prior to harvest.

The other nutrients stay the same throughout the life cycle."

NPK 20-20-20 calculates out to 120-52-100 ppm.

So, this is what I should use during flower?

Will my EC be different if I stay with the 0.6g/l ?

Thanks
 
Overgrowtho

Overgrowtho

Well-Known Member
Good questions. How would one aquire these chemicals in a new market? Just contact a chemical company?

his formula does not really have micronutrients?
 
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Doc50holliday

Member
Doc50holliday said:
Hey man! Just transplanted my first plant into the bugbee mix. My first watering I had 6.0 PH 650 PPM going in

5.8 PH 380 PPMs coming out. I guess it’s better that the run off is lower than higher?

Should I water a little less with less leaching to raise the PPMs in the run off to be within the acceptable levels?
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Following up to my previous post.. just got into week 2 of flower. That sorry looking spindly plant I originally posted has has really began growing vigorously. Using the (old) higbee method from
YouTube. Considering taking his online course as well!
 

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Doc50holliday

Member
Plants are looking good. Very healthy, leaves have never showed sign of any deficiency issues.

Only thing is, buds seem small to me. I’m running Lucas formula on other plants and the buds are significantly bigger. But, with that being said. Even the fan leaves on this guy are super frosty, it’s pretty nuts.

I’m thinking I might throw in jacks professional bloom booster in the first week or two of flower. What do you guys think?
 

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Vizzaro

Vizzaro

Active Member
Milky Weed said:
Always prepared to be bashed here :hump:

Making sure what I do share is not simple rehashed newbie stuff is my goal. I’m not an educator, nor trying to attain the status of one. Just want to share some talking points. I fully understand this is nowhere near a few years long agricultural education.


There was a lot of lectures they ended up adding, and overall I feel it was worth it, especially for the first module for the root zone, that had almost 23 sessions in itself.

Value for money 5/5
Rehashing basic topics 3/5
New scientific research 5/5

The scientific research was the most important to me, they dived deep on how temperature affects cannabanoids, how UV light interacts with cannabis, things of this nature. I do not regret this class for a second. They taught a few mathematical formulas for optimal nutrient strengths based on growth rate. Really too much to list here.

It’s going to be a bit before I feel confident enough in my own abilities to pass on the info, but it will be done.
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I have questions about the root zone. What if anything did you lean that you found to be really helpful with keeping the root zone optimized?

Also about his new media Mix I know he uses 75% Peat Moss, 13% Vermiculite, 12% Rice Hulls amended with Wollastonite at 1g per Liter of media, Hydrated Lime I am not to sure how many grams per liter of media they use and I saw that they add a wetting agent to their media, do you know what wetting agent they use and how its applied to their media?
 
Vizzaro

Vizzaro

Active Member
Doc50holliday said:
Plants are looking good. Very healthy, leaves have never showed sign of any deficiency issues.

Only thing is, buds seem small to me. I’m running Lucas formula on other plants and the buds are significantly bigger. But, with that being said. Even the fan leaves on this guy are super frosty, it’s pretty nuts.

I’m thinking I might throw in jacks professional bloom booster in the first week or two of flower. What do you guys think?
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Could be different phenotypes. But I am not sure. That is great to hear you are not having any issues. I am starting to have issue with my grow. My tap water which is what I have been using since I have been growing has gone up in EC from 0.5 to 0.7 so I feel that is too hard to give to my plants now and I believe it may had caused some nutrient imbalance in my plants unfortunately. So now I am trying to correct that. Ugh this gets exhausting sometimes.
 
Milky Weed

Milky Weed

Well-Known Member
Vizzaro said:
I have questions about the root zone. What if anything did you lean that you found to be really helpful with keeping the root zone optimized?

Also about his new media Mix I know he uses 75% Peat Moss, 13% Vermiculite, 12% Rice Hulls amended with Wollastonite at 1g per Liter of media, Hydrated Lime I am not to sure how many grams per liter of media they use and I saw that they add a wetting agent to their media, do you know what wetting agent they use and how its applied to their media?
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He taught how things drain, and how container height can really affect how media behaves. Also how micros in media is not always beneficial, especally in dtw hydro where the micro-organisms can consume too much oxygen in the media.

He noted its mainly an issue when growers use fresh pine shavings to grow in, too many micro-organisms cause oxygen deprivation to the roots.

I dont believe this applies to organic growing.
 
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Doc50holliday

Member
Vizzaro said:
Could be different phenotypes. But I am not sure. That is great to hear you are not having any issues. I am starting to have issue with my grow. My tap water which is what I have been using since I have been growing has gone up in EC from 0.5 to 0.7 so I feel that is too hard to give to my plants now and I believe it may had caused some nutrient imbalance in my plants unfortunately. So now I am trying to correct that. Ugh this gets exhausting sometimes.
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Bro! Your grows and progress were the ones than inspired me to try this method

honestly I’ve noticed my EC running higher and Higher over time and I’ve simply just watered more over time to give them that flush. I noticed my EC climbing up a bit as well and I just threw some more PH balanced dol lime + gypsum media on top and all has been”well”.

I still feel like your plants were better. Had bigger buds and what not. I had a zillion shoots which probably contributed to smaller buds bud according to jacks. They recommend a bloom booster on the first week or two of flower, I’m going to try that in my next run.

My Lucas formula buds were all bigger than my bugbee Method buds. I think I’m going to add a bloom booster from jacks (bugbees preferred nutes in his YouTube video) in the first couple weeks of flower. But at this point I guess it’s not “bugbee” so maybe I shouldn’t continue posting here.
 
