Do Not Vote For Legalization Or You Are Stupid

DazedNBlazed · Dec 18, 2009

I really have no clue when it comes to this. I would like to see it legalized, but at the same time, I started smoking and shit when it was illegal. It would probably be a lot less appealing to people if it was regulated by the government.

And it's impossible at this point for the government to say, "We were wrong, it's a harmless plant." because they spend millions and millions a year just trying to fight the fucking drug and people would start questioning the government on what else they're wrong about.

Either way, weed will be in my future. :eyesmoke:

trance · Dec 18, 2009

I personally don't think it will be less appealing if made legal. I mean look at alcohol, still appeals to ALOT of people and thats controlled. I am from the UK, our government has just sacked a top government medical advisor because he said that Canabis is less dangerous than riding a horse, let alone the dangers of tobacco or alcohol. Governments, like some people have said have been banging on about how dangerous canabis is for many years. Some of them are now in a position where they are forced to admit they were wrong. It will be a bitter pill to swallow!

Medshed · Dec 18, 2009

Tying back to the OP's point about the economy (although he had it all backwards), we are facing a situation where we can no longer afford prohibition. Politicians no longer have the luxury of spending money on foolish programs that are proven not to work. Combine that fact with Obama's "change" platform and this seems like the best opportunity for the government to change course while still saving face.

Dan Kone · Dec 18, 2009

ford442 said:
california needs to blaze the proper path with tax and regulation..!! no 1 oz limits though - you really want people still harassed by the cops over a few joints? we need to conserve that expenditure for real crime..!!

The law is written in a similar manner as SB420. The 1oz + 5x5 growing area is the state minimum. Counties and cities will be able to set higher limits, just not lower.

In addition to that standing medical marijuana laws still apply.

ford442 · Dec 19, 2009

well - that is cool.. but, still a strange kind of compromise.. is there a limit on how much tobacco i can buy at the store?

OregonMeds · Dec 19, 2009

Medshed said:
Tying back to the OP's point about the economy (although he had it all backwards), we are facing a situation where we can no longer afford prohibition. Politicians no longer have the luxury of spending money on foolish programs that are proven not to work. Combine that fact with Obama's "change" platform and this seems like the best opportunity for the government to change course while still saving face.

But the powers that be can't afford to stop it. The job losses and budget cuts etc would be huge in their mind. You are killing two giant industries at least, probably more.

The for profit prison industry would be in jeopardy too not just the DEA and these are very big powerful entities with money to throw around, and their own lobbyists to throw it.

FireCoral · Dec 19, 2009

Resinator420 said:
If they were to legilize marijuana in the US ( that is were im talking about) The government would be creating a new REGULATED market. This means that you would be able to go to the gas station, or coffea shop or whatever and buy pot like beer. WHO CAN COMPETE WITH PERFECTLY ROLLD UP DOOBYS OF THE BEST SHIT???? CAN YOU???...... didnt thiknk so.....anyways back on track.

Right now about 80% of the cash earned by businesses in the US from retail sales comes from money that came from marijuana in one way or another. legilize it and about 90% of that money would dissapear meaning stores would close down, go out of business, people would go into debt, CHAOS.

Marijuana creates one of the biggest unregulated markets in the country with some 55MILLION people involved including people liek me and you. In a sense marijuana feuls america everyday. what do marijuana dealers do with the money they make???? THEY BUY SHIT, RANDOM SHIT CARS, BOATS, HOUSES, STOCKS, INVESTMENT, AND EVERYDAY THINGS FOOD, CLOTHS, GAS, HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS!! take this money, or market away from america and I think 60% of businesses would SIVEARLY suffer or all together shutdown. Alot of people would go crazy.

Decriminalization is a drastically different approach. If it were ever to happen, then think about it "all the users of your site could continue what they do everyday" the US continues to flourish like it does today except on average 185,000 people every year would be spared from jail, and we would save enough money from not having to house, feed, and jail these "criminals" (pot smokers, sellers) to bring our country out of this recession. Not to mention the millions we would save every year going after "weed criminals"

There would be millions and billions of dollars to spair for our coutry to use for valuable resources such as healthcare, military, and police for the REAL DRUGS cocaine, heroin, ect.

