Does the 2nd Amendment include Nuclear Arms and Biological Weapons...

I am almost certain this is a fake. This model I mean. If you look at the requirements for U-235, I don't think a 60+ kg carry is in the cards. That includes no shielding, remember. Also the way you do this, in a pipe bomb, is to create 2 perfect hemispheres, at slightly above, (not too much!!!) exactly 1/2 critical mass each. This hemisphere is 170 mm across for U-235. Not that picture, to be sure.

It has to be assemble so that the pieces can never even be near each other. A blue flash of death ray occurs.

The 2 pieces are then slapped together by explosives at each end of the pipe. Each surface must be mirror smooth, flat and parallel to each other at the instant of impact. The explosive pressure creates the tamper, and increases the instantaneous, density very dramatically, so the mass is now well over critical. BOOM.

Critical mass of a bare sphere


Top: A sphere of fissile material is too small to allow the chain reaction to become self-sustaining as neutrons generated by fissions can too easily escape.

Middle: By increasing the mass of the sphere to a critical mass, the reaction can become self-sustaining.

Bottom: Surrounding the original sphere with a neutron reflector increases the efficiency of the reactions and also allows the reaction to become self-sustaining.



The shape with minimal critical mass and the smallest physical dimensions is a sphere. Bare-sphere critical masses at normal density of some actinides are listed in the following table.

Nuclide
Half Life
(y)
Critical Mass
(kg)
Diameter
(cm)
Ref
uranium-235
704,000,000
52
17
[SUP][2][/SUP]

That 'suitcase nuke' is indeed a fake. Not just a fake, but a fake made for a politician to make a grandstanding show with. I forget which douchenozzle it was, but some congressman produced that on the floor for the benefit of the TV cameras to show us all how dangerous the world is. There are nuclear devices small enough to be more or less man portable, but not like a piece of plumbing pipe in a Samsonite shielded with aluminum foil. That picture is an example of a politicain trying to scare the public into handing them more power. Offensive at it's core.

The original question does make for a good ponder. If the founders meant anything when they wrote the Second Ammendment, they meant artillery. Rifles are important, but cannons and mortars are what turns battles (particularly in the context of the all important naval engagements of that time.) In modern times we accept the public notion that they meant man portable weapons, but that wasn't always the case. US history has several cases in point of privateers and non governmental forces having heavy weapons. Roosevelt's Rough Riders had Maxims and cannons (I used to know what cannons they had but I forget), Chennault had 20mm machineguns in his planes (good luck getting licensed for that thse days) and Henry Ford had two water cooled 1917 30cal belt feds on the roof of his house. You could buy and own any artilery you could afford prior to the NFA of 1933. You kind of still can, but it's harder and more expensive. Now if you want a breach loading cannon you have to have it and the rounds all registered, they are considered "Destructive Devices" and are regulated in the same way as machineguns and silencers and the like. That's an important distinction, they are not "illegal", they are "regulated". You can buy a Mah Deuce, but it's not cheap and you can't just order it through your local gun shop. You want a 40mm anti tank rifled cannon from WWII? You can't buy it with an EBT card, but if you have the dough you can get one. Last one I saw for sale was in the $50k range and it was in great shape. Anyway, if destructive devices (bombs, artillery and such) are regulated but obtainable, why not nukes.......?

In the case of a vial of anthrax, there again it's not impossible to legally get it. You can't buy it at CVS, but you can get licensed and obtain it. There are vials of nasty stuff in poorly guarded campus labs all across the country. Try not to think about that as you are laying in bed, you won't sleep well.

Nukes I'm not sure of, but I do know that there are quite a few privately owned nuclear reactors. They are heavilly regulated by the government, but are none the less owned by private (non government) entities. Could you get licensed for a fission explosive device? In a practical sense I doubt it, but in the absolute it's hard to say if it is or is not possible. Hard to say without research that I'm not going to waste time doing anyway.

Does the 2nd protect our right to own The Bomb? Interesting hypothetical question. Moot point, because if I had the money to buy one I wouldn't waste it on that.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
So basically the Constitution should apply now and till the end of time without any form of revision or update as society evolves?
If one element of said Constitution is put aside the integrity of the entire document is at stake? Care to elaborate?

This kind of reasoning is a recipe for disaster. In the future the differences between society and your sacred document will keep growing till it reaches a point where violent conflict will ensue.