Vizzaro

Vizzaro

Active Member
Milky Weed said:
He taught how things drain, and how container height can really affect how media behaves. Also how micros in media is not always beneficial, especally in dtw hydro where the micro-organisms can consume too much oxygen in the media.

He noted its mainly an issue when growers use fresh pine shavings to grow in, too many micro-organisms cause oxygen deprivation to the roots.

I dont believe this applies to organic growing.
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Thank you for the reply and for the info. Any information on his media mix and what wetting agent he adds to his media mix? I know he says they keep their media pretty fluffy so the plants are not at all stressed in the root zone. I'm guessing he uses Yucca Powder (since I'm unable to find any other powdered wetting agent). And about the containers is it good to have a wide container or a tall container? I think I may have compacted my media into my pots and it's causing issues.
 
Vizzaro

Vizzaro

Active Member
Doc50holliday said:
Bro! Your grows and progress were the ones than inspired me to try this method

honestly I’ve noticed my EC running higher and Higher over time and I’ve simply just watered more over time to give them that flush. I noticed my EC climbing up a bit as well and I just threw some more PH balanced dol lime + gypsum media on top and all has been”well”.

I still feel like your plants were better. Had bigger buds and what not. I had a zillion shoots which probably contributed to smaller buds bud according to jacks. They recommend a bloom booster on the first week or two of flower, I’m going to try that in my next run.

My Lucas formula buds were all bigger than my bugbee Method buds. I think I’m going to add a bloom booster from jacks (bugbees preferred nutes in his YouTube video) in the first couple weeks of flower. But at this point I guess it’s not “bugbee” so maybe I shouldn’t continue posting here.
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Thank you for that. Yes I would say the one with more shoots would have the smaller buds unfortunately. There is usually a happy medium in there. I try to only top once cause of this.

I am trying my best to correct the issue. I know it's user error aka my fault. Haha it's just difficult trying to determine where I went wrong. But it's all part of the learning process. I will still continue to grow this way. Right now I'm just trying to perfect it. Haha. Your plants look great and I can't wait to see them fatten up. Keep up the good work.
 
Milky Weed

Milky Weed

Well-Known Member
Vizzaro said:
Thank you for the reply and for the info. Any information on his media mix and what wetting agent he adds to his media mix? I know he says they keep their media pretty fluffy so the plants are not at all stressed in the root zone. I'm guessing he uses Yucca Powder (since I'm unable to find any other powdered wetting agent). And about the containers is it good to have a wide container or a tall container? I think I may have compacted my media into my pots and it's causing issues.
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Tall containers are generally best, but anything can work. He never mentioned what wetting agent they use, just listed a few wetting agents. Ide assume an industrial one, yucca is kind of expensive.
 
Vizzaro

Vizzaro

Active Member
Milky Weed said:
Tall containers are generally best, but anything can work. He never mentioned what wetting agent they use, just listed a few wetting agents. Ide assume an industrial one, yucca is kind of expensive.
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Yes, yucca is kind of expensive but I didn't know what to get or what kind of wetting agent you can mix into your media. Tall containers work best, really?! I would have assumed a wider container okay well that's something new. What about how they are able to keep their media or any media fluffy so that the roots are not at all stressed and are able to get enough oxygen?
 
Milky Weed

Milky Weed

Well-Known Member
Vizzaro said:
Yes, yucca is kind of expensive but I didn't know what to get or what kind of wetting agent you can mix into your media. Tall containers work best, really?! I would have assumed a wider container okay well that's something new. What about how they are able to keep their media or any media fluffy so that the roots are not at all stressed and are able to get enough oxygen?
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So he really did not mention anything besides the mix thats allready floating around, just the rice hulls and peat for fluff. He was talking about possibly even moving away from rice hulls and replacing it with wollastonite for the silica. Peat should be fluffy enough on its own, if you re-use it may have to re-fluff it somehow. I just toss it in the garden and use fresh peat.

I use Promix bx that had wetting agent built in i love it. Also taller containers drain better than shorter wider ones.
 
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Overgrowtho

Overgrowtho

Well-Known Member
I've read that they use:

Aquagro 2000G

But this was hard to find for me.

And there are many liquid ones that could perhaps be placed into our fertigation reservoirs.

Understanding that it might be less ideal; but in lieu of a medium-based solid surfactant, I wondered if a liquid surfactant might be helpful to use in it's place? So I asked via email and the guy who replied said: yes.
 
Vizzaro

Vizzaro

Active Member
Milky Weed said:
So he really did not mention anything besides the mix thats allready floating around, just the rice hulls and peat for fluff. He was talking about possibly even moving away from rice hulls and replacing it with wollastonite for the silica. Peat should be fluffy enough on its own, if you re-use it may have to re-fluff it somehow. I just toss it in the garden and use fresh peat.

I use Promix bx that had wetting agent built in i love it. Also taller containers drain better than shorter wider ones.
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Promix bx, I am checking it out and it looks like a nice recipe and it has nutrients in it already. How do you like/prefer that compared to Dr. Bugbee's mix?

Also I take it that packing any media into a pot is a bad idea cause it won't be as fluffy thus causing the roots to suffocate. So then that might be where I went wrong with this grow. I have been having issues with the media drying out and becoming hydrophobic so the water would just run out the side so I figured if I compact it more it would stop that from happening.

Also about water. Does Dr. Bugbee talk about water and if R/O and does he talk about alternatives to hard tap water? I think my tap water is too hard with it being an EC of 0.7.
 
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