Do I flip or not yet?

It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone.I am just after a bit of advice on when to flip my first grow.

I don't have loads of space, but reading on the internet the comments vary from hardly any stretch to 2-3x stretch after flip, so I am unsure when to pull the trigger. I don't want to run out of space, but I also want to use what little I have as efficiently as possible. I plan on scrogging for as long as I can while the stretch happens, then leave it to grow upwards.

Growing a bulldog seeds skunk #1 x northern lights in verve compost. Cabinet is 28" x 15" x 32". Currently just finished the 5th week of veg, the plant is 48 days total since breaking surface. Growing under 5x 23w 1450 lumen 6500k CFL's ,1x23w 1500L 2700k & 1x30w 1900L 2700k CFL. I added the 2700's last week to up the lumens, as I have no more 6500k bulbs, and read it would do no real harm to mix spectrums slightly.

As you can see from the pics I am just about at 50% of the screen. I am full depth and am slowly (this is not a fast growing plant compared to other peoples, but I don't mind) going sideways. The canopy is just below halfway up the cabinet, so I have roughly (not measured exactly) 14" of height left to move the lights up, canopy is 7" above soil level.

I transplanted 2 weeks ago into her final pot and also removed some of the lower leaves below the canopy that were growing into each other and not getting any real light, so she has not had any recent stress.

Would you flip yet, or give it a while longer, or have I arsed it up and should have flipped a week ago?


photo 1.JPG photo 2.JPG photo 3.JPG photo 4.JPG
 
tropicalcannabispatient

tropicalcannabispatient

Well-Known Member
It's not oregano said:
Hello everyone.I am just after a bit of advice on when to flip my first grow.

I don't have loads of space, but reading on the internet the comments vary from hardly any stretch to 2-3x stretch after flip, so I am unsure when to pull the trigger. I don't want to run out of space, but I also want to use what little I have as efficiently as possible. I plan on scrogging for as long as I can while the stretch happens, then leave it to grow upwards.

Growing a bulldog seeds skunk #1 x northern lights in verve compost. Cabinet is 28" x 15" x 32". Currently just finished the 5th week of veg, the plant is 48 days total since breaking surface. Growing under 5x 23w 1450 lumen 6500k CFL's ,1x23w 1500L 2700k & 1x30w 1900L 2700k CFL. I added the 2700's last week to up the lumens, as I have no more 6500k bulbs, and read it would do no real harm to mix spectrums slightly.

As you can see from the pics I am just about at 50% of the screen. I am full depth and am slowly (this is not a fast growing plant compared to other peoples, but I don't mind) going sideways. The canopy is just below halfway up the cabinet, so I have roughly (not measured exactly) 14" of height left to move the lights up, canopy is 7" above soil level.

I transplanted 2 weeks ago into her final pot and also removed some of the lower leaves below the canopy that were growing into each other and not getting any real light, so she has not had any recent stress.

Would you flip yet, or give it a while longer, or have I arsed it up and should have flipped a week ago?


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I will flip now and pinch and bend branches during the stretch. After 2 weeks of stretch leave alone. Good luck
 
stoned_chess

stoned_chess

Member
Growing a bulldog seeds skunk #1 x northern lights in verve compost. Cabinet is 28" x 15" x 32". Currently just finished the 5th week of veg, the plant is 48 days total since breaking surface. Growing under 5x 23w 1450 lumen 6500k CFL's ,1x23w 1500L 2700k & 1x30w 1900L 2700k CFL. I added the 2700's last week to up the lumens, as I have no more 6500k bulbs, and read it would do no real harm to mix spectrums slightly.

View attachment 3540223 View attachment 3540224 View attachment 3540225 View attachment 3540226
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ACTUALLY, you want to mix spectrums as much as possible (to an extent). It is true that higher frequencies (cool colors) are more stimulant to the vegetative process, and lower frequency light (warm spectrum) is most beneficial when flowering. Seedlings/plants in early veg can die if they don't get a high enough percentage of blue light, and a lack of red light can seriously hamper your flowering process. However, at all points during a plant's life, it's best to have both spectrums present to best mimic the true full-spectrum light that comes from the sun that plants have thrived upon for millinea. But for veg lean cool, flower lean warm.

Your plant looks healthy, looks like you're scrogging properly. CFL works OK for veg growth (which may explain the slow growth... I started mine under CFL, didn't see any astounding growing til I got my 300w LED panel) but I would be a little apprehensive about trying to flower under just CFL. For one, CFL creates TONS more heat than LED. Surprising that your leaves aren't scorched just being so close to them. With alternative light sources that are more efficient you can get more lumens into your plant by having the lights close without having to worry much about heat.

