DIY LED Grow Light Vero 18 (Economy light)

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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The risk of fan failure is why I don't like artic 11 (or other purely active heatsinks) in general. Safety is a major concern. You can easily dissipate 80W through an artic 11, but if the fans go out, it will be blistering hot.

When I run my 80W vero 18 killers without a fan, it gets hot, but not enough to seriously damage the leds and it's only uncomfortable to the touch. In fact, I could probably run without a fan for a considerably long time without risk. They're designed to have an optional fan.

Active heatsink designs should be designed in such a way where fan failure will not burn down your home. (I think your pepper bars look great btw)

epicfail said:
I'm using a 60w 12v led driver (for signs) as a power supply to run 4x 3000 rpm fans, it also powers my two 5 volt regulated PWM circuits I made to control the speed of the 4-wire fans. I originally used a wall wart to power the fan on a pc heatsink with one CXA3070 at 1.4 amps. I came home from work and the PSU had died and the heatsink was pretty hot. It had been off for a while I'm guessing but when I pointed my IR thermometer in between the fins of the heatsink it was still under 50c. I wont trust a cheap power supply again, buy a good one its only money.
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epicfail

epicfail

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
The risk of fan failure is why I don't like artic 11 (or other purely active heatsinks) in general. Safety is a major concern. You can easily dissipate 80W through an artic 11, but if the fans go out, it will be blistering hot.

When I run my 80W vero 18 killers without a fan, it gets hot, but not enough to seriously damage the leds and it's only uncomfortable to the touch. In fact, I could probably run without a fan for a considerably long time without risk. They're designed to have an optional fan.

Active heatsink designs should be designed in such a way where fan failure will not burn down your home. (I think your pepper bars look great btw)
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I recently had to open a a51 panel and inside I noticed that there are 4 drivers. Two of the drivers run the red and two run the whites. All 4 drivers also seem to have dual output with a 12v line for the fans. Each fan is split and hooked up to one red and one white driver so that both fans are connected to 2 drivers at the same time. Im guessing it is wired like this so that if you turn on only the red or the white both fans will still come on. Wouldn't this also mean that if one driver fails the fan would still work.

Seeing this makes me wonder, couldn't one could just run two 12v power supplies connected to the fan lines so if one fails the other will keep them going?

I don't know enough about electricity to know if this will work or not. For all I know they could both blowup shooting little leprechaun babies everywhere and that is not something I am prepared for.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Even with redundant power supplies, it's still possible something could jam the propellers, or the bearings could fail.. All moving parts will eventually fail.

It is possible to have 2 perfectly equal voltage supplies in parallel , yes, but if one stopped working, the other would be supplying both fans, which might overload it considering it was designed with 2 supplies. I guess overloading is better than overheating in that case maybe. You'd also have to worry about backflow maybe. For your heatsinks, i don't think it really matters. The backup is that it doesn't burn anyawy even with the fans out.

epicfail said:
I recently had to open a a51 panel and inside I noticed that there are 4 drivers. Two of the drivers run the red and two run the whites. All 4 drivers also seem to have dual output with a 12v line for the fans. Each fan is split and hooked up to one red and one white driver so that both fans are connected to 2 drivers at the same time. Im guessing it is wired like this so that if you turn on only the red or the white both fans will still come on. Wouldn't this also mean that if one driver fails the fan would still work.

Seeing this makes me wonder, couldn't one could just run two 12v power supplies connected to the fan lines so if one fails the other will keep them going?

I don't know enough about electricity to know if this will work or not. For all I know they could both blowup shooting little leprechaun babies everywhere and that is not something I am prepared for.
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epicfail

epicfail

Well-Known Member
Ya, Thats kinda why I went with my heatsinks. They can definitely handle the heat a lot better than a pc heatsink incase of fan failure and with the overkill fans I'm running they run supercool. I did plan on adding more COBs down the road but for the space they are in right now I don't think that will be necessary. I want to add some 730nm for lights out, maybe a 1 watter per sink driven softly I just don't know what ones to get.
 
Dloomis514

Dloomis514

Well-Known Member
epicfail said:
Ya, Thats kinda why I went with my heatsinks. They can definitely handle the heat a lot better than a pc heatsink incase of fan failure and with the overkill fans I'm running they run supercool. I did plan on adding more COBs down the road but for the space they are in right now I don't think that will be necessary. I want to add some 730nm for lights out, maybe a 1 watter per sink driven softly I just don't know what ones to get.
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steves LEDs dot com has the 730s, about $0 when i bought them
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
The risk of fan failure is why I don't like artic 11 (or other purely active heatsinks) in general. Safety is a major concern. You can easily dissipate 80W through an artic 11, but if the fans go out, it will be blistering hot.

When I run my 80W vero 18 killers without a fan, it gets hot, but not enough to seriously damage the leds and it's only uncomfortable to the touch. In fact, I could probably run without a fan for a considerably long time without risk. They're designed to have an optional fan.

Active heatsink designs should be designed in such a way where fan failure will not burn down your home. (I think your pepper bars look great btw)
Click to expand...