SO VOTE FOR DECRIMINALIZATION

Yeah, I saw that documentary. The Union, I think. I don't agree with this perspective because it was said from a dealer's POV--and one who got busted at that. Very good documentary though, my fav of all the ones I've seen.

For those of you who have Netflix, look it up on there. It used to be on Instant Watch, so it might still be.

ETA: One thing this dealer fails to realize is the amount of US money going to other countries who smuggle the drugs in. If it were legal, that money would stay here.

Dan Kone · Dec 19, 2009

ford442 said:
well - that is cool.. but, still a strange kind of compromise.. is there a limit on how much tobacco i can buy at the store?

lol. That's actually a pretty solid point there. Hadn't thought of it that way.

The bill is pretty fucked up in some ways, no doubt. But there is no denying it's a huge step forward that could ultimately start a chain reaction of other states passing similar laws which could lead to national legalization.

I also don't like the 5x5 growing area part of the law or the fact that the bill is nonspecific when it comes to who decides who gets commercial growing permits and how many permits will be issued. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Dan Kone · Dec 19, 2009

OregonMeds said:
The for profit prison industry would be in jeopardy too not just the DEA and these are very big powerful entities with money to throw around, and their own lobbyists to throw it.

You hit the nail on the head there. Ask the people working on the tax and regulate bill and they will all tell you the biggest opposition to the bill and they all say the prison guards union.

Why would the prison guards union even care if marijuana was made legal? It still wouldn't be any more legal inside prisons. The only effect it would have on them is there would be less people going to jail.

If this law passes they are afraid the lack of people being incarcerated due to marijuana related arrests could possibly lead to cut backs in their hours/shifts. Of course they don't give a shit that these people don't belong in jail. They just see them as potential income...

ford442 · Dec 19, 2009

just remember - AB390 is already in the works for 2010 voting -

AB 390, as introduced, Ammiano. Marijuana Control, Regulation, and
Education Act.
Existing state law provides that every person who possesses,
sells, transports, or cultivates marijuana, concentrated cannabis, or
derivatives of marijuana, except as authorized by law, is guilty of
one or more crimes.
This bill would remove marijuana and its derivatives from existing
statutes defining and regulating controlled substances. It would
instead legalize the possession, sale, cultivation, and other conduct
relating to marijuana and its derivatives by persons 21 years of age
and older, except as specified. It would set up a wholesale and
retail marijuana sales regulation program, including special fees to
fund drug abuse prevention programs, as specified, to commence after
regulations concerning the program have been issued, and federal law
permits possession and sale consistent with the program. It would ban
local and state assistance in enforcing inconsistent federal and
other laws relating to marijuana, and would provide specified
infraction penalties for violations of these new marijuana laws and
regulations, as specified. It would make other conforming changes.

s0k · Dec 19, 2009

my personal opinion, there's too much money to be made on both sides of the line. i mean, supposedly everything confiscated gets stored for a period of time til it's destroyed. that is, o my knowledge, now i'm sure the government seizes billions worth of drugs, and it's just a little hard for me to believe that every single last bit would be destroyed. even just a small portion would be more than enough to line your pocket with. ok, i don't know where i was going with that, but if the government legalizes it, then they can't bust you for it. and i'm sure with the amount of people trying to grow their own shit, that's a huge chunk out of their so called government budget. pots like nothing compared to other drugs or even alcohol, they just need a reason to bust your ass. but then again, i read somewhere that oregon is trying to pass something where they would setup facilities and start a tax of $98 per ounce. correct me if i'm wrong, cuz i forgot where i was going with that now too.. purp kush! woo hoo!