That said, allow me to add that you CAN pull off this grow with what you've got, you just probably won't get jaw-dropping results with it. Maybe look into building COB for your next grow. CFL make great augmentory lights, but they get a bit hot for how much light they put out when they're all you're using.

You're doing great for a small grow, it's a good start. I'm thinking maybe a bigger grow box and some efficient lighting (when you can do all that) are good ideas if you desire a bigger yield. But above all, be proud of your lady and HAVE FUN nurturing her and helping her thrive. Plants pick up on your energy more than you might think ;)
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice everyone, I bit the bullet and flipped her. I would rather risk losing a bit of yield than cause myself problems with trying to get a 3 foot plant into a 2 foot area!!
If it turns out I could have waited an extra week, it's no biggy, I still have another 4 seeds left, so I do as all novices should do and learn as much as I can from each grow and try and improve on the last one.

Stoned Chess - thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I chose cfl as they were relatively cheap, I had some already, and I could rig up a stealth cab with them for very little cost using items I already had around the house. And it IS a stealth cab - there are 4 people in the house and only 2 of us know about it, the others are blissfully unaware still. I am not after massive yield, basically I am growing to try and help my wife with the pain she gets from multiple sclerosis. My aims at the beginning were to try and get something for her to smoke / eat without killing the plant, getting arrested or setting something on fire!

If it helps her, and once the kids move out (hopefully in the next couple of years,…go on, sod off, I want a pool table upstairs) then a larger grow area will probably happen. As for led - it IS something I have been reading up on, and like the looks of, but I have very few tools and very little electrical experience, so it might be better to buy a cheaper led first and see how it works before buying a soldering iron etc. I was serious about the fire thing, buying a ready built one might help me sleep at night, rather than waking up every half hour to sniff the air for smoke, and my wife would be happier as well!
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
It would be nice to wait longer to use up more of that big pot of dirt and the horizontal space on that screen. If you can get the lights up higher, or rebuild the box, or take it out and put it somewhere it would be nice. Lookin good so far though.
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
I know what you are saying Alienwidow and it makes sense to use as much of the screen as I can, but as I am still in the dark as to how it will go, I am going to err on the side of caution this time. Next time will be the time I learn from my mistakes, this time is more for experience to be truthful. I honestly thought I would have killed her by now, our house is usually a place where potted plants go to die, so any yield will be a bonus.
As my post above, I would love to adapt the box, but that might let my kids know what I am doing. I trust them with my life, but if they don't know they can't let something slip.
Here are a couple of older pics of my cab to show what I am working with - the screen is about an inch or so above the top of the handle of the cupboard next to it. Take off 2" for the filter box at the top, and then say 4" for the wood and bulbs and I have about 14" inches of upwards movement left.photo 2.JPG photo 3.JPG
 
Bbcchance

Bbcchance

Well-Known Member
I've read you can help slow the stretch a bit by keeping your low temps closer to your high temps during flower as well, you have to have some temp drop, but if you can keep it around 5-8° the plants don't stretch as much, so far it has worked for my grow, I'm doing pineapple chunk in a small space (5' of headroom-lights=4') I flipped at 13" tall and now at day 22 of flower I'm only at about 22" tall, I also topped twice in veg so I'm around 22" wide as well, not sure if it's because of temp control or training, or just raw luck, but it's holding true to the reading material
 
P

peteski72

Active Member
It's not oregano said:
Hello everyone.I am just after a bit of advice on when to flip my first grow.

I don't have loads of space, but reading on the internet the comments vary from hardly any stretch to 2-3x stretch after flip, so I am unsure when to pull the trigger. I don't want to run out of space, but I also want to use what little I have as efficiently as possible. I plan on scrogging for as long as I can while the stretch happens, then leave it to grow upwards.

Growing a bulldog seeds skunk #1 x northern lights in verve compost. Cabinet is 28" x 15" x 32". Currently just finished the 5th week of veg, the plant is 48 days total since breaking surface. Growing under 5x 23w 1450 lumen 6500k CFL's ,1x23w 1500L 2700k & 1x30w 1900L 2700k CFL. I added the 2700's last week to up the lumens, as I have no more 6500k bulbs, and read it would do no real harm to mix spectrums slightly.

