Diagnose my Plants

Medium - Soil w/Perlite & Vermiculite.
Nutes - H&G Soil.
pH - 6.2-6.7.
Type - Various (from seed).
Temps - 25-30C

Plants have looked pretty much just like this for the past 3 weeks. Not grown an inch.

How often do u water them

Look hungry if they got too dry u may have an issue there as well

Top half: Overwatering locking out P, K, and Mg, possibly with combined underfeeding.

Bottom half: Underfed.

I'm wondering if you move the light away a little, you can get the plant to stretch a little.

jucee said:

I'm wondering if you move the light away a little, you can get the plant to stretch a little.

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That would be what would happen.

over nuted.. cold looking and over watered

vermiculite like many peats and mosses holds water

hence nutes too

leading to obvious nute burn...like this ^^^

change soil to a gritty organic mix like fox farm with 50% perlite or river sand

will delay harvest but you will get some

good luck

I don't see any nute burn. All I see is starving plants. If they are being fed yet still look like that after 3 weeks then I'd suspect problems with the roots. Rot maybe but fungus gnats are another possibility I would investigate. They chew off all the root hairs and the plant first shows deficiency symptoms then will keep ailing and dry out once damage is severe enough to prevent it from getting water through the roots.

You need about a 30x scope to check for gnat larva. Less if you got good eyes. You can put a bit of soil from about 2" down on a light surface and drip some water on to spread it out enough so things can swim in it then examine the puddle. What I do is get a tsp from 2" down and put that in a shot glass with some water and stir it up good then fill to the brim with water. Then take a piece of paper towel and lay it over the top so it picks up whatever is on the surface. Lay that over and take the scope to it. You're looking for a tiny translucent thin-maggot looking thing with two dark spots at one end which are the eyes. Get some yellow sticky traps to stick in a couple of pots to see if you catch any adults. A real small, thin-bodied black or brown fly.

Another possibility along the same line is root aphids. Not sure if you can find them the same way but I think so. I've never had those but have had gnats a few times.

They often come from bags of potting soil etc fresh from the store. Soilless mixes can carry them too as they will lay their eggs in any hole they find in any grow mix. I inspect each bag as I open it before it gets used.

So store all bags of such materials far away from your grow space and if you find it is gnats stick those traps in each pot to knock out the adults before they can mate and lay more eggs in the pots. Can foliar feed some 1/10th strength nutes to help them keep going until the larva population dwindles and new roots grow to let them feed normally. They look like they need life support and that's it.

Good luck!

Those are over fed and over watered. I suspect something with high P and K.

Thanks guys, but..

They're not starving. I repotted them into soil that already has nutes in it. I used to grow with just plain water in this soil and the plants were still happy.

I tried using only perlite but it didn't make any difference, so I switched back to vermiculite.

Definitely not over-watered. I forget to water sometimes.

I do have fungus gnats, but thanks to mosquito dunks they're basically gone. Never really had a problem with them, though.

Took out the plants and the roots look good, as far as I can see..

Tried watering with soft water and less nutes and switched nutes on some..

Still have no idea what's going on..

You wouldn't see gnat damage just looking at the roots. Need a soil sample and 30x power or so to actually see the gnat larva. I've had gnats 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years and seen my plants looking like that until I spread Fungus Gnat Killer Powder on the soil and it got rid of them fine and the plants perked up in a week.

Other than something like that I can see no reason for your plants to be the way they are. You seem to have done everything right otherwise.

Good luck.

ChenBentz said:

Thanks guys, but..

They're not starving. I repotted them into soil that already has nutes in it. I used to grow with just plain water in this soil and the plants were still happy.

I tried using only perlite but it didn't make any difference, so I switched back to vermiculite.

Definitely not over-watered. I forget to water sometimes.

I do have fungus gnats, but thanks to mosquito dunks they're basically gone. Never really had a problem with them, though.

Took out the plants and the roots look good, as far as I can see..

Tried watering with soft water and less nutes and switched nutes on some..

Still have no idea what's going on..

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You cant have fungus gnats if they are not over watered. If you got gnats, they are over watered. The best remedy is sand or mulch in the pots to interrupt the breeding cycle.