OregonMeds · Dec 19, 2009

s0k said:
my personal opinion, there's too much money to be made on both sides of the line. i mean, supposedly everything confiscated gets stored for a period of time til it's destroyed. that is, o my knowledge, now i'm sure the government seizes billions worth of drugs, and it's just a little hard for me to believe that every single last bit would be destroyed. even just a small portion would be more than enough to line your pocket with. ok, i don't know where i was going with that, but if the government legalizes it, then they can't bust you for it. and i'm sure with the amount of people trying to grow their own shit, that's a huge chunk out of their so called government budget. pots like nothing compared to other drugs or even alcohol, they just need a reason to bust your ass. but then again, i read somewhere that oregon is trying to pass something where they would setup facilities and start a tax of $98 per ounce. correct me if i'm wrong, cuz i forgot where i was going with that now too.. purp kush! woo hoo!

I'm right there with you man, woo hoo we're baked.

Anyway yes you are talking about the Oregon cannabis tax act. It's hard to imagine such a ridiculous huge tax, but you're right it's around $100 every ounce. I still hope it passes for now at least. Holy shit that money will add up fast at that rate won't it?

ford442 · Dec 19, 2009

i think we have found that, like the crack/cocaine disparity, the pot laws originally targeted mexicans and now targets black americans.. let me find the statistic...

"Although the rate of marijuana use is only about 25 percent higher for African-Americans than for whites, blacks are three times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession as whites."

Katatawnic · Dec 19, 2009

ford442 said:
i don't understand...? why don't you guys just support AB390?? it is a MUCH better proposal than this huge compromise of having 28 grams and 5 feet of garden area..

I'm honestly confused as to which is which... not only due to lack of reading up on them enough (I've read some, but not in depth enough to know 100% what they're proposing), but although they're obviously different there's enough similarity between the two to confuse one for the other. (Especially when one hasn't read up on them enough. Guilty! :lol:

)

OregonMeds said:
I'm starting to get a sense from watching the news that the feds are welcoming medical mj all of the sudden in response to the problem with mexican gangs and the killings and stuff. Recently I saw a quote from one mexican drug dealing source which said their profits were down 40% since medical came on strong in some places.

It's the same thing that stopped alcohol prohibition. It wasn't how unjust it was that made it legal again it was the insane amounts of violence and killing which forced their hand imho.

Aside from saving vast amounts of money I couldn't afford to spend, this is exactly what made me decide to start growing my own MMJ... having to deal with the gang bangers in order to obtain my medicine (as well as my "booze" - I hate drinking!). I live in the middle of this crap as it is, but having to deal with it directly was beyond disconcerting. There are no dispensaries in my county, or even a decent enough driving distance from me, so I was stuck with the gang bangers.

I'm in danger of violence if my neighborhood were to know that I've got a grow set up in my home (solely due to MJ prohibition and all the violence that it's created!), but I'm "paranoid" enough to keep my ass covered in that arena.

I'm no longer in danger of the violence in which I had to put myself in order to obtain my MMJ.

The violence, however, doesn't appear to have been enough to put a stop to MJ prohibition in the past, though I'm certainly hoping that's had a hand in even the small amount of progress made in ending this once and for all. I also hope that our votes do count this year as they did in 1996... with the results of the vote being accepted much sooner this time around!

zelfna90 said:
I dont beleive is should be legalized either but only for Medical Purposes

Why, because already-legal alcohol is so much better for recreational use? :confused:

Kushkittens said:
It really doesnt matter if u want it to or not. Were talking huge profit here if its legalized, more studies, more innovations. its all around better to legalize it. Then all these highschool kids wont think its so cool nd giving weed a bad name.

I still recall an interview with Famke Janssen on one of the late night talk shows (Conan, if I recall correctly) in 2003/2004. In response to joking remarks and questions about pot being legal in her country, she said simply that it's not a big deal at all where she comes from, because it's something that's just always there and there's no "Reefer Madness" taboo placed on it.

We only covet what we (are told) cannot have.

ford442 said:
yep - i have often thought that the prohibition creates an atmosphere where kids want to try drugs.. the propaganda hypes up the idea - "don't press the colorful clown shaped button!! don't do it ever - it is right there in front of you, but it is bad!" now - who are today's kids going to listen to? the cops? the government? who even presented the idea to them in the first place that it was an option for them?