As you can see from the pics I am just about at 50% of the screen. I am full depth and am slowly (this is not a fast growing plant compared to other peoples, but I don't mind) going sideways. The canopy is just below halfway up the cabinet, so I have roughly (not measured exactly) 14" of height left to move the lights up, canopy is 7" above soil level.

I transplanted 2 weeks ago into her final pot and also removed some of the lower leaves below the canopy that were growing into each other and not getting any real light, so she has not had any recent stress.

Would you flip yet, or give it a while longer, or have I arsed it up and should have flipped a week ago?


View attachment 3540223 View attachment 3540224 View attachment 3540225 View attachment 3540226
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It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
Green plastic 2" spacing garden fencing that had been in my garage for years. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I am pretty certain I have seen similar in the DIY chains and also places like wilko / poundshops in summertime.
I just made a basic frame from thin wood I had and held it in place with electric cable clips
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
It's not oregano said:
Would you flip yet, or give it a while longer, or have I arsed it up and should have flipped a week ago?
Click to expand...
Well you definitely haven't arsed it up ;)

AFAIK stretch actually does depend alot on the strain - the sativas tend to stretch more whils tthe indicas tend to stretch less.
Yours seems to be more on the indica side: Northern Lights=indica, Skunk also has indica in it, plus in your individual case the leaf form is more indica too, and it has been growing slowly. So your chances of not having an exorbitant stretch are pretty good :)

Just a thought, far be it from me to handle the light switch though ;)
cheers!
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
Thought I would give an update. She is still healthy, and has responded well to the light change as far as I can tell with my inexperienced eyes.. It might also help someone who googles Northern Lights and CFL or tubular heaters in the future. She is now under 5x 30w 2700k 1900 lumen & 1x 23w 6500k 1450 lumen bulbs. Temps about 28.5c day and 19 night. I don't want to add another 30w bulb as it then takes daytime temps up into the 30's.

I flipped the lights on the evening of wed 11th nov and these pics were taken at lights on last night, so 2 weeks after the flip. Pistils showed 7 days after the flip. I had to remove the scrog screen and move the pot at one point to get the heater in, but if you look at the before and after pic you can see there was only about 4-5" of horizontal growth i.e about 2 squares worth and a bit of vertical - I am now letting her grow upwards. I could have vegged for longer, but it's not the end of the world if I have a smaller plant. At least she is still alive, which is more than I expected when I started. Note that I mentioned in a post above that I have always had very slow growth, whether that is down to my inexperience, genetics or conditions I don't know, so don't sue me if your plant stretches more!

Also, for anyone who googles, I had a 60w tubular heater in the cabinet. It could help with keeping temperatures at a min of 19c during lights off when it was mild outside, say a min of 12c (cab is in a uninsulated concrete garage), but it can't cope when it gets any colder. Even on constantly it only raised temps by about 7 or 8c, and I am not extracting loads of air per minute and I am in a cab that is only about 7.5 cubic ft. We had a cold snap and the garage dropped to 5c one day and the cab was only 12c. I panicked like a good un, but I managed to find a mini 700w oil filled rad at Dunelm mill for £20 which was only about 6" wide, 12" deep/long and 16" high and whacked that in instead. A bit tight but it went in with a bit of intake pipe alteration!

I use an STC1000 thermostat that I wired up with a double plug socket (purely because I had a spare one) to control the heater originally. Because I am a tight arse northerner I plugged a mechanical timer into the spare socket, set it to midnight, and that way I can tell when the STC makes the socket live during lights out and the new heater comes on. If the socket is live the timer moves, if dead it stays as it is. So far it has moved to about 02.30 in a total of 24 hours of lights off, so it is using about .875 kw per day, and temps are kept at 19 min easily, even with it being about 8c in the garage.

I don't know what I was thinking in an earlier post, but I measured and I have got 10" of upwards light movement left in the cab. I may have to do a bit of bending near the end of the grow, I will wait and see what happens before I panic about it.

I also removed the CFL on the far left and put it on the flexy fitting you can see on the 'before' pic last night. It is a bit tight in there as the 30w 2700k bulbs are longer than the 23w 6500k ones I used in veg, but no bulbs touch so I will see how it goes. At least that way that light is a lot nearer the centre of the canopy, so should actually be of some use.

Hopefully this might help someone, if not at least you can look at some crappy pics!

flip and 2 weeks later copy.jpg photo 1.JPG photo 5.JPG
 
Cl@rksville

Cl@rksville

Well-Known Member
It's not oregano said:
Thought I would give an update. She is still healthy, and has responded well to the light change as far as I can tell with my inexperienced eyes..
Click to expand...
Wow its great isn't it, you have learned so much by doing it in a real DIY manner and you're obviously a bright chap, really chuffed for you and can't wait to hear how the missus reacts to the resulting smoke, so genuinely really well done sir.
MS or any debilitating illness is the pits and please give her my kindest regards she sounds like a good girl.