I'm starting to think you guys are right.

I'm watering the plants and they're simply not drinking any of it.

It's got to be a problem with the roots, right?

Could fungus gnats really cause THIS much damage, even when there aren't that many of them around anymore?

I'm using Mosquito Dunks and they've definitely killed off the majority.

The reason they started in the first place is because I don't water all my plants on the same day. So, there are always wet plants somewhere and they frolic.

I mean, I changed the medium and there are still larvae? What can I do?

ChenBentz said:

I'm starting to think you guys are right.

I'm watering the plants and they're simply not drinking any of it.

It's got to be a problem with the roots, right?

Could fungus gnats really cause THIS much damage, even when there aren't that many of them around anymore?

I'm using Mosquito Dunks and they've definitely killed off the majority.

The reason they started in the first place is because I don't water all my plants on the same day. So, there are always wet plants somewhere and they frolic.

I mean, I changed the medium and there are still larvae? What can I do?

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Let them dry out to kill them. Let the plants go limp from under watering one time. It wont hurt them.

Put a layer of sand, perlite or mulch a inch or two thick in every pot to rid them.

If you want a top dressing that will kill them off get some diatomaceous earth. Not the kind that's used for pool filters but the kind that used for animal feed. I got a 30 lb bag from the feed store for $30 14 years ago and it's great for getting rid of all sorts of bugs.

Cover the whole surface of the pots completely and then water from the bottom so you don't disturb the DE.

You can put slices of raw potato into the soil and the larva will dig into those so you can spot them. The eggs can lie dormant in dry soil and hatch as soon as it's wet so just letting the soil dry won't get rid of them. I've got the old can of killer powder that I can sprinkle on the soil as a last resort. The plant doesn't take it up but I'd prefer not to use it.

I have been known to use cold pressed neem oil added to the watering

then sit back and note the suckers(gnats) choking on it ....lol

its systemic too, thus making life for critters

that suck like aphids, difficult

good luck

Tried letting the soil dry - didn't work.

Can't water from the bottom because the roots haven't reached that far down.

The fungus gnats are pretty much gone, AFAIK.

The issue now is - are the roots so damaged that they can't intake nutes anymore?

Though, if that were the case, wouldn't they also be wilting because they couldn't intake water either?

So, they're taking up water but no nutes?

Damn, sounds like a pH issue again, but it can't be.

I never tried a neem drench vostok. Sounds like a decent thing to try next time.

It got rid of the mites and thrips from the plant I brought in from outside the fall before this one. Big bushy thing it was too and took about 1200mls of neem, Safer's soap and warm water to soak it down good each of 4 times. Never saw bugs after that. Lots of dripping into the pot too.

Here she is after her treatment in the shop.

ChenBentz said:

Tried letting the soil dry - didn't work.

Can't water from the bottom because the roots haven't reached that far down.

The fungus gnats are pretty much gone, AFAIK.

The issue now is - are the roots so damaged that they can't intake nutes anymore?

Though, if that were the case, wouldn't they also be wilting because they couldn't intake water either?

So, they're taking up water but no nutes?

Damn, sounds like a pH issue again, but it can't be.

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Strange stuff going on ChenBentz for sure but it's got to be something with the roots and I still suspect damage by gnats or root aphids.

Roots don't have to reach the bottom of the pots to bottom water. The water soaks it's way all to the top of the pot if there is water in the tray for it to absorb. When I had gnats I'd water about 75% of what I knew it took to saturate the whole pot. That way the top couple inches would stay dry and make it harder for gnats to get in or out.

If it is root damage by gnats the fine hairs at the tips of the roots are eaten away and then the roots can't absorb the nutrients properly but can still absorb water. As the damage progresses they eventually can't absorb enough water. Lower light levels can help when plants are ailing so they aren't fighting to grow and can put what little energy they have into healing.

If the gnats or whatever are all dead then it will take a week or so for new roots to begin to grow out and the plants begin to show signs of recovery. 1/4 strength nutes and lower light levels, but the same hours of light, will aid in their recovery.