I'm throwing my cristal ball away after my last affirmation.
Hark is in Ireland, you in the UK. Me....an American Redneck. Instead of arguing Selah, why not give examples of what you would like us to change?

I can go over the process for changing them You do know that even the Bill of Rights can be Amended....oh right. Amemdments.

Had 10, now 23 or so. Brought in early, No mob rule,
electorial college, etc. WE Tax ourselves, OUR women and former slaves now vote. What Amendments do you want us to have from you vantage from afar?

Although, I must say, it is all based on the Manga-Carta and British common law, except here, the People are the Crown. We are all soveriegns, no King.

So our Docs are no less relevant and probably more so than the Magna Carta. Our Rights are written down. Yours are not. They cannot be changed on whim. Your rights have visibly eroded in my life time.

Oh, and Dog Hair, this is settle law. Personal Arms to form defensive, and instant, milita units. No special weapons, like land mines allowed, but, we can own mortar and field cannon. We can own grenades and rockets. But, this not for attack. WE will form the ruse to pull the guard attention from the armories and take those weapons, if we need to attack.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Not trying to bash anyone here but trying to apply a text from the 18th century today is plain wrong. I'm not discussing or refuting the content of that text but things have changed since then.
The founding fathers where not some divinely inspired individuals but rather politicians, with all the associated shortcomings inherent to that period in time.

George Washington for example owned three hundred slaves, today he'd be arrested as a nut.

Again I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings but wondering if a particular ammendement covers nuclear weapons is borderline insane.

History as teached in schools is selective and partial and the consequences of such teachings are tremenduous in their effects.

If some elements of the Bill of Rights are justified today it's all good, but elements that doesn't apply anymore due to a change in context should be put aside.
Selah, quite right. The method to set aside irrelevant portions of the constitution is via amendment, a constitutional process. The second amendment remains in full force until that is done. Obeying the law is so bothersome, especially when the progressives KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR ALL OF US.
 
Oh, and Dog Hair, this is settle law. Personal Arms to form defensive, and instant, milita units. No special weapons, like land mines allowed, but, we can own mortar and field cannon. We can own grenades and rockets. But, this not for attack. WE will form the ruse to pull the guard attention from the armories and take those weapons, if we need to attack.
I'm not sure what your saying. Between the comma splicing and such I just don't understand your response.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
OK....I'll I try to smooth it out. For $50k at least, a US citizen may own one of the very few Oerlikon cannon left from WW2 that are transferable. No rounds available. You have to make them.

Really as I said before, WMDs of any kind are not part of the 2nd. Why do you ask?






 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Not really. Ever heard of suitcase nukes?

"Suitcase Nukes" are pure science fiction.

your image was quite hilarious though. i suppose you are intimating that this is a REAL NUCLEAR WEAPON.


my TOTALLY REAL RAY GUN beats the living shit out of your fake nuclear briefcase.

 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
That 'suitcase nuke' is indeed a fake. Not just a fake, but a fake made for a politician to make a grandstanding show with. I forget which douchenozzle it was, but some congressman produced that on the floor for the benefit of the TV cameras to show us all how dangerous the world is. There are nuclear devices small enough to be more or less man portable, but not like a piece of plumbing pipe in a Samsonite shielded with aluminum foil. That picture is an example of a politicain trying to scare the public into handing them more power. Offensive at it's core.

The original question does make for a good ponder. If the founders meant anything when they wrote the Second Ammendment, they meant artillery. Rifles are important, but cannons and mortars are what turns battles (particularly in the context of the all important naval engagements of that time.) In modern times we accept the public notion that they meant man portable weapons, but that wasn't always the case. US history has several cases in point of privateers and non governmental forces having heavy weapons. Roosevelt's Rough Riders had Maxims and cannons (I used to know what cannons they had but I forget), Chennault had 20mm machineguns in his planes (good luck getting licensed for that thse days) and Henry Ford had two water cooled 1917 30cal belt feds on the roof of his house. You could buy and own any artilery you could afford prior to the NFA of 1933. You kind of still can, but it's harder and more expensive. Now if you want a breach loading cannon you have to have it and the rounds all registered, they are considered "Destructive Devices" and are regulated in the same way as machineguns and silencers and the like. That's an important distinction, they are not "illegal", they are "regulated". You can buy a Mah Deuce, but it's not cheap and you can't just order it through your local gun shop. You want a 40mm anti tank rifled cannon from WWII? You can't buy it with an EBT card, but if you have the dough you can get one. Last one I saw for sale was in the $50k range and it was in great shape. Anyway, if destructive devices (bombs, artillery and such) are regulated but obtainable, why not nukes.......?