You will probably need that 10" Orinoco because she is gonna grow a tad more I'd say, maybe not 10" but who knows?

I am so pleased its on a roll just go easy and keep checking everything, especially your lights out RH% in such a small space.
The next problem for you is possibly the SK#1 been dominant and proper stinking your garage out, especially if its from a good pheno... I like low RH% and plenty of air flowing with SK#1 types as it can become a bit earthy in my ex?

If you could, why not fit a new light canopy with say 1 or 2 300w CFL's or HID in it on top of these drawers? Keep it disguised as a random square of wood just resting on top, like a fish tank hood type thing? You could jigsaw a nice hole out of the top of the drawers and gain a bit of height and do away with the bulbs everywhere, maybe use some for side lighting etc? My mate does it and moves the plant down on a platform/base not the light up o_O

Maybe you could fit a tiny rhino 100mm carbon inside next grow with a fan pulling fresh air through and put mylar round the inside?

Overall my friend that is a proper job well done and I agree maybe you could have vegged a few more days but its best to get a handle on it all first... Awesome inspiration for any new grower and stealth cabinet growers! Any idiot like myself can pot in big coco, drip feed A/B 3 times a day until there 30 inch and blast them with 1000w sq/mt to get 5 zips a plant! That what you're doing is proper growing and I love it so much I haven't even said fuck once in like 5 minutes ;)
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
It's not oregano said:
if you look at the before and after pic you can see there was only about 4-5" of horizontal growth i.e about 2 squares worth and a bit of vertical - I am now letting her grow upwards. I could have vegged for longer, but it's not the end of the world if I have a smaller plant. At least she is still alive, which is more than I expected when I started. Note that I mentioned in a post above that I have always had very slow growth, whether that is down to my inexperience, genetics or conditions I don't know, so don't sue me if your plant stretches more!
Click to expand...
Sweet, thanks so much for the update!

Sure, you could have vegged longer as it turns out, but now you know that with this strain in your specific setup :)
I read somewhere that you're not a real scrogger anyway before you have seen a screen not fill up AND a screen be overpacked, and have problem-solved both cases ;)

Also, looking at that heater, I feel it's actually a good thing the screen didn't fill up on that side - so you have avoided any problems that could have arisen from buds growing right above your heat source :)

Maybe it's just because I have recently discovered my love of (gentle!) defoliation, but personally I'd remove some of the bigger fan leaves that are shading some of the buds. This could also help her focus on developing the parts she already has, as opposed to putting more energy into vertical growth?

Looking really good, she is!
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
Thanks both of you, it is always nice when others say you are doing things right. Also some good tips from both of you.

Cl@rksville - altering the lights and filtration is my next planned improvement if all works out, and going upwards is the only option I really have at the moment. Moving the base and not the lights is a good idea. I know my cab is a proper DIY, ghetto, held together with duct tape sort of thing, as I didn't want to splash too much cash until I knew I could keep a plant full term! I also kind of like doing things myself and even though I don't have any particular skills it seems to work. And as you say, I am learning loads from growing this way, as well as all the info I am getting on here.

Calliandra - That was my thought about the heater as well. If she had grown wider I would have had to make some sort of external box to put it in and draw my air through there and into the cab, but I was really lucky in that respect. Big is not always best!

If anyone is interested, I have an external 5" pc server fan on top of the cabinet that is rated at 150 cfm, this is sat over a jigsawed out hole. Internally I got a 2" deep A4'ish sized box and cut a large rectangle out of the front and back, put wire mesh over the holes and then 2 layers of oven hood charcoal filter top and bottom. The remaining space was then filled with a mix of activated carbon pellets I got from my local hydro shop ( 1kilo for £3.70 - bargain!!) and some smaller pellets I took out of some respirator mask cartridges we had at work for some reason. Stuck this to the top of the cab underneath the fan hole with double sided tape, and taped all the joints of the box and where it joined the roof with shitloads of tape so there was no chance of air bypassing the filter. I love duct and parcel tape!! This means the fan is pulling air through quite a large surface area that is also about 1.5" deep with carbon, so hopefully it should keep the smell to a minimum. The pc fan has lost a lot of cfm with the filter in place, but it still comes out with a force you can feel with your hand, but as my cab is only small there is still enough of an air change to keep temps down and replace the air regularly. I covered the fan with 2 long rectangular boxes joined together, to make a long exhaust on top of the cab and the cupboard next to it, and put a baffle in the exhaust made from card, and this made the noise of the fan and moving air virtually silent. I then put the wooden flooring in front of the boxes to hide everything even more, but even if not there all you would see is two boxes on top of the cupboards / chest of drawers.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
It's not oregano said:
Thought I would give an update. She is still healthy, and has responded well to the light change as far as I can tell with my inexperienced eyes.. It might also help someone who googles Northern Lights and CFL or tubular heaters in the future. She is now under 5x 30w 2700k 1900 lumen & 1x 23w 6500k 1450 lumen bulbs. Temps about 28.5c day and 19 night. I don't want to add another 30w bulb as it then takes daytime temps up into the 30's.