I thought about this too and a was a big proponent of passive cooling..............but was corrected by EH that even cheap modern computer fans have around .1% failure rate. The driver has a way higher chance of burning up.

the pros($$$) outweigh the cons with active cooling in builds imo
 
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
Mohican said:
Look at those flowers! They are hulking out! The diversity of appearance is so cool. A solid carpet of flowers!!!

When are you coming down to visit?
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Thanks MO! :-) I am not sure. I have guests this week. been so dang busy. Maybe the weekend of the first?? I could come out and hang a bit. I want fireballs from bob and he wants a cherry pie.

I made some bubble with jig yesterday. posted in my journal. now I want a 20gl machine. LOL
 
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
I know some about the 730nm Infrared but not enough to quench my curiosity of learning more. SomeGuy, please share with me and others what you know about this 730nm and how it could have changed your depicted outcome in the above photos in regards to timing?
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I missed this so sorry for the delayed response. I know what positivity has shared. Essentially the zap of 730nm for 5 minutes after lights out give them more rest time and speeds up the time it takes for flowers to start setting. I was pondering this last night and realized that even with the hps bulb you get 5min of glow after its off. LED just shut off w no glow.... My next deal is going to be to build some 730 nm pontoons. I am thinking with these I am going to add some far red and put them in-between the three led bars in the 4x4 tent.

as a side note. They just seem to be in a growing burst right now. its like they are in week five not six. So things are taking longer but the buds are gaining size rapidly and are very dense.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
A few years ago, I came up with this same thing and was afraid everyone would think I'm crazy if I let them know my idea. Since then, I've heard many others come up with the same idea independently. It's good to know I'm not crazy.

Yes, the dim glow of HPS after turning off could play a large role in its success.

SomeGuy said:
I was pondering this last night and realized that even with the hps bulb you get 5min of glow after its off. LED just shut off w no glow....
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SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
A few years ago, I came up with this same thing and was afraid everyone would think I'm crazy if I let them know my idea. Since then, I've heard many others come up with the same idea independently. It's good to know I'm not crazy.

Yes, the dim glow of HPS after turning off could play a large role in its success.
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No you are not nutz. :-) I use and think about light alot being as its my specialty. However.. I use lighting for other purposes than growing. Putting myself in the plants shoes I realized it might be nice to have a little glow rather than an abrupt OFF. LOL Then I thought well... certainly the glow has its own spectrum output since when you dim any light it changes the CT across the dimming curve. Maybe the HPS glow is close enough to the far red to help initiate flowers?? I see no deficiencies in the led vs using hps other than the onset of flowering and I think that can be easily remedied.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
SomeGuy said:
I missed this so sorry for the delayed response. I know what positivity has shared. Essentially the zap of 730nm for 5 minutes after lights out give them more rest time and speeds up the time it takes for flowers to start setting. I was pondering this last night and realized that even with the hps bulb you get 5min of glow after its off. LED just shut off w no glow.... My next deal is going to be to build some 730 nm pontoons. I am thinking with these I am going to add some far red and put them in-between the three led bars in the 4x4 tent.

as a side note. They just seem to be in a growing burst right now. its like they are in week five not six. So things are taking longer but the buds are gaining size rapidly and are very dense.
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So are infrared LEDs ideal for initializing the flowering transition from vegetation or do they do more? My impression of your description leads me to think that you use the infrareds for like a week tops and then you ditch em' after you can tell the plant is definitely budding.

Is there a use for these infrareds after the first week of flowering?
 
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
I would continue to use them IMO. My understanding is it puts the plants to sleep faster giving them more true dark time (rest time). I also am to understand to only do it at lights out. If you do it before lights on and lights out is apparently induces alot of stretch.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
SomeGuy said:
I would continue to use them IMO. My understanding is it puts the plants to sleep faster giving them more true dark time (rest time). I also am to understand to only do it at lights out. If you do it before lights on and lights out is apparently induces alot of stretch.
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I'll try the 5-15minute after dark method. I think my timers run on 15min intervals. I should have some of Steve's LEDs by the end of the week. I'll post results; only time will tell with whether it increases or decreases average flowering times.

I've seen in some posts that indicas take longer with infrared while their counterparts, sativas, bud sooner. Much trial and error, with public records, amongst the community here will provide us with a clear understanding of the matter in multiple scenarios.

bongsmilie
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
One thing people with 730nm leds will agree on is that they cause crazy stretch if on during the day.

The results there have been fairly consistent.

I've also tested pulsing 730nm periodically throughout the night to see if it would inhibit flowering, and it actually did. It caused a crazy amount of stretch, and did not start flowering. From this, I concluded that while 730nm lowers Pfr/Ptot , it doesn't lower it all the way, but only to about 0.05. In order to get to 0, it needs darkness.

In other words, don't try anything funny. Just use the 730nm after lights out. Not before, not throughout the night, not on right before lights on, but only after lights out.
 
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
That is exactly what I found reading. I do feel it is a critical piece of led growing though. this and far red supplement help speed it up I think. Makes sense to me... The CT in fall outdoors it is more red.
 
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