In the case of a vial of anthrax, there again it's not impossible to legally get it. You can't buy it at CVS, but you can get licensed and obtain it. There are vials of nasty stuff in poorly guarded campus labs all across the country. Try not to think about that as you are laying in bed, you won't sleep well.

Nukes I'm not sure of, but I do know that there are quite a few privately owned nuclear reactors. They are heavilly regulated by the government, but are none the less owned by private (non government) entities. Could you get licensed for a fission explosive device? In a practical sense I doubt it, but in the absolute it's hard to say if it is or is not possible. Hard to say without research that I'm not going to waste time doing anyway.

Does the 2nd protect our right to own The Bomb? Interesting hypothetical question. Moot point, because if I had the money to buy one I wouldn't waste it on that.
Tench Coxe made it clear in his address to the second continental congress in support of the second amendment's wording which was VERY clear at the time, aand has only become unclear through the machinations of fools, "arms" refers to EVERY IMPLEMENT OF THE SOLDIER, from the cutlass or saber, to artillery and the warships that carry them.

the Dick Act of 1903 amended the militia act of 1792, requiring that all ablebodied free males between 16 and 60 own "a firearm of a type in common use in the day" and a store of ammunition and "Other" equipment sufficent for mobilization of the militia. these items were to be procured at your own expense, and Teddy Roosevelt felt this included grenades, 2 Colt "Potato Digger" Heavy Machine Guns, a cavalryman's saber and feild artillery. the congress agreed.

i believe that settles the matter.
 

travisw

Well-Known Member
Tench Coxe made it clear in his address to the second continental congress in support of the second amendment's wording which was VERY clear at the time, aand has only become unclear through the machinations of fools, "arms" refers to EVERY IMPLEMENT OF THE SOLDIER, from the cutlass or saber, to artillery and the warships that carry them.

the Dick Act of 1903 amended the militia act of 1792, requiring that all ablebodied free males between 16 and 60 own "a firearm of a type in common use in the day" and a store of ammunition and "Other" equipment sufficent for mobilization of the militia. these items were to be procured at your own expense, and Teddy Roosevelt felt this included grenades, 2 Colt "Potato Digger" Heavy Machine Guns, a cavalryman's saber and feild artillery. the congress agreed.

i believe that settles the matter.
Tench Coxe did say, (and kudos to you for obscure reference of the day), "Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American." http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1421&context=wmborj but to some how extrapolate that into artillery and warships is an aggressive interpretation for most people.

As to the Militia Act of 1903, which you referred to as the Dick Act of 1903, did not require males between 16-60 to own a firearm. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/dickact.asp. You might be confusing your 16-60 number from another Tench quote," THE POWERS
OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY."
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Tench Coxe did say, (and kudos to you for obscure reference of the day), "Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American." http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1421&context=wmborj but to some how extrapolate that into artillery and warships is an aggressive interpretation for most people.

As to the Militia Act of 1903, which you referred to as the Dick Act of 1903, did not require males between 16-60 to own a firearm. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/dickact.asp. You might be confusing your 16-60 number from another Tench quote," THE POWERS
OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY."
ahem.

First: Tench Coxe is hardly obscure. he was one of the leaders of the continental congress and one of the founding members of the constitutional caucus. bolding the word "Terrible" is an emotional game designed to imply that Tench-Dog was disapproving of arms, when nothing could be farther from the truth. The C-Man's use of the word "terrible" was not an indictment of arms, but a description of the nature of the implements at question. soldiers use shovels too, yet nobody has ever tried to ban shovels. he was making clear he was including weapons of war, even "terrible" ones like the cannonade or bombard, not just the humble knife or hatchet, which are also implements of the soldier, just not the "terrible" ones.
Second: "The Militia Act of 1903" IS IN FACT properly named "The Dick Act of 1903". a search for either term returns the same result. the pointless quibble over my use of the Nominal Title as opposed to the Enacted Title serves no purpose save to imply to the oblivious that i was incorrect, when the simple truth is that i was entirely correct.