I flipped the lights on the evening of wed 11th nov and these pics were taken at lights on last night, so 2 weeks after the flip. Pistils showed 7 days after the flip. I had to remove the scrog screen and move the pot at one point to get the heater in, but if you look at the before and after pic you can see there was only about 4-5" of horizontal growth i.e about 2 squares worth and a bit of vertical - I am now letting her grow upwards. I could have vegged for longer, but it's not the end of the world if I have a smaller plant. At least she is still alive, which is more than I expected when I started. Note that I mentioned in a post above that I have always had very slow growth, whether that is down to my inexperience, genetics or conditions I don't know, so don't sue me if your plant stretches more!

Also, for anyone who googles, I had a 60w tubular heater in the cabinet. It could help with keeping temperatures at a min of 19c during lights off when it was mild outside, say a min of 12c (cab is in a uninsulated concrete garage), but it can't cope when it gets any colder. Even on constantly it only raised temps by about 7 or 8c, and I am not extracting loads of air per minute and I am in a cab that is only about 7.5 cubic ft. We had a cold snap and the garage dropped to 5c one day and the cab was only 12c. I panicked like a good un, but I managed to find a mini 700w oil filled rad at Dunelm mill for £20 which was only about 6" wide, 12" deep/long and 16" high and whacked that in instead. A bit tight but it went in with a bit of intake pipe alteration!

I use an STC1000 thermostat that I wired up with a double plug socket (purely because I had a spare one) to control the heater originally. Because I am a tight arse northerner I plugged a mechanical timer into the spare socket, set it to midnight, and that way I can tell when the STC makes the socket live during lights out and the new heater comes on. If the socket is live the timer moves, if dead it stays as it is. So far it has moved to about 02.30 in a total of 24 hours of lights off, so it is using about .875 kw per day, and temps are kept at 19 min easily, even with it being about 8c in the garage.

I don't know what I was thinking in an earlier post, but I measured and I have got 10" of upwards light movement left in the cab. I may have to do a bit of bending near the end of the grow, I will wait and see what happens before I panic about it.

I also removed the CFL on the far left and put it on the flexy fitting you can see on the 'before' pic last night. It is a bit tight in there as the 30w 2700k bulbs are longer than the 23w 6500k ones I used in veg, but no bulbs touch so I will see how it goes. At least that way that light is a lot nearer the centre of the canopy, so should actually be of some use.

Hopefully this might help someone, if not at least you can look at some crappy pics!

View attachment 3551171 View attachment 3551172 View attachment 3551173
Click to expand...
Ya, just like that. Those pictures are just like what i was thinking. Keep it going, lots of screen still to fill. Hows the temps?
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
Alienwidow said:
Ya, just like that. Those pictures are just like what i was thinking. Keep it going, lots of screen still to fill. Hows the temps?
Click to expand...
28.5 day and 19 (with the heater on) at night, in a garage that is around 8c max, so pretty similar to what I have been at all grow. RH is 50 and I have just put a large bag of silica gel in the top of the cab to see if I can get it nearer 40. It might work!
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
I'm thinking of setting up a small veg shelf - the description of your vent system is inspiring - thanks!
Click to expand...
I have been helped so much by the people on this forum, both personally with their comments and encouragement, and also by just reading as many posts as I can, if my description inspires or helps anyone else I am happy I can give something back.
Less than a year ago I had never even smelt someone smoking MJ. I was a total and utter innocent newby. I still have a LOT to learn before I can finish this grow, (I have never even rolled a joint, so that needs youtubing as well). But now, thanks to this site, i have enough knowledge to be growing a plant. If I can get this far, anyone can, but if I can help them then even better.
 
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