Gee, sounds a lot like a Bible story I've read... and who presented the idea to them [Adam & Eve] in the first place that it [the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge] was an option for them? "See that? It doesn't matter how enticing it may look. It's bad, and you are not to touch it, ever!" :lol:

DazedNBlazed said:
I would like to see it legalized, but at the same time, I started smoking and shit when it was illegal. It would probably be a lot less appealing to people if it was regulated by the government.

Unless you're quite elderly, it's pretty much a given that it was illegal when you started smoking.

trance said:
Governments, like some people have said have been banging on about how dangerous canabis is for many years. Some of them are now in a position where they are forced to admit they were wrong. It will be a bitter pill to swallow!

Not if they swallow my pill... THC pill, that is. :bigjoint:

FireCoral said:
ETA: One thing this dealer fails to realize is the amount of US money going to other countries who smuggle the drugs in. If it were legal, that money would stay here.

I highly doubt a dealer who is so concerned about losing his personal riches when pot is (re)legalized would be very concerned as to which country would benefit from the MJ profits.

Dan Kone said:
I also don't like the 5x5 growing area part of the law or the fact that the bill is nonspecific when it comes to who decides who gets commercial growing permits and how many permits will be issued. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I don't like it either, but it's still a hell of a lot better deal than what we've got now. (MMJ status aside, which I have; and though I'm not fortunate that I need it, I know I'm fortunate to have it.)

What I emphasized in red... 'nuff said! :hump:

OregonMeds said:
Anyway yes you are talking about the Oregon cannabis tax act. It's hard to imagine such a ridiculous huge tax, but you're right it's around $100 every ounce. I still hope it passes for now at least. Holy shit that money will add up fast at that rate won't it?

I don't know the percentages (and I should!), but I doubt that's much, if any, worse than cigarette taxes. Not that I like such high taxes, but I've been willing to spend them on cigarettes, so I'd indeed be willing to spend them on MJ... lesser of two evils!

And it would indeed add up, and fast! Between the money gained in income/taxes and what would not be spent anymore in the court/legal systems and the "war on drugs"... our budget would see a noticeable upswing!

Katatawnic · Dec 19, 2009

ford442 said:
i think we have found that, like the crack/cocaine disparity, the pot laws originally targeted mexicans and now targets black americans.. let me find the statistic...

"Although the rate of marijuana use is only about 25 percent higher for African-Americans than for whites, blacks are three times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession as whites."

Oh yes, if you Google the history of what led to the 1937 MJ Tax Act, you'll find very interesting racist "reasoning" and it was part of the "Reefer Madness" hype. Granted, the movie had all white characters, but I'm talking about the hype in general.

Homicidal mania... I still laugh my ass off at that one! :lol:

I have a lovely case of bipolar disorder, and pot will exponentially decrease (if not even completely stop in its tracks) my manias in moments. I'm only prone to the "homicidal" portion of mania without MMJ.

(OK, I drifted from the racist aspect of the Reefer Madness hype, but the term "homicidal mania" was used in the movie, so that's where my mind went next. lol)

ford442 · Dec 19, 2009

AB390 is the bill introduced by our Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco)

http://www.mpp.org/states/california/information-about-ab-390.html

i guess it limits to 10 mature plants.. but, that is enough for me i think unless i decided to become a commercial producer..

the other is called Tax Cannabis 2010 and is a voter initiative which already has the signatures to go on the ballot..

http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/about

"(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands."

five feet by five feet square per residence is pretty small.. i could probably plant more tobacco than that and have enough to poison a horse...

FireCoral · Dec 20, 2009

Katatawnic said:
I highly doubt a dealer who is so concerned about losing his personal riches when pot is (re)legalized would be very concerned as to which country would benefit from the MJ profits.

Excellent point. I guess this is just one of those which-side-of-the-fence sort of situations. Personally, if decriminalizing it meant I could grow my own and start a bakery, I'd be totally down for it. I love to cook, and I love weed. So this is essentially my dream job.

FireCoral · Dec 20, 2009

ford442 said:
(ii) Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property

Wow. If this bill is passed, the next time you rent an apartment, you may have to pay a Cultivation Deposit--kinda like a pet deposit--just in case your set up somehow causes further damage than normal wear and tear. Haha! Ironically, this amuses me.