Third: The Dick Act of 1903 was an amendment to the militia act of 1792, which specified that militia duty was the civic responsibility of EVERY ABLE BODIED (free) MAN Between 16 and 60, changing the nature of militia service. after the Dick Act of 1903, states were no longer expected to hold militia training twice a year compelling the attendance of every able bodied (free) man between 16 and 60, which no state ever actually did anyhow, instead declaring that every able bodied man between 18 and 45 was now part of the "Unorganized Militia" with no particular responsibilities under the law save to make themselves available for the draft into the "Organized Militia" or the entirely extra-constitutional standing army.
the old militia system was never repealed, and the requirement that all free males between 16 and 60 have a .75 caliber musket was amended creating the "Of a type in common use of the day" line as a means of preventing state "Organized Militias" from being forced to use Brown Bess muskets.

those portions of the Militia Act of 1792 which were not directly altered by the Dick Act of 1903 remain in force, including the never-enforced requirement that individuals in the militia ("Organized" or "Un-Organized") posses arms, but rather than the Brown Bess, the specified arm was "a type in common use in the day" for militia service.

you may, if you wish, pretend that the Militia Act of 1792 was repealed (just as you may pretend that rainbows are Unicorn Farts) , and the Dick Act stands alone, but without the Militia Act of 1792 (which is still in force, and is "Good Law"), the Dick Act makes no damned sense, since the Dick Act was drafted as an alteration, and amendment to the still extant Militia Act of 1792.

The Dick Act Of 1903 Is Not A Replacement For The Militia Act Of 1792!

Thus your entire line of argument is invalid and pointless.
 

travisw

Well-Known Member
ahem.

First: Tench Coxe is hardly obscure. he was one of the leaders of the continental congress and one of the founding members of the constitutional caucus. bolding the word "Terrible" is an emotional game designed to imply that Tench-Dog was disapproving of arms, when nothing could be farther from the truth. The C-Man's use of the word "terrible" was not an indictment of arms, but a description of the nature of the implements at question. soldiers use shovels too, yet nobody has ever tried to ban shovels. he was making clear he was including weapons of war, even "terrible" ones like the cannonade or bombard, not just the humble knife or hatchet, which are also implements of the soldier, just not the "terrible" ones.
Second: "The Militia Act of 1903" IS IN FACT properly named "The Dick Act of 1903". a search for either term returns the same result. the pointless quibble over my use of the Nominal Title as opposed to the Enacted Title serves no purpose save to imply to the oblivious that i was incorrect, when the simple truth is that i was entirely correct.

Third: The Dick Act of 1903 was an amendment to the militia act of 1792, which specified that militia duty was the civic responsibility of EVERY ABLE BODIED (free) MAN Between 16 and 60, changing the nature of militia service. after the Dick Act of 1903, states were no longer expected to hold militia training twice a year compelling the attendance of every able bodied (free) man between 16 and 60, which no state ever actually did anyhow, instead declaring that every able bodied man between 18 and 45 was now part of the "Unorganized Militia" with no particular responsibilities under the law save to make themselves available for the draft into the "Organized Militia" or the entirely extra-constitutional standing army.
the old militia system was never repealed, and the requirement that all free males between 16 and 60 have a .75 caliber musket was amended creating the "Of a type in common use of the day" line as a means of preventing state "Organized Militias" from being forced to use Brown Bess muskets.

those portions of the Militia Act of 1792 which were not directly altered by the Dick Act of 1903 remain in force, including the never-enforced requirement that individuals in the militia ("Organized" or "Un-Organized") posses arms, but rather than the Brown Bess, the specified arm was "a type in common use in the day" for militia service.

you may, if you wish, pretend that the Militia Act of 1792 was repealed (just as you may pretend that rainbows are Unicorn Farts) , and the Dick Act stands alone, but without the Militia Act of 1792 (which is still in force, and is "Good Law"), the Dick Act makes no damned sense, since the Dick Act was drafted as an alteration, and amendment to the still extant Militia Act of 1792.

The Dick Act Of 1903 Is Not A Replacement For The Militia Act Of 1792!

Thus your entire line of argument is invalid and pointless.
I wasn't arguing with you. I was correcting you because you were WRONG! If you hadn't rushed on here to try and bully me and actually read what I linked to, you would see that. But in your haste, to increase your post count, and continue to act like a childish little twat, you can't be bothered with little things like the truth can you? Continue trolling you sad little man. Fill up the boards with your wall of text rants about 200+ year old pieces of legislation, and obscure references about long dead historical figures most people have never hear of. Because they matter so much in 2013. Save the wall of text your hoping to post in response to this, for someone who actually believes your nonsense.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
I wasn't arguing with you. I was correcting you because you were WRONG! If you hadn't rushed on here to try and bully me and actually read what I linked to, you would see that. But in your haste, to increase your post count, and continue to act like a childish little twat, you can't be bothered with little things like the truth can you? Continue trolling you sad little man. Fill up the boards with your wall of text rants about 200+ year old pieces of legislation, and obscure references about long dead historical figures most people have never hear of. Because they matter so much in 2013. Save the wall of text your hoping to post in response to this, for someone who actually believes your nonsense.
Tl;dr

Cool post bro.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Tl;dr

Cool post bro.
Well, iac, the law is complicated and not a bit of it doesn't matter. Yet, there are laws that say it is fine to think that, in the USA, at least. :)

And if one feels bullied, then one should stand up the the bully and punch yourself in the mouth.

You are absorbing something from these words that is enabling your inner bully.

Punch it. Punch IT!!! now, NOW!!!
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I wasn't arguing with you. I was correcting you because you were WRONG! If you hadn't rushed on here to try and bully me and actually read what I linked to, you would see that. But in your haste, to increase your post count, and continue to act like a childish little twat, you can't be bothered with little things like the truth can you? Continue trolling you sad little man. Fill up the boards with your wall of text rants about 200+ year old pieces of legislation, and obscure references about long dead historical figures most people have never hear of. Because they matter so much in 2013. Save the wall of text your hoping to post in response to this, for someone who actually believes your nonsense.
travisw, you've piqued my curiosity. What would the nonaggressive view of the Second be? Is there iyo a natural demarcation between arms to which we have a right as individual citizens, and other to which we do not? Where is the boundary to be most reasonably found? (not the imaged sort of reason either) cn

 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I wasn't arguing with you. I was correcting you because you were WRONG! If you hadn't rushed on here to try and bully me and actually read what I linked to, you would see that. But in your haste, to increase your post count, and continue to act like a childish little twat, you can't be bothered with little things like the truth can you? Continue trolling you sad little man. Fill up the boards with your wall of text rants about 200+ year old pieces of legislation, and obscure references about long dead historical figures most people have never hear of. Because they matter so much in 2013. Save the wall of text your hoping to post in response to this, for someone who actually believes your nonsense.
blah blah blah.
you feel bad because you tried to get picayune and failed.
the fact remains the militia was reorganized by the dick act of 1903, but the militia act of 1792 was never repealed, and remains in force, as it was referenced by the court in miller, and re-referenced in heller.

attempting to correct those who are not incorrect, by citing SNOPES of all sources, is the act of a desperate attention seeker.

my post count is irrelevant to whether my assertions were correct, and your feelings of being "cyberbullied" are equally irrelevant to the level of WRONGNESS you shat out in a pathetically ill-conceived attempt to show how super clever you are.

why dont you source your claim i am wrong?

your pointless snopes link was a refutation of an error filled spam email, not my assertions, and on the FACTS snopes agrees with my assertion, even when it cited sources which they admit are in error (a shitty book about the national guard's history that even snopes said was almost entirely wrong)

but yeah sure. gimme your lunch money, or ill stuff you in a gym locker.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Hey, I got this great Idea.

It came to me when Bucky had this contribution that instead of crying about guns we should go after the murderers of all types.

I think it might be fun, if we don't discuss anything.

Yeah, see, my idea, is that we simply fight about who if right, on phrases with multiple meanings, etc.

Of course, like worrying about all murder instead of how evil guns are, just fighting and not talking.....

GETS PRETTY BORING!!!!
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Hey, I got this great Idea.

It came to me when Bucky had this contribution that instead of crying about guns we should go after the murderers of all types.

I think it might be fun, if we don't discuss anything.

Yeah, see, my idea, is that we simply fight about who if right, on phrases with multiple meanings, etc.

Of course, like worrying about all murder instead of how evil guns are, just fighting and not talking.....

GETS PRETTY BORING!!!!
i agree. the issue should have been settled long ago, but the weakminded fools on the left keep trying to come up with new ways to take away our guns and make the second amendment disappear, but unfortunately...


some of us still think the constitution is important.

sorry for cyberbullying you doer, but i just have to ask,

Why Are You Hitting Yourself?
Why Are You Hitting Yourself?
Why Are You Hitting Yourself?
Why Are You Hitting Yourself?
 
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