:idea:

Holy crap! Here's a good idea for anyone who leases out their property:

Advertise yourself as a marijuana-friendly landlord and rent out apartments that are already equipped with grow closets!! Yes! I'm moving to Cali if this is approved and buying an apartment building!

Katatawnic · Dec 20, 2009

ford442 said:
AB390 is the bill introduced by our Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco)
http://www.mpp.org/states/california/information-about-ab-390.html
[....]
the other is called Tax Cannabis 2010 and is a voter initiative which already has the signatures to go on the ballot..
http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/about

[....]

five feet by five feet square per residence is pretty small.. i could probably plant more tobacco than that and have enough to poison a horse...

Thank you for the info, Ford!

I can't kiss your ass again (rep LOL) till I spread around more :roll:

but I give it to you here and now anyway! :mrgreen:

My total grow space (veg & bloom both) totals just about 5'x5'. Even with this, I can't fit six 3 gallon pots into my flowering tent (2'x4') without crowding them more than I like... six mature plants being "technically" my medical status growing limit. Granted, this is enough to allow me to grow my 8 oz. dry amount allowed at a time (and then some), but that just goes to show how stupid it is to say that one can legally possess one ounce (if not medical status) and have a 5'x5' grow space... even a crappy grower would go over the 1 oz. limit in one grow! :lol:

My point to the ramble... so a 5'x5' grow space is supposed to yield 1 oz. according to the legalization/decriminalization, but when there's a pot "bust" twenty-five tiny little cuttings that aren't even rooted and officially clones yet will result in felony charges claiming that the grower would have made hundreds of thousands of dollars. :lol:

(Pardon me if I'm not coherent today... it's been one of those "stuck in bed and medicated 'round the clock" weeks. 'Nuff said? LOL)

FireCoral said:
Personally, if decriminalizing it meant I could grow my own and start a bakery, I'd be totally down for it. I love to cook, and I love weed. So this is essentially my dream job.

That'd be my dream job too, if I could handle baking often! :lol:

My canna-oil has been highly praised though, so I could always make lots of that (much easier on my body than baking) and sell it to the bakeries! :bigjoint:

Words can't describe how wonderful it would feel to be able to supplement my disability (or even be able to be rid of it altogether; one can dream! lol) and finally feel like I'm contributing more to the household than almost the total of the utility payments!

Ah, yes... one can dream... :hump:

FireCoral said:
Wow. If this bill is passed, the next time you rent an apartment, you may have to pay a Cultivation Deposit--kinda like a pet deposit--just in case your set up somehow causes further damage than normal wear and tear. Haha! Ironically, this amuses me.

Holy crap! Here's a good idea for anyone who leases out their property:

Advertise yourself as a marijuana-friendly landlord and rent out apartments that are already equipped with grow closets!! Yes! I'm moving to Cali if this is approved and buying an apartment building!

I'd rent from that landlord in a heartbeat! :hump:

I've got two landlords: brothers I'll call S and F. So, I've got medical status in my state, both have known this since we moved in here two and a half years ago, and S knew that I've been growing. Apparently F didn't (yeah, great communication between brothers who do all of their business together, eh?! lol), and freaked out about it. Why? Because even though "I'm legal to grow" (his words), he's scared that the cops are going to be watching me like a hawk and then accusing him and me of being in kahootz selling together... as in a huge grow/deal op! LMAO!!! Our subdivision's handyman (as well as another medical grower) and S finally got F to calm down and listen to the handyman's repetition of the laws I'd just (yet again) explained to F, and now I'm allowed to grow my medicine here again. Let me tell you, it was a tremendous PITA, not to mention ridiculous reasoning! I can't wait till we're able to buy our own place (we're really hoping it'll be by this summer!), and be done with landlords altogether! :evil:

ford442 · Dec 20, 2009

ya - how in the world does 5'x5' = 28grams? they should say we get one plant, but we can't water it and it can't be in direct sun....

lol...

Do Not Vote For Legalization Or You Are Stupid

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